Prize Increase for States!

[z-man]

Thoughtful reply, z-man. Thanks for contributing. It does help me better see the other side, but it's still an issue that could go either way. It's certainly not equal, but I can't quite get to calling it unfair. Fairness is subjective once you weigh the many factors. Like in your math test, part of the issue is getting the Junior division to show up for the math test in the first place. That's what the increase is trying to address.

Think of it this way: last year it was equal, with $300 for each division. That was fine, Masters played the game, everyone was happy. Now Juniors and Seniors get $200 more, and suddenly $300 isn't good enough for Masters. That's what I'm having trouble with. You do acknowledge it's a feeling....but because of those feelings, P!P can never increase the Juniors and Seniors without upsetting the Masters? I would say that's unfair to Dave who has to make his budget work year after year and meet his goals.

The issue isn't just that this is an unfair decision, as Ryan pointed out. That's only part of it. My post was mostly a response to FSULugia... who almost directly agreed that this decision was unfair, so I want off on that when addressing him.

I agree that fairness is subjective. We can take two unequal situations and try to posit reasons for the inequality all we like. Even so the fact of the matter is that the two camps (J/S and masters) are being treated unequally. In the math example, we can go for days talking about how the two divisions pay more than eachother. For example, to prepare, senior math test takers probably had to buy more expensive books. Like I said, we can go for quite a while talking about that and come to no real conclusion.

If TPCi's goal is to make parents' lives easier, wouldn't it be better to give extra if the winner was a minor? I think we'd all understand that better and most of us would be okay with it. The decision would seem less unfair and more alligned with what you're saying. I would hope that if this is truly TPCi's goal, they'd make the shift sooner rather than later.


I don't think anyone is unhappy with $300 travel stipends. What we're unhappy with is seeing the creation of an inequality for reasons that we can't all get behind. If the change were in the other direction (which I think we saw in ECC), I'd certainly be just as upset. Most posters... probably not. An issue stings most when its targeted towards you. If, at work, all of your coworkers openly got a raise, but you didn't, it'd sting a little bit... especially if your boss told you that you all did equally well. Your old salary was nice and you're still happy with it, but seeing everyone else receive more than you for very little justifiable reason would definitely sting. If your boss informs you that you're already working really hard, but they want to encourage everyone else to work harder as justification for the raise, that'd be even worse. We'll all get over these changes eventually, but we will definitely have a bitter taste in our mouths.

TPCi can certainly increase J/S prizes without upsetting masters! I'd love it if they do. They should equally up prizes for masters, though, to keep with the spirit of equal competition. Is it unfair to Dave? I don't think so. As far as I know, Dave (and the rest of TPCi) have done a good job with the budget (they've kept it balanced for years... which is no small feat), but I (and a few others) feel they could have reallocated money to better fit their goals. Obviously, none of us know everything that Dave and TPCi know, but from our limited point of view (and given the listed goals that they had), we are unhappy with where the extra money is going. If our only responses were "the budget it stupid. TPCi is stupid", that'd be cause for dismissal. Most posters are responding because they care and they're concerned, however. We all want to see the game improve. Many of us feel that this decision is moving in the wrong direction for the future of Masters.

 

[psychup2034]

Think of it this way: last year it was equal, with $300 for each division. That was fine, Masters played the game, everyone was happy. Now Juniors and Seniors get $200 more, and suddenly $300 isn't good enough for Masters.

You're completely misunderstanding the other side of the argument. The masters who are unhappy about this decision aren't unhappy because they're getting $300. They're unhappy about being treated inequitably.

Let's assume that (a generic) you get paid $90,000 a year. $90,000 is a pretty damn good salary. It's almost twice the median income of American 4-person families. Let's assume that given your education/background/experiences/skills, you're very happy with your $90,000 salary.

However, let's say that there are 3 people in your group at work. You guys pretty much do the same job, but you work on different projects. Come time for annual review, you find out that your two coworkers got raises so that they now make $120,000, but you still make $90,000. You feel like this is unfair, because you work just as hard as your other two coworkers (if not harder), so you go to your boss. Your boss tells you, "Look, we know you go a good job, but we're using our compensation policies to increase the retention of those employees that are most difficult to retain." How does that make you feel? You work just as hard those other two people, but our company is essentially bribing them to stay, even though you've been harder-working and more loyal. (Do you know why most companies that stagger compensation rates do so based on merit or length of employment? Because they want to reward their employees for hard work and loyalty. Companies generally do not want to penalize and disrespect their most loyal employees.)

