Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Preliminary Grades and Voter Input (Division 5)

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Drrty Byl vs Yellowlob

I think that these lists earn about the same score in the "deck" category. There's a glaring flaw in Drrty Byl's - only 1 Night Maintenance alongside only 3 Empoleon. With that come-into-play power being a big focus in the deck, you need a Night Maintenance on hand when the first Empoleon goes down so you can shuffle the line back in, and playing just one really limits the potential do to so. And there's a glaring flaw in Yellowlob's list - no Energy Pickup, plus, he plays only 3 Roseanne's and 2 Buck's Training. One more of each (perhaps two more Buck's, here) would make the tie a lot clearer. As it stands, I'd either put Drrty Byl one point ahead or tie them up at 8.

Yellowlob gets a good creativity score, while I honestly feel that Drrty Byl should get a 2 or even a 1. All he's got is an Empoleon line, a Claydol line, and a tech Metagross, which doesn't add anything to the strategy of the deck. Sure, it's helpful given Empoleon's low damage output, but it shouldn't go towards creativity. 2/5 is probably a fairer score, since there wasn't much you could do with Empoleon to begin with. ;/ Yellowlob's Magnezone line, which allows him to retreat really easily (EXTREMELY helpful given that Empoleon's power only works when you evolve the Active Pokemon), gets him some big points. The 1-1 Ariados on top of that (which Magnezone gets around) isn't worth a perfect score, but I think 4/5 would be fitting. 3 at the absolute least.

Yellowlob gets the edge in card use because Magnezone lets you get Prinplups into the active, so Empoleon's power is abused more thoroughly. Probably only one point difference here. His opponent has Buck's and Magnezone, but he's not capitalizing or facilitating any part of Empoleon's text.

Drrty Byl (8/2/2): 12
Yellowlob (7-8/4/3): 14-15

Pidgeotto Trainer vs BloodDraek

Deck: Pidgeotto Trainer's list isn't great. His focus on Empoleon's first attack means that no Energy Pickup isn't too deadly a mistake. No shuffle draw is a small deduction, same with no switchers. No Buck's is okay because of Cresselia Lv X/Unown P. There's this feeling I get looking at the list, though, that it's merely average. 8/10 on the nose. BloodDraek's has deadlier mistakes - no straight draw at all (unless you count Speed Stadium, which is flippy and helps your opponent just as much as it helps you), and only 1 Night Maintenance with 3 Empoleon SF. 7/10.

Creativity: I think Pidgeotto gets another one-point victory, here. Cresselia/Unown P is a really unique way to take Buck's Training out of the list and provide viability to Empoleon's first attack. Just like with Drrty Byl's list earlier, Palkia Lv X doesn't do much to help the creativity score; it's just gusting The most creative part of BloodDraek's list is the MD Empoleon, which takes away just as many points as it adds (because evolving into MD Empoleon means that you just lost the opportunity to lock their energy).

Card Use: I'm going to call this one even at three. PT has got 4 of the ingredient and Cresselia helps abuse the first attack, which BloodDraek isn't doing too much with. But the secondary effect of Palkia X's power - that your opponent gets a gust as well - combined with the 4 Switch, means that it will be easier for BloodDraek to get off the power than it will be for his opponent (even though Pidgeotto Trainer has those Unown Qs).

Pidgeotto Trainer: (8/3/3): 14
BloodDraek: (7/2-3/3): 12-13

Winners: Yellowlob, Pidgeotto Trainer
 
FINAL VERDICT: Drrty Byl VS Yellowlob

Lists: Drrty Byl's is better, but in hindsight, it wasn't "that" much better.

My opinions on creativity and card use have not changed, despite the swarm of new opinions.

WINNER: Yellowlob. Great job, guys.
 
Pidgeotto Trainer said:
Btw, btw, because the power is so broken, I would not play less than 4 of the SF one.
Click to expand...

Wait, so you are saying that even though you are playing 4 SSU and 3 Night Maintenance you need to play 4 of the SF one. If you could use the power on bench I would understand but really I think 4 is redundant if you can only use it while active
 
We'll throw consistency in a lockbox and get rid of the key..

