Prize Penalty Issue

[TheRolesWePlay]

Yeah, that's called rule sharking. A game can be fixed if the time is put into it. Forgetting to set prizes should not be a game loss. Ether let them set their prizes from there or restart the game.

So you're saying that a player shouldn't ask for guidance on an game state error? Also since when does not setting out prizes = game loss? Have pigs sprouted wings and politicians gained sanity or something?

My brother does not play the game as much as I do so he does not know about the little things. I was playing a game while he was playing and had I heard that, I would have said something. When I'm playing a game, I expect judges to know all rulings. It amazed me how many judges did not know about the new plus power rule. Even I knew about that.

While yes a judge should always be aware of the current rulings that doesn't mean they are infallible and they are prone to making mistakes.

 

[vaporeon]

So you're saying that a player shouldn't ask for guidance on an game state error? Also since when does not setting out prizes = game loss? Have pigs sprouted wings and politicians gained sanity or something?



While yes a judge should always be aware of the current rulings that doesn't mean they are infallible and they are prone to making mistakes.

What the players should do is try to solve the problem themselves if they can help it. There is no need to call a judge over every little thing. Thats called rule sharking. If my games, if a player forgot to set prizes, I let them put them down. Only time a judge should be called is if a game play mistake happened that damaged the game to the point of no return.( Person dropped their hand on their prizes cards or mixed their deck with this discard pile.

Judges should have the same accountability for giving bad rulings that change the course of a game and or tournament as a player who forgets to set their prize cards and other mistakes.

 

[Zarmakuizz]

Forgetting to put prize cards does not give you a Game Loss unless you have searched / (shuffle+)draw a lot of cards from your deck : there is a sufficient probability that the cards you have taken could have been prized, so you had access to all of your deck while the opponent didn't, which is an unfair advantage.
If you see that prizes haven't been put at the start of the game, the penalty issued is just a warning, if few turns later prize penalty.


But again, if you agree with your opponent about fixing a game state "your own way", then the Judge has nothing to say. If your opponent shuffled his or her hand to the deck while playing Juniper, and you both agree to let him recover his or her hand before playing Juniper the right way, just do it. The judge just follows the rules, using the best of his or her knowledge, to fix a broken game state. However, letting players fixing a broken game state themselves, this could lead to what chriscobi364 told here.


You should also consider the fact that finding judges is not easy at first because only bad players agrees to do it (I am looking for one for my league since 2 years), asking for judges to be perfect would make things worse, and the less judge there is for a tournament the more pressure there is on them, pressure leads to mistakes, mistake leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
Judges are just volunteers that do their best to allow player having tournaments and fun at them and get peanuts in return. (Yeah, I consider getting boosters of a set already available since months is peanuts.) If you want to try what it is to be a judge, just pass the Pokémon Professor exam and ask to judge any tournament!

 

[vaporeon]

Thats the thing. I don't want perfect players or judges. I expect people to make mistakes. I would not take a game win because my opponent forget to set down prize cards. Things happen and everyone goes to play, not win because of a mistake.

I guess I can try to judge again.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

But when judges make the mistake, they don't lose their right to judge. When a player makes a mistake, they get a game loss. There is something wrong there.

This is so insanely wrong I'm struggling to fathom a response. To equate a game loss to banning a judge... You're insane.

Banning someone from Judging would be more like banning someone from organized play entirely. If you want equity talk in equity.

I want to make a more eloquent response, but... wow. I can't even begin to understand why you think that's a reasonable comparison, so I can't argue directly against it.

Judges do have accountability, report mistakes to the TO and to OP, and things will get done. But you don't get banned from playing for one mistake, a judge won't get banned from judging for one mistake.

 

[Ness]

What about offering two options to hand down the prize loss? The opponent of the offending player gets to choose if he wants to draw a prize himself, or if he wants to put the top card of his opponent's deck to his prizes. It wouldn't solve the Twins/N problem but give decks like Durant or Lostgar the option to take benefit of the prize loss.

This sounds like a decent idea. However, given the importance of N & Twins though I worry the penalty will still end up being insignificant or counterproductive too often.

 

[Fifthplace]

But when judges make the mistake, they don't lose their right to judge. When a player makes a mistake, they get a game loss. There is something wrong there.

So if you keep getting 5th place you shoudnt be able to play anymore because you keep making mistakes?
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[vaporeon]

So if you keep getting 5th place you shoudnt be able to play anymore because you keep making mistakes?
Posted with Mobile style...

Well, the last few time I came 5 I was ether 5-1 or 4-1 losing to donks so...

 

[Fifthplace]

But you you made mistakes lol like if your mother made a mistake at home is she not your mother anymore?
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[vaporeon]

But you you made mistakes lol like if your mother made a mistake at home is she not your mother anymore?
Posted with Mobile style...

Sure, I played bad when I got donked. It's was a total misplay to lose before my turn. I knew I should have went to coin flipping school...

 

[ShuckleLVX]

Sure, I played bad when I got donked. It's was a total misplay to lose before my turn. I knew I should have went to coin flipping school...

The arrogance in your last few posts astounds me. His point is valid. You never make mistakes? You only lose when you get donked?

If you never misplay, where are your worlds trophies?

And before you claim you never said that, you implied it so heavily I think my ethernet cable is fraying from the weight.

 

[vaporeon]

The arrogance in your last few posts astounds me. His point is valid. You never make mistakes? You only lose when you get donked?

If you never misplay, where are your worlds trophies?

And before you claim you never said that, you implied it so heavily I think my ethernet cable is fraying from the weight.