Furthermore, let's say that your boss tells you, "Look, you were happy with $90,000 last year, why aren't you happy with the same amount this year?" If you can honestly tell me that you wouldn't feel slighted by this response, and even a little angry, then you do not exhibit normal human emotions. Normal people would feel like their boss is being a huge jerk. That's how most Masters players feel about TPCi after we learned about this decision.

Many players in the Masters division feel like they're being disrespected by TPCi. That's the issue here. Many of the company's most loyal customers feel disrespected by TPCi, and they're angry about it.

 

[FSULugia]

1. So you agree this decision isn't fair? Last I checked, nobody likes feeling like they're being treated unfairly. As players, we love the game of Pokemon, but many of us feel like TPCi is treating its masters unfairly. If nothing else, can you understand why we're unhappy with the changes? Even if it is a facade of unfairness, can you see that we feel like this change is unfair? Given time, many of us will accept the changes and move on. When asked, though, we will always have a bitter taste in our mouths because of this change.

2. Your Chrismas analogy isn't exactly great. We aren't given prizes... we earn the prizes. The prizes are set out as a bar to reach. If you can reach that bar, you get free stuff. I'd like to provide a different analogy to show you where I'm coming from. Imagine we're all students taking a math test. The test is setup in two categories: junior and senior mathematics. Junior math is for anyone in 8th grade or lower, and senior math is for anyone 9th-12th grade. Senior math has harder questions and more people taking the test. Our goal as test takers is to get a higher score than everyone else. The system in charge decided to give the junior test a $100 cash prize, but they only gave the senior test a $60 prize. Theoretically, we are achieving the same thing, regardless of which division we're in, so why reward one achievement over another? Moreover, the senior test is actually demonstrably more difficult. Even so, they get less for achieving the same thing as the juniors. In my opinion, equal achievements should provide equal rewards... especially when all the rewards are coming from the same place.

3. Parents do do a lot of the work for their children. Why is it that a parent of a 14 year old (senior)and a parent of a 15 year old (master) should get different compensation? This seems like an arbitrary line. If that's their goal, they should make it $300 ($500 for 17 and younger). They require a parent be present when picking up the stipends for a minor, so that's a fairly easy explanation to give. As an 18 year old, I don't need a parent to pick up my stipend, so if my parent decides to go to nats, its on their own accord. Making parents' lives easier pretty clearly isn't the primary goal, or they'd make the line less arbitrary.

4. We all play the game. some of us play the game enough to get well enough to compete (and win) at states. Compared to other games TCGs, Pokemon prize support sucks. And yet we all still play. That pretty clearly isn't the real issue, or else many of us posting here would go play Magic exclusively. The real issue is that TPCi is favoring an audience outside of its core audience. Professor_Dav has been very clear that the purposes of the prize change is to increase popularity of the juniors and seniors divisions. That's a goal that we can all get behind! Many of us feel that this is going about it the wrong way while the money could be better spent either increasing prizes for everyone (including the core audience) or making the game more popular in other ways. We can all agree that Professor_Dav's intent is pure.

5. Let's try to be mature here, I agree. We should all avoid name calling and the negative words towards each other. I'd agree that this isn't "punching us in the mouth"... more along the lines of "alienating [the] largest division" (~ Ness). Being told that you earned less than another person who accomplished the exact same thing as you is not fun... no matter who you are. It may be a minor thing, and it may only affect 1 person per states, but it is still there. IMO, TPCi should set the bar equally for everyone so that nobody feels left out or less than the other divisions.

Its unfair since your not benefiting from it. Not every decision TPCi is going to benefit you. If your jealous that a bunch of kids are getting something that your not getting, that is your own personal problem.

Your math example is bad since math test arent a product that people are selling. TPCi wants younger people to play their game, there for they are offering them something more than older people. I dont see what is so hard to understand about that. I use the christmas example since older people usually dont care about getting gifts as much as children and to show you this point of view that things that old people dont care about are more cared about my children.