I think the issue with this particular ingredient challenge was that it was difficult to decide what to pair with Empoleon SF for a creative AND consistent strategy. With the current trainer/pokemon engine, there isn't much in the format to quickly and consistently evolve multiple stage 2s (as in the case of Yellowlob's 'Zone X list), nor is there a way to reliably get out a basic Lv.X AND an Empoleon with any speed. A more creative list almost certainly meant a stretched trainer line at the sacrifice of speed and consistency. In the real world, when the choice is between a fancy deck and something else that works consistently, I'll go with speed and reliability any day.

Good job Yellowlob
 
Every time you use the power is good. Using the power 6 times instead of 5 for example can still be game winning. I definitely do not think you can use the power too much. I expect to use the power at least 6 times besides SSU, always as the active obv and always as my new attacker after a ko. If they ko chatot etc., then 5 times besides SSU. The extra NM is to throw in a potentially extra power at the end via retreat, so maybe 6-7 times besides SSU. Maybe this is too a little too ideal, but I'm certainly setup better to use the power a couple times more with 4 SF 3 NM vs 3 SF 1 NM and that can be a huge difference.
Even if I cut to 3, I would never want to evolve to a different Empoleon, unless I changed the deck to focus on MD Empoleon. Each does net 60 with the first attack, and SF sets them back in damage (with the power), sometimes by a lot. The 2nd attacks are both much slower now, but even then if MD Empoleon has a slight edge, it's made up for the turn behind SF Empoleon makes your opponent.
So since I'll never want to evolve to a non SF Empoleon, I might as well play 4. The 4th I think would add more than an Emp x would too. (and that would be non Metal which is slightly annoying).

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That was a response to BloodDraek btw

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I notice BloodDraek can combo with MD Empoleon better than my list since he has Palkia. Except the ingredient to combo with here was SF Empoleon, not MD Empoleon... Palkia really only combos well with MD Empoleon.
 
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Pidgeotto Trainer said:
Every time you use the power is good. Using the power 6 times instead of 5 for example can still be game winning. I definitely do not think you can use the power too much. I expect to use the power at least 6 times besides SSU, always as the active obv and always as my new attacker after a ko. If they ko chatot etc., then 5 times besides SSU. The extra NM is to throw in a potentially extra power at the end via retreat, so maybe 6-7 times besides SSU. Maybe this is too a little too ideal, but I'm certainly setup better to use the power a couple times more with 4 SF 3 NM vs 3 SF 1 NM and that can be a huge difference.
Even if I cut to 3, I would never want to evolve to a different Empoleon, unless I changed the deck to focus on MD Empoleon. Each does net 60 with the first attack, and SF sets them back in damage (with the power), sometimes by a lot. The 2nd attacks are both much slower now, but even then if MD Empoleon has a slight edge, it's made up for the turn behind SF Empoleon makes your opponent.
So since I'll never want to evolve to a non SF Empoleon, I might as well play 4. The 4th I think would add more than an Emp x would too. (and that would be non Metal which is slightly annoying).

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That was a response to BloodDraek btw

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

I notice BloodDraek can combo with MD Empoleon better than my list since he has Palkia. Except the ingredient to combo with here was SF Empoleon, not MD Empoleon... Palkia really only combos well with MD Empoleon.
Click to expand...

ya I do realize that I shoulda probably added another Night Maintenance from my experience with empoleon in states but really since Empoleon SF is going to die not very often, a missed energy drop isn't going to matter as much.

and I think palkia Lv.X is pretty awesome with empoleon SF. It makes his 2nd attack an ER2. I just chose to put in an empoleon MD over a 4th empo SF because I don't think the SF empoleon does enough even when it is reducing 30-40 or disrupting energy attachments. Empoleon MD can damage the opponent's pokemon to make it easier to pull KOs with steel wing as well as deal really heavy damage with surf together.

And I really think that you shoulda dropped a 3rd Night maintenance for at least 1 warp point Ross. I mean your list is awesome but accelerating your cres Lv. Ups to get them out faster with 1-2 warp pints would be really good. Also you could get Empoleon's power in more frequent turns without retreating 2 (or 1 with unown Q).
 
