Pros/Cons to the Money Snatchers

Discussion in 'Random Topic Center' started by Psycho_Lugia_X, Jan 2, 2004.

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  1. Psycho_Lugia_X

    Psycho_Lugia_X New Member

    Never mind the title to this, i needed a catchy way to introduce the theme of this thread, "What are the pros and cons to each of the big 3 card games (YGO, Poké, MTG)?" Lets go into some detail, lets pretend we have no biases and just shoot off whats good and bad between the games. Ill start, and feel free to debate points in future posts, and enjoy the rebuttals of others to yours. Ill keep this light so i wont hog every possible point. And feel free to add other card games. You just might make a new fan, a new rival, or even a new refugee!

    Pokémopolis (i love that word)
    On the plus side, there's no max hand limit, which is kind of a bad thing for certain mechanics like recursion, but its nice to hang on to stuff you dont need at the moment and not worry about having to pick which cards to get rid of.
    Also, there is a limit to how tough a creature can be to take down, you can only have a poke out for so long before he gets worn down and the sky isnt the limit to its hp...the cap is now 200 right (im still not comfy with the Nintendo take over)? Also, the game is pretty simple but at the same time complex,a s it allows for serious thought to make a move. The rules dont overwhelm you like say DBZ did, for me anyways. But it boasts a complex thought process to play well.

    For the darker side of pokémon, you lose your method of payment, or energy, whenever your guy goes down. This hurts you as it makes a need for more cards of that sort, energy, and thus u fill up your precious slots in your strict 60 card deck.
    Speaking of which, the 60 card thing is a double bladed axe. Its a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. It could keep you from making a nice deck that would be ruined if you had more than 50-55 cards in it. There is good though, you and your opponent have the same odds regarding decking to start off with. Expound on this issue please!
    About the thing that really bugs me, there is a little too much coin flipage involved, its pretty tough to make a deck without coin flips involved in one way or another. Some good cards are DQ'd from the decklist cuz theres just TOO much luck with a coin toss. Flipping for bonus stuff is fine, like the luxury of poison or burn, but if there is no base damege for that luxury to accompany, then it becomes what we dont want in STRATEGY, luck. Remember, anyone can do luck, but it takes more of someone to do strategy, to do skill. Thats why i dont even want to TOUCH Neopets TCG, where a single roll beats you regardless of how well you planned. Luck destroys a game, and this game keeps it at bay, but luck encroaches a bit too much still. A quick note before i finish here, i think we are ready for some more advanced concepts. Think Threshold or something like that, or kill spells, but with trainer cards, maybe some burn spells. You know, a supporter, all fighting types take 20 dmg or something. I'd like something like that, but maybe that's a little out of flavor. So you could have a poké be able to do stuff like that. I loved that mightyena discard attack. Now they are getting threats--indirect threats--out to your opponent.

    You, G.I. Joe!
    Pros, a complex game is available, strategy is involved deeply, and luck is kept to a minimum regarding card effects. There is an air of mystery to the face down shtick, and it hooks you in immediately. Couple a face down creature with a face down helper card, Spell/Trap card, and add a little smirk from your opponent and you got a thought provoking situation on your hand...get it? Heh...heh...ok, puns are banished from the rest of this post. The point is that you dont know what to expect, so you end up second guessing yourself and if you are really willing to test your preparations and strategy against your foe. A final good note to the card game is that you get to surprise your opponent with stuff that can really screw up their plans; there is usually a way out of a bad situation if you really want it. By that i mean there are numerous destroy cards to start over on your terms.

    I really dont like how some cards are utterly USELESS in the game. There is ABSOLUTELY no way to use the cards, there are TONS of water types that just are nothing! they are like 400/300. AND they are vanilla...there is NO WAY to use them. You end up wasting your money on a booster when you get three such dead cards in a pack. Its rather discouraging. What was the board meeting like when they pitched cards like that. "Ok, boss, listen, this guy is 400/300, BUT he has no effect." Boss: "Kazujukimukoyamishuchi, you're a geneous!" I mean come on, what were they thinking. If a card IS useful, it has to pass ANOTHER trial. SOme cards are WAAAAAY too situational. Its kinda like the poké mystery plates, but times ten. Like what are the odds that a certain card will be taken control of by your opponent when it is face up and just as weak as the above mentioned hypothetical card? Stuff like that really makes you mad. It takes a lot of effort to just build a playable deck. It could suck but at least you can get some progress in a game. But there are too many cards that have u foced to play them if thats all you got. You have to hunt for cards to make your deck just so-so. Let's not talk about what it takes to make a great deck, whew! Another bad thing about the game, and this is running long, so ill end it with this one, is that the game is kind of hard to keep from a "I got my huge guy out first, i win" situation. While there are a lot of destroy cards out there, in a casual game its a race to pull your heavy hitter out first. Especially when the game started out, there was too much of this one card to end it all feel to it. I do have to thank the company, thought, because recently the cards have been improving. There are less and less dead cards. Five second dis: one monster per turn sucks, cant fight back after a huge upset!