Its not equal but I feel there is a reason why its not equal and its barely much of a difference to really matter so why even care? TPCi obviously picked this decision because they felt it would best benefit their company. They arent that dumb when it comes to making money and thats the reason they did it for.

Another thing that bothers me is how everyone in the game has to be so melodramatic and having a pity party about it. Not everything in life is going to be equal, especially what happens in one of the less serious card games (competitively) on the market. I yet to see a single person this thread actually feel happy for the younger group, every post is just people complaining about how they are getting cheated. Seriously, (not saying this directly to you but everyone with this attitude), try feeling good about someone sides yourself for a change. Your not the only person playing this game. I know that your down because of the company not giving you more prizes, but I'm sure they are working on it. They could have taken away prizes and actually gave you a reason to complain, but instead they left everything unchanged in masters. So what really is the big deal?

 

[FirestormXVI]

Offer an award that would cover a child and guardian's travel ($500 seems reasonable), but also extend that same increase to the Masters division. Just because someone can travel alone doesn't mean they should be entitled to less of an award.

Price of cards: up, up, up.
Attendance at events: up, up, up.

The money is there for TPCi. It just isn't used wisely.

Organized Play is not the entirety of TPCi. Dave Schwimmer has repeatedly posted here that Organized Play's budget does not change regardless of how well OP is doing or the TCG as a whole is doing.

Your first paragraph is just ridiculous.

$300 for 1 person = $300 each
$500 for 2 people = $250 each

These are supposed to be travel stipends. Not everybody lives within driving range of Indianapolis or Toronto. It would cost a Junior + Parent where I live $1100 to get to Nationals which is essential to getting an invite to Worlds unless we go through the grinder because there's a grand total of maybe 9 premier events in the entire season in our province. Some of you might have City Marathons with more events than that.

What I disagree with is Masters who are still minors not receiving the extra stipend. Masters starts younger than it should IMO and they still need that extra money but can't have it. A 16 year old cannot check into a hotel by him/herself. You'd have to be an incredibly supportive parent to spend $800 out of pocket along with time off for a children's card game tournament. $250 on the other hand is much more manageable for those of us over 18.

So this would be what I'd want:

1st: $300 Travel Stipend with additional $300 if winner is under 18.

 

[psychup2034]

Its unfair since your not benefiting from it.

Unfair may not be the best word to describe the situation, although it's certainly appropriate. Inequitable and disrespectful better encapsulate the feelings that many Masters players have toward this decisions.

For me, there are three main concerns with this decision:

• TPCi is slighting the most loyal and largest segment of the market of competitive players. Although the competitive players do not comprise a large amount of the total market for Pokemon cards, history has shown us that it is very difficult for a trading card game without organized play to survive (Harry Potter, Shadowrun, Star Wars, Ani-Mayhem, etc.) While attracting new competitive players is important for the health of the TCG, that does not have to come at the expense of slighting the most loyal and largest group of players.
• TPCi seems to be blindly throwing money at Juniors and Seniors divisions. If they put some thought into how they could retain Junior and Seniors division players, they would have used the extra $200 in order to make the prizes reach farther down (increasing the marginal value of the prize money) instead of giving an additional $200 to the parent whose child is already receiving $300.
• There are so many other (costless) things that TPCi could have done to increase attendance that are being ignored. First, the advertisement space for organized play on the actual booster packs/theme decks is terrible. Someone who bought a Pokemon product would not know about organized play unless they visited the website (very few people actually do that), or read the really fine print (no-one really does that either). Second, the advertising for organized play on the Pokemon website itself is done horrendously. There's absolutely nothing on the home page of www.pokemon.com that would indicate to a parent that they could take their children to organized play.

TPCi is throwing money at the Juniors and Seniors to attempt to increase attendance, but they are not only missing free opportunities to expand organized play through better marketing, they're slighting their most loyal and largest segment of competitive players.

 

[pnoodle5]

It's okay to feel happy for the younger group. People just don't understand why Pokemon made a decision that is adding something to one group while not giving it to another

However... While not having a perfect record, Pokemon is a pretty good business and I assume they are expecting some flak. I agree with Ness that the spread is too top-heavy, a slightly wider spread would be neat... Because Masters struggles from many of the same parental control/responsibility problems (for younger Masters) and the difficulty to compete, because even being so large, the group doesn't have terribly extended prizes.