Well, the last few times I came 5th, I was donked. I don't misplay often and I also don't have the money to travel to all the event most of you can afford to put out.

 

[eatos555]

WOW this Vaporeon guy can't be real he has to be some sort of non existent person or something clearly he does not know the rules at all. How can you consider a prize penalty an automatic win Jeremy Jallen top 8ed at this years world in this format all reliant on the first prize playing a mirror match against reshi by getting a prize penakty. It's part of the game and everyone knows it. Learn your game mechanics. I understand that people make mistakes I have gotten penalties before for prizes and sure it sucks but you keep playing and dont complain it happens to everyone and it teaches you to remember and not forget.

And why dont you judge because clearly you know every ruling and how to deal with everything. Before every tournament they say call a judge if you have a question about ANYTHING prizes is something rulings are something. Not everyone knows the new rule about plus power and I know for a fact the judge didnt do that ruling 3 times because someone should have sai something why didnt you because you said it happened in games after your brother's so you are as much to blame for not fixing it as the judge for not knowing if not you are more to blame because you knew it was wrong while the judge thought he was doing the right thing and being a good judge.

Everyone is human and makes mistakes penalties are there to help you not make them anymore one prize penalty every once in awhile will make sure people remember to do it in the future. But i am probably talking to a robot right now because this Vaporeon guy/girl can't be real.

 

[Frequency]

Wow, I would hate to live in a world where Vaporeon was in charge. Police officers, doctors, and anyone else important would be out of jobs for making 1 mistake.

You're logic is baffling. Judges and players should NEVER be considered the same. Banning a judge is a major offense which could not, in any circumstances, be comparable to a player prize lose.

As for your playing abilities, 5th place doesn't mean squat in Battle Roads or even Cities. Until you are continually winning tournaments and placing at Regionals and States, perhaps then we would lend an ear.

It is clear by your language, the constant use of "I", that you don't have objective critical thinking skills. Using personal instances to determine the entirety of how an organization should operate is absurd and delusional. Mistakes are mistakes. Judging from your post, Eatos is right, it is just as much your fault to not doing anything. It is irresponsible to not say something. If you have problems with specific judges in your area, why don't you go talk to the PTO?

Am I outraged? Yes, without a doubt. The arrogance of these posts attacking situational mistakes instead of the looking at the actually topic at hand is ridiculous. A penalty should occur. I like the idea of choosing a penalty. What that entails, I have no idea.

My two cents on the matter is that Vaporeon should quietly retreat into his hole and continue placing 5th at BRs while playing mediocre piles of trash decks and something should change with how prize lose rulings occur. I like where this thread is going, aside from Vaporeon's ignorance. I love that the community is coming together to not only understand subjects like this, but that we are ever trying to improve this great game.

 

[King Piplup]

WOW this Vaporeon guy can't be real he has to be some sort of non existent person or something clearly he does not know the rules at all. How can you consider a prize penalty an automatic win Jeremy Jallen top 8ed at this years world in this format all reliant on the first prize playing a mirror match against reshi by getting a prize penakty. It's part of the game and everyone knows it. Learn your game mechanics. I understand that people make mistakes I have gotten penalties before for prizes and sure it sucks but you keep playing and dont complain it happens to everyone and it teaches you to remember and not forget.

And why dont you judge because clearly you know every ruling and how to deal with everything. Before every tournament they say call a judge if you have a question about ANYTHING prizes is something rulings are something. Not everyone knows the new rule about plus power and I know for a fact the judge didnt do that ruling 3 times because someone should have sai something why didnt you because you said it happened in games after your brother's so you are as much to blame for not fixing it as the judge for not knowing if not you are more to blame because you knew it was wrong while the judge thought he was doing the right thing and being a good judge.

Everyone is human and makes mistakes penalties are there to help you not make them anymore one prize penalty every once in awhile will make sure people remember to do it in the future. But i am probably talking to a robot right now because this Vaporeon guy/girl can't be real.

Sock puppet much? Not that some of the points aren't valid, but still...

 

[psychup2034]

My two cents on the matter is that Vaporeon should quietly retreat into his hole and continue placing 5th at BRs while playing mediocre piles of trash decks and something should change with how prize lose rulings occur.

How dare you call Vaporeon/Pidgeot a trash deck! Outrageous!

 

[Ness]

The simplest solution I have is that anytime a prize penalty is offered, a player can simply draw a card from their deck instead. A three-prize penalty would allow the player to draw up to three cards.

 

[Xicious]

Opt to not take the prize/s if it gives your opponent an advantage then let the issue be reported to tpci and if they're repeat offenders they get banned. There are already measures in place to cover the issues you're talking about but they're in the long run. You're just not looking at the big picture. If you really feel this is an issue I think it can best be handled by saying if the player who was offered to take a prize declines than they're announced the winner of the game if they have one prize card remaining. This would solve all the issues you stated.
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[ogremarauder]

^ that's the best thing we could hope for. I don't see changes being made anytime soon though. Just look at all the other worthwhile suggestions that have been implemented-- wait there are none. You have come up with a near perfect solution, why doesn't Pokemon hire you to actually implement some much needed changes? (answer is they won't cause they plan to change nothing any time soon)

 

[Xicious]

Lol, if they had a east coast base of opperations i'd consider since I am actually in a marketing field. The best I can do for now is to chat with Mike (pokepop).


I missed a post that discussed this already and I apologize. Here is what I think can be used.

The player can
1. Take a prize card.
2. Give his/her opponent an extra prize from the top of their deck.
3. Win the game if the player has taken all but 1 of his/her prize cards.


Now that should address all of the issues.
Posted with Mobile style...