    Magic: The Original
    The pros play the game for money (gotcha!). The good side of the game is that you can drop as many guys as you want as long as you can pay for 'em. You use your method of payment repeatedly, and there is an open ended creativity pool available for deckbuidling. I noticed in YGO that there are a bunch of cards that end up being either dead or building your deck for you. Whats the point/fun in that? (Gradius, stop haunting me!) Magic has just enough space to change constantly without disrupting the spine of the game, few things are set in stone so you know you can count on the game to never get out of control years from now. YGO has everything written out, and that is dangerous, they have every creature type and element spelled out, and theres a five M/T/Mon limit to be broken under only the rarest of occasions. Magic just gives you the ABC's from which you can derive an entire lexicon. Do you see what im saying? IN addition, there is only as much luck involved as you want. Where you are lucky to make an effective flipless deck in Pokémon, i dare you to make a flipping deck in Magic. I have seen very few cards in my life that deal with flips in Magic. There are very few pure luck related cards in existance. And i think thats great.

    The cons take your money and give you a product that will break five minutes after its out of the box (ZING! thats two!). Seriously, the downside to magic is that first of all the new card frames are a tad unflavorful. It wouldnt kill them to make the frames reflect a side of the color it frames. Remember how green had the plank of wood for a text box, red was set in stone, etc.? A simple change in the border of the text box would be nice, but whatever, thats not important to the game itself. I really didnt like how the Onslaught block turned out. It made too many cards change your deck, which may or may not be a good thing depending on how you look at it. But let's stuck with the bad. If you were trying to improve your old deck during Onslaught, you couldnt improve your theme because most cards were all about tribe, which fits the theme of the block, but excluded improvement to the past cards that didnt want to focus on tribal themes. Plus the tribal theme seems a bit uninspired. Well that was a pretty weak bag on Magic, but i'd like to see you do better. Heh.

    Ok, i tried to keep that light, hope i did, but now let's hear from you. Let's debate, add points, and etcetera! I really want to know how you players think. Multiple perspectives yield multiple perceptions. Go!
  2. GuardianTIM

    GuardianTIM New Member

    Regarding Pokémon, I didn't mind the luck so much for things like Aquapolis Blissey (I think), but that was okay. Yes, I didn't mind that, because it was only one card, and Chansey and Blissey aren't designed to do Uber damage. However, there are some cards, where they didn't really need so much coin flipping involved.
    Since the coming of the Nintendo PokémonTCG, it's so simple to destroy any old deck (with the exception of Base Blastiose, of course), which sucked the fun out of the game, for me at least. I think it was so many contradictions and obscurities with the rulings of cards.
    Like if Rare Candy can go straight to a Stage2 pokemon from a basic, can Wally's Training do the same? The wording is similar, but not quite clear enough to easily decide.
    I just found that having to go check the Compendium every 15mins ruined the game...

    Yes, YuGiOh was good for a bit for me, but I found it way too annoying that (as you've mentioned before), once they get their powerful creature out, then you're pretty much stuffed, unless you can draw a creature-destroying card. Also, you're right about decks being half-made before you've decided on your metagame. If you had the cards available, would you ever make a YuGiOh deck without ChangeOfHeart, DarkHole, etc? Heck no.
    They're staples to every deck, and that makes it rather dull.
    After all, what happens when they've brought out enough sets, and so many staple cards, that there are just so many staples that they ARE your deck?
    On the upside, yes, I agree with you about Face-down cards. They do add the element of surprise, and it also adds the ability to bluff, giving you an advantage if you're lucky in that regard. Because they can't figure out in advance what will happen, your opponent won't always act in the way you expect.

    Yes, I know what you mean about YuGiOh being restrictive in what it can do. Pokémon expanded their Trainer cards by including things like Supporters and Pokémon Tools, but I don't see how YuGiOh could do the same so easily.

    I must admit, I haven't played Magic:TheGathering for about 5-8 years or so, now, so I've no idea what's happened since then.
    Yes, I agree with you about the artwork. Even simple things like the border art do make a difference, especially if they vary just slightly between sets, so that it stays familiar, but is always fresh and new.
    Actually, having played the other two, I do want to get back to M:TG, and see what it's like. At least with M:TG, you still have your Mana which means that your opponent can't necessarily keep you down once they've cleared your creatures out. Btw, are they still making Slivers (you remember those creatures, right?) I remember someone wanting to make a deck with their entire creature pool made of Slivers.
    Those were the days...