As for the Christmas/Math Test analogy, you could consider it like a college exam sponsored by a certain college. Fewer people apply to the University of Idaho versus, say Harvard. Each college makes their ow exam but the exam costs money. Since Idaho is less challenging and selective than Harvard, they have to have other ways to entice students vs Harvard, where the prestige alone is much more valuable.

Still, you would think bigger colleges can give out bigger scholarships (stipends).
Pokemon has a reason for why they split things, maybe it's just a horrible idea or maybe it's going to completely shock the competitive playerbase.

We should examine past changes and inequalities that may have been considered as effective, and find out why they were "good" or at least "okay" and this isn't.

If there ever was anything like that.

 

[Politoed666]

Its unfair since your not benefiting from it. Not every decision TPCi is going to benefit you. If your jealous that a bunch of kids are getting something that your not getting, that is your own personal problem.

Your posts reek of projected selfishness and ignorance.

Also, *you're.

 

[FSULugia]

Your posts reek of projected selfishness and ignorance.

Also, *you're.

And most of these posts are a bunch of grown men complaining that they arent getting enough prizes playing Pokemon, and that its unfair that little kids are getting more than them, your point? Im grateful that PTCG exist, why do we have to care so much how many dollars or packs that we get? To me it sounds like a bunch of mindless complaining.

Unfair may not be the best word to describe the situation, although it's certainly appropriate. Inequitable and disrespectful better encapsulate the feelings that many Masters players have toward this decisions.

For me, there are three main concerns with this decision:

• TPCi is slighting the most loyal and largest segment of the market of competitive players. Although the competitive players do not comprise a large amount of the total market for Pokemon cards, history has shown us that it is very difficult for a trading card game without organized play to survive (Harry Potter, Shadowrun, Star Wars, Ani-Mayhem, etc.) While attracting new competitive players is important for the health of the TCG, that does not have to come at the expense of slighting the most loyal and largest group of players.
• TPCi seems to be blindly throwing money at Juniors and Seniors divisions. If they put some thought into how they could retain Junior and Seniors division players, they would have used the extra $200 in order to make the prizes reach farther down (increasing the marginal value of the prize money) instead of giving an additional $200 to the parent whose child is already receiving $300.
• There are so many other (costless) things that TPCi could have done to increase attendance that are being ignored. First, the advertisement space for organized play on the actual booster packs/theme decks is terrible. Someone who bought a Pokemon product would not know about organized play unless they visited the website (very few people actually do that), or read the really fine print (no-one really does that either). Second, the advertising for organized play on the Pokemon website itself is done horrendously. There's absolutely nothing on the home page of www.pokemon.com that would indicate to a parent that they could take their children to organized play.

TPCi is throwing money at the Juniors and Seniors to attempt to increase attendance, but they are not only missing free opportunities to expand organized play through better marketing, they're slighting their most loyal and largest segment of competitive players.

Then stop buying, nobody is forcing you to keep buying the product. You dont keep buying something if you dont feel like your getting what your putting into it, thats just common sense. I dont think you should feel entitled to anything just because you buy Pokemon cards and play the game. They arent slighting you, they didnt take away anything. If you dont like that then you dont support them until they change things.

I get your frustration but to go as far as say "disrespectful" is just taking things way too personal.

 

[Electrode]

And most of these posts are a bunch of grown men complaining that they arent getting enough prizes playing Pokemon, and that its unfair that little kids are getting more than them, your point? Im grateful that PTCG exist, why do we have to care so much how many dollars or packs that we get? To me it sounds like a bunch of mindless complaining.

I believe it has more to do with the fact that they're wasting the money on something that won't help their goal (increasing JR/SR attendance) and that it should be put towards better advertising and/or door prizes and such if they want more younger players in the game, and because the increase goes towards only Juniors/Seniors and not Masters under the age of 18.

 

[eriknance]

So tired of seeing this argument... but nonetheless, here we go...

