Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Preleases running out of Promos

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There's not need to award "better/lucky" players more boosters at a pre-release at the expense of the "lesser/unlucky" players.

I'm not convinced that awarding boosters for topX (like in the WOTC days and early TPCi days) at a pre-release accomplishes any great good. It's makes a lucky-few happy, but the masses are still less-satisfied, especially if prices are raised to award those lucky-few.

Status quo, in this case, is just fine with me, and the majority.
 
Pokepop is from Ontario? And all the other PTO's and players posting about it on the threads other than you? :thumb: Kudos if you helped pioneer it, but it doesn't sound like you're alone.Not to my knowledge he isn't. I was saying that after I was a PTO for a while, we started doing that up here - I happened to start it up in Ontario (but not necessarily EVERYWHERE). EDIT: I'm not that egotistical to suggest that the idea was wholely mine, and mine alone.



The shouldn't this have been something you broached yourself? As in your first post here or in your related topic? Did I just miss it? :eek: Think of the useful arguments you could have presented with this as a basis... instead of having it come up how many posts and days later? Broached what? That prereleases are now 3 rounds up here? So what? That's old news. I, and quite a few others would like to see a few NEW changes.
You could also inform them of why the main Pre-release isn't like a side event; even if TPCi capitulated to your desires, it simple is unlikely to work. Bigger Prizes don't yield better Pre-Releases. Everyone needs to receive the same reward for playing through the main event to make sure it serves its purpose. Perhaps you should see about organizing regular draft tournaments? Inquire if they are interested in that? perhaps you didn't realize this, but I'm retired. Doesn't mean I cease to have an opinion - I am also still alive, and might just have some interesting experiences to tell. Where'd you think I got all this grey hair? I'm not asking TPCi to capitulate - I'm only asking them to review things and see if some changes CAN be made to improve prereleases, since many people feel the same way. If the suggestions that I posted about that were originally given to me aren't used, then that's ok, just as long as they realize there is a need. Remember - I have absolutely no stake in this. Just the messenger. :wink:



You've made it clear you either don't understand the natural human desire to cheat to win, even at a non-competitive children's card game, or refuse to accept it. Needless to say, I will show you proper respect and tolerate your religious views, but as they conflict not only with my own but with my personal experience as a human (both "from the inside" and from without), this does make it hard for me to take much of what you say at face value. I suspect at least minor embellishment, to be honest. Exaggeration and oversimplification are common bedfellows on message boards, and I myself use them far too often. No, I realize it's out there. I've seen it. However I think I like to see the best in people, if I can. A person doesn't become trustworthy if you never trust them. Naaaa, I'm not sure you would appreciate my religious views, but then again, it is a rather personal thing and really have nothing to do with this discussion.

If this comes across as an insult, then I do apologize. This is an observation, and since I don't know you except from some posts on a single website, I freely confess it is almost certainly incomplete if not flat out wrong. Yet this is our medium of conversation. I need a reference for evaluating the discussion, and this is what I have. No need for apology. I think I know you about as well as you know me, but again, this has nothing to do with the conversation. Let's face it, the written word can be expressive, but nowhere near what a face to face conversation would be like. Words can be mistaken, and even deceive, and as far as I know, no one can read the intentions of another person. I'm willing to take it on faith that you have good intentions if you do the same.

Taking what you said at face value, it doesn't really prove anything beyond what your players perceive, what they think they want. You know how many times I've gotten what I wanted and regretted it later? :rolleyes: If you address the situation in person the way you do here, you really are encouraging such a response. Former players. I'm sure they value their fond memories, just as I do. However our memories and experiences make us who we are, and that's why I'm willing to take a chance in a new direction. Even when a bad decision causes problems we learn something from it. That shouldn't scare us from trying something (relatively) new. Hey, just realize that if TPCi DID happen to change something about the prereleases, and it did happen to turn out crappy in some way - do you think they could NEVER GO BACK? That's the thing about this kind of decision. You can take a chance without irreparable harm.



Can't really agree with your assessment. Your paint laziness where there is understanding. I could play with words as well if you wish: No, not laziness. Not at all. If I had to use a word to describe it the word would be complacency. Things have been going decent for a while and people think that nothing needs to be changed. Most people my age come to know that a lot of things happen that we don't plan - we just fall into it without making a decision at all and then realize that we could have made a difference earlier. That's complacency. We can make a difference, and it CAN be a good thing if people want to TRY.