Both of your arguments in that last post mentioned the 3 energy attacks, which will be far less important IMO with no acceleration in these decks. (You mentioned Dual Splash as well-but that's hardly more powerful than Emp SF+power ).NO deck last season survived on 3 individual energy attachments. It is quite simply why GG has gone from most broken thing ever to an afterthought, just those extra energy attachments needed, even 1 more. Unless we added acceleration, you almost have to focus on the 2 energy attacks especially since for Emp SF, it gains no net damage with an entire more attachment (most importantly one less for the next Emp. This is a swarm deck.) Sure they'll get used in spots, but they're too slow to focus on. This is why my deck is mostly focused on the first attack, though yours is hardly focused on that at all.

3 NM can be questioned. Again, I was looking to get an extra Emp power late game, and that can win games. (I say in my write up-how many times have you known you would lose next turn no matter what EXCEPT for the off-chance they didn't have energy in hand, now you can force it). For that endgame Emp switching, I probably wouldn't bring up a damaged one again, so the energy can be thrown away. Early on, I'm just going to leave every Emp up until it dies (except for SSUs). You could switch/Warp Point and get another power in quicker, but that won't add more times using the power over the course of the game. (SSU does so it's worth playing). So I don't plan to retreat/switch emps until the end. 1 Warp Point could randomly win games once in a while, but I had a strategy in mind for the third NM. Switch/Warp does make more sense if you're trying to use the power and attack with something else, but I chose to attack with SF Emp as well.

I enjoy this competitive banter btw. Good luck to you.

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One more thing I realized, the use of SSU itself is another reason why we need to focus on the 2 energy attacks much more so than the 3s.

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SSUs put us back in energy drops as well.
 
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Pidgeotto Trainer said:
Both of your arguments in that last post mentioned the 3 energy attacks, which will be far less important IMO with no acceleration in these decks. (You mentioned Dual Splash as well-but that's hardly more powerful than Emp SF+power ).NO deck last season survived on 3 individual energy attachments. It is quite simply why GG has gone from most broken thing ever to an afterthought, just those extra energy attachments needed, even 1 more. Unless we added acceleration, you almost have to focus on the 2 energy attacks especially since for Emp SF, it gains no net damage with an entire more attachment (most importantly one less for the next Emp. This is a swarm deck.) Sure they'll get used in spots, but they're too slow to focus on. This is why my deck is mostly focused on the first attack, though yours is hardly focused on that at all.

3 NM can be questioned. Again, I was looking to get an extra Emp power late game, and that can win games. (I say in my write up-how many times have you known you would lose next turn no matter what EXCEPT for the off-chance they didn't have energy in hand, now you can force it). For that endgame Emp switching, I probably wouldn't bring up a damaged one again, so the energy can be thrown away. Early on, I'm just going to leave every Emp up until it dies (except for SSUs). You could switch/Warp Point and get another power in quicker, but that won't add more times using the power over the course of the game. (SSU does so it's worth playing). So I don't plan to retreat/switch emps until the end. 1 Warp Point could randomly win games once in a while, but I had a strategy in mind for the third NM. Switch/Warp does make more sense if you're trying to use the power and attack with something else, but I chose to attack with SF Emp as well.

I enjoy this competitive banter btw. Good luck to you.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

One more thing I realized, the use of SSU itself is another reason why we need to focus on the 2 energy attacks much more so than the 3s.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

SSUs put us back in energy drops as well.
Click to expand...

I think with all the slowing the opponent down that my list does with bringing up their claydols with Palkia X and denying them energy attachments the 3 energy attack wouldn't be so bad.

even though i think palkia X would be good with empoleon, (ER2 yay) I really can't argue the voter inputs, you most likely will win this one PT. so once everything is officially settled good luck to you in top 16 and beyond
 
FINAL VERDICT: Pidgeotto Trainer VS BloodDraek

Lists: Both of these lists are good, but have their own issues.

PT seems a bit lacking in the good crutching/switching department, but a good list nonetheless. 8/10, but desired a little more search.

Draek's draw was very, very low, but his crutching and switching were superb. 8/10.

Creativity: 3/5 for Pidgeotto Trainer, and 2/5 for BloodDraek. With PT, he has been able to effectively slip the Cresselia into the deck as something relevant, functional, and reliable. With BloodDraek, he has been abe to do the same with Palkia...But to a lesser degree.

The creations here are both intriguing, but I see more in the Cresselia sideline.

Card use: 4/5 for both. They both have nice sideline supporters, and both are relevant to Empoleon...But I don't see a lot that's too overwhelming here.

WINNER: Pidgeotto Trainer
 
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