I'm honestly split when this discussion comes up. I remember playing when a Gym Challenge win gave players a full-paid trip to Worlds, a Pre-Release win gave packs and free admission to the next Pre-Release, and a notable performance at Regionals (top 4) gave out a scholarship. Over time, I've seen these resources allocated in different places, most notably to OP internationally. Many players — myself included — were dumbstruck when our "earnings" were taken away. The first year that Gym Challenges disappeared, I nearly quit the game. Not because I was upset, but because the pathway to Worlds felt so disappointingly distant (only top 8 in NA Masters were awarded invitations).

Where did the $$$ go, why did POP dismiss us so? Well, the money went to promote OP internationally, and because of that we now have a much larger representation of competitive play worldwide. We wouldn't have that now if I got my Gym Challenges back then. That's as simple as I can put it. The long-term benefit has outweighed my own temporary gain. Since then, the game has thrived worldwide.

This is very much an analogy to the current situation with Masters. The difference is, as Ryan Vergel has pointed out, the allocation doesn't seem to create any long-term solutions. For international players, the prospect of gaining an invitation to Worlds was alluring. The presence of OP helped create growth in the game, and the word got out. (I personally don't know the numbers behind this assertion, but from my perspective it appears there's finally a pulse in the Pokemon TCG internationally).

This prize increase for Juniors and Seniors, however, doesn't seem to live up to that model. I know quite a few kids from the place I work that are into Pokemon, and nobody's talking about those extra dollars at States. Most don't even know about the State Championships. My feeling is that those who do know about this increase are the ones who are already deep into competitive play. If P!P introduced Gym Challenges again, but only for Juniors and Seniors, I'm sure there would be a lot of growth in that demographic. But then I'm not sure if any Master would be happy with that decision.

From an outisde perspective, it doesn't look like the extra money here is being allocated smartly. But then, that's not my job. I just look forward to P!P placing more focus on their largest and dearest demographic. There are ways to do it without a huge cash allocation. There are creative ways to do it.

One can only hope.

 

[pnoodle5]

I think they're just frustrated because these people put much time and effort in this game. Some people play to win, some people are much more casual, but everyone who plays pokemon does it to have fun... I personally can't say disrespectful as i have not (yet) put so much in the game, but disappointing is true for me.

I'm curious because I've been wondering how much each age group actually ends up purchasing as far as raw card product goes- boosters, tins, and boxes. Pokemon doesn't make money off of the singles that Bob Smith sells on ebay, but they get hype for the good cards they have put in sets so that they can sell more... I just wonder who actually purchases the most product.

I also wonder what the ratio of unique buyers to unique participants would be, in each division.

I'm not trying to sway this discussion in one particular way but I am just curious...

 

[psychup2034]

Then stop buying, nobody is forcing you to keep buying the product. You dont keep buying something if you dont feel like your getting what your putting into it, thats just common sense. I dont think you should feel entitled to anything just because you buy Pokemon cards and play the game. They arent slighting you, they didnt take away anything. If you dont like that then you dont support them until they change things.

It is a well known fact that people do not make money play Pokemon on the TCG side (only a couple have). Not everyone is as ignorantly absolutist as you are. Not buying the product is an extreme form of protest, but there are certainly other ways to voice displeasure without being so absolutist. Posting on the forums about how Masters players feel disrespected is one of those ways.

We don't continue playing the game because of some of TPCi's questionable decisions. We continue to play in spite of them.

 

[ShadowCard]

I understand the equality argument, but it doesn't apply perfectly because the divisions ARE NOT equal. The Junior division can only pull from a pool of smart 7-11 year olds. The Senior division from 12-15 year olds. The Masters division is comprised of a pool of 16 on up. Of course there are going to be way many more of us.

With this in mind, is there actually a problem with Junior and Senior division numbers? They look small in comparison to Masters, but are they shrinking or not growing against their LY, LY2, and maybe even LY3 numbers?

losjackal, you did say that you are newer to the game. A bit of history: Masters will always be skeptical of OP because it is the Masters division that was removed from organized play at one point in the game's history. SD PokeMom, when she isn't busy thanking any posts that support OP decisions, is usually quick to remind us about how WotC tried to crush Pokémon TCG AND that Masters were the focus to accomplish that goal. It started as favoritism towards the younger divisions too.