Your push for improvements is like walking. When you need to reach a goal, be it a location or exercising, walking is good. Sometimes you may need to go faster than walking... but no matter what you don't walk all the time. You don't try to walk while sleeping (barring obvious exceptions :lol:), it isn't really a good idea to insist on walking while eating, either. If you were my surgeon and insisted on performing the operation on a treadmill, you wouldn't be surgeon for much longer! Not sure where you're going with that one, so it's best I just leave it.

Progress is only progress when it is an improvement. The thing is, I believe there is room for progress and that we should push for it, but we need to really identify it first. If we have a player base clamoring for Limited events with Prize Support, let's try and get more than Pre-Releases! Let's see if we can make Limited tournaments a regular thing for Pokemon, with the proper set-design and rarity scheme to make it worth it! I think I am not only already behind that, but beginning to push for it!:thumb: Haven't I already said that? Along with many others, I'd like TPCi to review things - identify where there is room for improvement, and act. There's ALWAYS room for improvement.



Good to hear considering I am giving you another hearty post.

tl;dr: P_A is convinced that adding Prize support will make things better based on the results of side events; I am convinced it will make things worse based on the results of past Pre-Releases that had more Prize support. I find several of his assertions questionable, and everything I know warns me that "progress for the sake of progress" is anything but.

My responses are above. You're only partially right. Yes, I'd like to see a small amount of prize support - very minimal in fact, but I'm willing to concede if there is ANY improvement. Whether we all agree with it being an improvement is to be seen. Chances are good that you can't please everyone, but even minor changes can help.

---------- Post added 08/10/2012 at 12:09 AM ----------

Steve, why would prices need to be raised? Ask any PTO if they have 3 or even 6 boosters left over after an event. I'll bet you 90%+ will say yes. And believe me, any gain in players would definitely more than pay for those few boosters.
 
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went to Pre-release in Blackburn, Melbourne, Australia today.
About 15 people attended and they didn't have any altaria promos or dragon exalted deck boxes.
They did have 5 altaria staff promos.
Instead they gave everyone a set of holo energies and an old deck box (emerging powers).
The top 4 + last place got the altaria staff promos and they also include extra booster packs for the top 3.

Didn't get any good holos or any EX's but still managed to get 2nd place so I was super happy.
 
went to Pre-release in Blackburn, Melbourne, Australia today.
About 15 people attended and they didn't have any altaria promos or dragon exalted deck boxes.
They did have 5 altaria staff promos.
Instead they gave everyone a set of holo energies and an old deck box (emerging powers).
The top 4 + last place got the altaria staff promos and they also include extra booster packs for the top 3.

Didn't get any good holos or any EX's but still managed to get 2nd place so I was super happy.
Now I'm just wondering if I could get your opinion as a player in that event. Was it super competitive? Did you hear of anyone who cheated? Did anyone object to getting any extra boosters because they say they just loved the learning experience or because they were lucky to pull the cards they did? Or how about this: did those winners want the organizer to take any extra boosters back because prereleases are a step between league and Battle Roads? Or do you think those winners would say that everyone should have gotten extra boosters? If not, ..... well then, I suppose I rest my case. :thumb: I figure it's possible (and probably likely) you may not have an answer to these next 2 questions; but do you think that those who didn't place high in the standings (enough to get those few extra boosters) were upset enough to cheat next time to win? And do you think that the ability to win the event (and get a few small prizes) ruined the experience for the mildly competitive, non-competitive or new player?
 
I've actually wished for 6+2 boosters for everyone and the winner would get like 6+4 in prereleases as there are always left over booster packs. At least here.

Prereleases are not only luck it is skill as well. No one would cheat for a booster or two extra in a prerelease. That is just crazy fear mongering to me. Some may be upset that they did not win the extra boosters (I would be), but it is a tournament where you still get boosters cheaply so no complaining imo.

You've always been able to win a prerelease and I always try to do so even if that means thinking about decisions longer than the average person would.

Prereleases imo are not anything less competitive of a tournament as any other. It is a tournament where I go to win. Really if I wanted cards in specific I would just order them online, which is cheaper (in the wrong run because I probably won't pull the cards I want) than a prerelease and guaranteed I get the cards I need.