The leg that OP stood on that it appreciates Masters, so that Masters tolerated the ridicule that it is a children's game both from their friends and OP itself, is that it treated the three age divisions the same.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

I'm tired of players who complain that a "bunch of grown men" complain. If 40 junior's complain no one notices, but when a BUNCH of masters complain, you really need to listen. Most of us Masters all have one thing in common, growing the game it a better game.
Equality just so happens to be EXACTLY what us masters are complaining, which makes the game better.

Facts are this, what makes a tournament a tournament? 19 juniors and 20 seniors? Neither, 60+ masters make the tournament. I understand how we need more younger players to actually play. If this is the route, stop creating 3-4 completely broken cards in which a kid cannot afford. Kids love to play the game for fun, nothing is fun if you can't compete with Timmy because his parents are loaded and got him the best of the best to be competitive. Losing, even for kids, sucks. Lets fix this?

 

[z-man]

Its unfair since your not benefiting from it. Not every decision TPCi is going to benefit you. If your jealous that a bunch of kids are getting something that your not getting, that is your own personal problem.

What? What? Where could you possibly derive jealousy from my post? Where can you possibly derive jealousy from my stance? Let it be known that I wouldn't be benefitted from this decision at all even if they hiked the masters prizes. I'm not playing in states this season, nor do I plan on playing next season. Even so, my opinion still stands that the divisions should receive equal prizes. If you're talking about "you" as a collective (those of us against this decision), that's also pretty much a straw man. The overall tone of this thread is not jealousy. We as a collective are all happy that the J/S got more, but we feel that the decision as a whole is a negative one.

Your math example is bad since math test arent a product that people are selling. TPCi wants younger people to play their game, there for they are offering them something more than older people. I dont see what is so hard to understand about that. I use the christmas example since older people usually dont care about getting gifts as much as children and to show you this point of view that things that old people dont care about are more cared about my children.

Does that change anything? What if this was Pearson conducting the math test? They write math textbooks. Does that change everything? We already know what TPCis goals were with this decision (or at least what Professor Dav said), but a large number of us said that we disagree with the means to the end. Also, these aren't gifts: there prizes for excellence. Old people do care about being rewarded properly for their accomplishments... same goes for young people. TPCi isn't handing us gifts... they're setting a bar and saying "if you are the best player at this event, we'll give you <X,Y, Z>".

Its not equal but I feel there is a reason why its not equal and its barely much of a difference to really matter so why even care? TPCi obviously picked this decision because they felt it would best benefit their company. They arent that dumb when it comes to making money and thats the reason they did it for.

TPCi clearly thought this through. A large number of the members did as well. Obviously, we know less than TPCi, but does that prohibit us from criticizing the decision? I'd say... no. Professor_Dav has already given his reasoning behind the regionals change, and I'd imagine the reasoning for this change is similar.

Another thing that bothers me is how everyone in the game has to be so melodramatic and having a pity party about it. Not everything in life is going to be equal, especially what happens in one of the less serious card games (competitively) on the market. I yet to see a single person this thread actually feel happy for the younger group, every post is just people complaining about how they are getting cheated. Seriously, (not saying this directly to you but everyone with this attitude), try feeling good about someone sides yourself for a change. Your not the only person playing this game. I know that your down because of the company not giving you more prizes, but I'm sure they are working on it. They could have taken away prizes and actually gave you a reason to complain, but instead they left everything unchanged in masters. So what really is the big deal?

Melodrama? Pity party? I don't see much of that tbh. Nobody is making posts complaining about the decision without backing it up or providing a solution. It is needless to say that our junior/senior companions will appreciate the change, and we are happy for them. I'd go back to the analogy piplup made dealing with your boss giving everyone a raise except for you. Of course you'll feel happy that everyone got more money, but it'd sting quite a bit -- especially given that you would disagree with your boss's rational.

"Not everything is going to be equal". Yup. We can always ask for it, though. I recently got to talk to a few business owners. The number one point they all echoed in some form or another is that the key to a successful small business is to make the majority of your customers feel valued in some way. Learning their names or preference would help making them feel special. When you create an inequality between players, it makes one subsection of players feel more valued than the other. The other feel as though they're being treated as less important than the "greater than" players. We stick around despite the blunders that have been made because we value TPCi's product. If TPCi had any form of competition (in the way of competitive PTCG), I'd imagine a large number of us would jump ship to see how the competition would be. If TPCi's goal is to make everyone feel valued, keeping everyone's prizes equal would be a pretty good way of doing that.


@Everyone Also, can we please stop with the straw mans and name calling? If anything, use less blunt words. Calling people "jealous", "ignorant", or "selfish" isn't going to get anyone anywhere. That type of thing only weakens arguments and gets people into fights rather than discussions. No good can come from it.

---------- Post added 02/07/2013 at 07:45 PM ----------

Facts are this, what makes a tournament a tournament? 19 juniors and 20 seniors? Neither, 60+ masters make the tournament. I understand how we need more younger players to actually play. If this is the route, stop creating 3-4 completely broken cards in which a kid cannot afford. Kids love to play the game for fun, nothing is fun if you can't compete with Timmy because his parents are loaded and got him the best of the best to be competitive. Losing, even for kids, sucks. Lets fix this?

TPCi, as I understand it, doesn't have a say in how cards are created. card design is an issue, but not one we should really be addressing here. The decision was made given that the game is the way it is.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

I understand, just stating a way the game could be better

 

[TheRolesWePlay]

So tired of seeing this argument... but nonetheless, here we go...

I'm honestly split when this discussion comes up. I remember playing when a Gym Challenge win gave players a full-paid trip to Worlds, a Pre-Release win gave packs and free admission to the next Pre-Release, and a notable performance at Regionals (top 4) gave out a scholarship. Over time, I've seen these resources allocated in different places, most notably to OP internationally. Many players — myself included — were dumbstruck when our "earnings" were taken away. The first year that Gym Challenges disappeared, I nearly quit the game. Not because I was upset, but because the pathway to Worlds felt so disappointingly distant (only top 8 in NA Masters were awarded invitations).

Where did the $$$ go, why did POP dismiss us so? Well, the money went to promote OP internationally, and because of that we now have a much larger representation of competitive play worldwide. We wouldn't have that now if I got my Gym Challenges back then. That's as simple as I can put it. The long-term benefit has outweighed my own temporary gain. Since then, the game has thrived worldwide.

This is very much an analogy to the current situation with Masters. The difference is, as Ryan Vergel has pointed out, the allocation doesn't seem to create any long-term solutions. For international players, the prospect of gaining an invitation to Worlds was alluring. The presence of OP helped create growth in the game, and the word got out. (I personally don't know the numbers behind this assertion, but from my perspective it appears there's finally a pulse in the Pokemon TCG internationally).

This prize increase for Juniors and Seniors, however, doesn't seem to live up to that model. I know quite a few kids from the place I work that are into Pokemon, and nobody's talking about those extra dollars at States. Most don't even know about the State Championships. My feeling is that those who do know about this increase are the ones who are already deep into competitive play. If P!P introduced Gym Challenges again, but only for Juniors and Seniors, I'm sure there would be a lot of growth in that demographic. But then I'm not sure if any Master would be happy with that decision.

From an outisde perspective, it doesn't look like the extra money here is being allocated smartly. But then, that's not my job. I just look forward to P!P placing more focus on their largest and dearest demographic. There are ways to do it without a huge cash allocation. There are creative ways to do it.

One can only hope.

A very nice post full of contemplation, and people ignore it in favor of continuing to tear each other apart over inane arguments.

People just take the points and actually try to see the merit instead of eating the arguments away in favor of the posters (admittedly understandable) irritation and overblown opinions

 

[Jaeger]

I've said this for a while now, but why not simply charge Masters a 10$ fee for States, Regionals and Nationals and give us considerably better prizes. P!P has already shown that they believe prize support doesn't need to be equal so why not just go a step farther?

 

[NoPoke]

Given how tournaments are funded in North America demanding parity might not work out so well for the masters. I expect that more OP money is allocated to the masters division than the juniors or seniors even if the per capita figure is less.

 

[Phazon Elite]

I've said this for a while now, but why not simply charge Masters a 10$ fee for States, Regionals and Nationals and give us considerably better prizes. P!P has already shown that they believe prize support doesn't need to be equal so why not just go a step farther?

I buy cards every now and then, but I'm nowhere as competitive as I used to be. As such, I most likely wouldn't pay $10 to play in those tournaments. I'm sure many other casual players agree with me.