Sorry that I butted into this discussion, but I think more people answering the better.

Oh yeah I'm a super competitive player/person.
 
One last question kiseki (and I hope you'll answer this honestly if you do answer at all); do you think that now that you came in 2nd at that prerelease and got any extra swag that others didn't .... do you think that now it would cause you to be willing to cheat in some way to continue getting these benefits at other future events (edit: if the same option was again offered)?

EDIT: Thank you Freze, I appreciate the comment. This is a discussion forum, so don't ever feel bad about stating your opinion - even if it ever conflicts with mine. :lol: LOL.

You bring up a good point. People will still try to win their games, and by extension the event as well, whether they are getting something for doing so or not. "Crazy fear mongering" aside (BTW, that's exactly how I feel about it, thanks), on occasion people do still cheat, and I will acknowledge that. However if the vast majority don't (and believe me, I'm crediting well over 99% of the players at prereleases as such good citizens), and PTO's and judging teams are there to watch out for such a thing - JUST LIKE ANY OTHER EVENT, when such a small amount of prize support is available compared to the substantial amount elsewhere in other events, why should this possibly be considered a huge potential problem? My guess is those who post about this are only grasping at straws to endeavor to have a possible objection to an idea that they personally don't agree with due to their own opinions and prejudgisms (not sure if that's a word or not, but you get my point). That is their right to have, and to express, but shouldn't be the basis of sound reasoning and decision making. TPCi needs to sit down and honestly and rationally assess the program and see where improvements can be made, then act. We know people will still try to win their events regardless. Even with no prizes on the line people may cheat - just because they are hyper competitive and feel compelled to do so by their own twisted reasoning. A small change to giving a few packs may not be the cause of problems from people already inclined to do so.

---------- Post added 08/12/2012 at 02:32 PM ----------

....
Seriously, it is a tournament structured so that new players and experienced players will both need time to build a deck and write out a deck list; imagine if it was a regular, constructed event! .....

Re-reading your comment I have to wonder - since when have players at (recent type 2) prereleases you attend have the requirement to fill in decklists? Why would this change with any small changes to the reward system of prereleases? (Just to be fair, getting 2 packs at the end of the prerelease IS a reward system - it rewards those who finish the event.)
 
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---------- Post added 08/12/2012 at 02:32 PM ----------



Re-reading your comment I have to wonder - since when have players at (recent type 2) prereleases you attend have the requirement to fill in decklists? Why would this change with any small changes to the reward system of prereleases? (Just to be fair, getting 2 packs at the end of the prerelease IS a reward system - it rewards those who finish the event.)

:rolleyes:

Okay, so I had a lapse and was totally thinking... do I have to call it old-school when it isn't that old? If it helps, sometimes I forget the first turn rules as well if I am not careful... including starting to use a different game's set up even though half the games I played other than Pokemon were discontinued a few years ago. :lol:

Based on your last few questions, you'll be happy to know I don't plan on debating the issue with you anymore.
 
:confused::redface: Honestly, .... Why would that make me happy? I certainly don't feel I've won anything. I had no stake in the discussion, yet continued over some poorly reasoned excuses or opinions from others. If no one feels compelled to explain their reasoning to properly refute evidence that seems to be supported from my standpoint, that doesn't make my assertions right or wrong anyway. It just means that there is ROOM for debate, and/or they don't feel the need to come off the sidelines to post. And just because 'Pop feels it important to point out that "changes to the PR structure that have zero chance of happening," doesn't mean it can't be discussed. Or for that matter it also doesn't mean that TPCi will never discuss the current structure of the prereleases and change things. I just hope that my standing up for a cause - whether you personally believe in it or not, spur you to do the same one day, and I hope that I've given people a reason to question, and to think twice.

I may not be a popular guy, a softspoken guy, a tactful guy, even a likeable guy for some, but I try to always speak the truth. Nor do I attack a person or their suggestions or words with malice. That disposition and stance by me may not sit well with some people, and I apologize if I offend, but that doesn't mean that my words/questions/suggestions are any less valid. Good luck to you Otaku, and thank you for your posts in this and other threads, since I found them insightful even if I didn't always agree.
 
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