    Yes, I know that I haven't added much else to the conversation, but perhaps someone else has some views as well that they'd like to share? :D
  3. Psycho_Lugia_X

    Psycho_Lugia_X New Member

    Interesting thoughts. They did remake slivers in a big way with the last block, Onlsaught, and nowadays, the creature feature is down as the new block, Mirrodin, is boasting artifacts, so i wouldnt hold my breath for new slivers anytime soon. On the plus side, since there are so many new and useful artifacts coming out, it would proably be a nice time to get back into Magic, as the block just started off and the many artifacts can help improve any deck without having to change around your basic deck idea too much. There is a focus on the swarm of artifacts, but that is if you want to follow that theme; the artifacts are, for the most part, pretty independent unlike YGO cards like archfiends.

    Archfiends are playable by themselves, but lets not kid around, you are REALLY going to want to play them together otherwise you are just wasting a spot in your deck, when you look at the power you are passing up. They are kinda like the slivers of YGO, play them together for best results.

    You know, thats what i love about pokéTCG, there are almost no limits. Any card can go into your theme for a deck without having to carry over tons of cards you didnt really want to go with it. Archfiends, for ecample, kind of nudge you towards building an archfiend deck since an individual archfiend would not be as effective, even a waste of space. But in PTCG, you can think, hmm...that Crawdaunt is pretty mean, lets make a deck outta him. Thats it you dont need any other specific cards to help out your idea for a Crawdaunt deck. It's all up to you. I love the idea of just picking a theme for a deck and then scimming through your collection to find nice additions to the theme. This is similar to YGO, but not completely in that in YGO you find yourself scimming through your collection to find REQUIRED additions to the theme of your deck.

    I guess thats the difference between YGO and PTCG, choices. YGO loves to limit your choices. I think there's no beating magic though. It's the original and it is like poké but even more choices can free you up. The downside to PTCG is that if you want that Crawdaunt out, you'll need a corphish. But if you want, say a...i dunno, a Mortivore out in Magic, you dont need anything else. I repeat, you dont need anything out. No other required additions to your deck. But i much prefer the freedom of Poké over the deceptive freedom of YGO.

    By the way, what are your impressions of DuelMasters? I think it sounds interesting...YGO with the freedom of Magic, with the definate conclusion of Poké. By that i mean six prizes--five shields, one final atk=6 hits and you lose=6 prizes. I want to try it out, but i am discouraged by the disease originating from YGO, the XXX0 number system. would it kill them to use some smaller numbers? It wont kill or hurt the power of the creatures, kust make it relative. I mean if you're playin Magic and you see something with 13 atk, you shudder! You dont need 3950 ATK on a card to freak you out, 13 will do fine, thank you. When you have to bring a calculator into a game, your going a bit too far, Mr. Game Company. That's why i love dont need anything but a deck and an opponent. Poké is just below that with needing a coin and some counters, otherwise you're gonna get a headache remembering those hp's in a serious game. And at the bottom of the pyramid--get it?--is YGO, with a calculator, paper, pencil, and even maybe some dice with the looks of come newer cards coming out.

    Man, i keep telling myself I'm gonna keep these things short. Oh, by the way, earlier this morning, i just scored over 2 BILLION!!! points in my PokéPinball GBA game! WOO! I even caught Jirachi! And 4 Kyogres and a Rayquaza and and a, off topic, but man, no one at home appreciated the feat...had to share it with someone...yeah.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2004
  4. Tails

    Tails New Member


    My first serious game, and the one I have the strongest ties to. Can be played by five, six year olds at the simplest level, but can keep strategists at the table for hours, over just one game.

    The rarity scheme is great. Good cards all across the bands, so it's relatively easy to grab at least a near-competitive deck. It's just the coin flips. It seems that every other card says "flip a coin." Base-Fossil was best, when flips were just uncommon, and most still did something beneficial when you failed. Old School, yo! Oh, and the high HP on some of the EX is just... no. 120 HP, max, like in the old days. 200 is just... practically sacreligous. Sorry for putting it that way, but I'm a purist...

    Other than flippiness and the extreme prevalence of archetypes, this game is flawless.


    YGO was OK in the beginning. The power cards, while still required, even at the outset, were relatively easy to come by (lots of them being in starters). It was still OK with lots of bad monsters. Even Skull Servant could be used to call out Relinquished.

    And then Yata hit.

    For the uninitiated, Yata-Garasu (Lovingly referred to as "Yata") is a... 100/200, I believe. Level... one? (I never had one...) Sucks on its own, would be unplayable... until you read the ability.

    Effectively, if Yata touches your opponent, that opponent skips their next draw phase. That's OK, its stats are weak. Then comes the kicker: If it's Summoned, Flip Summoned, or flipped face up (I know, the last two are real redundant), it returns to the hand during the End phase. Goes to the graveyard? Back to the hand. Removed from the game? Welcome back, Yata. The only way to kill it is to discard it from the hand or deck, both of which are relatively hard to do. And then, a simple Fiber Jar zings it back into the deck.

    A common phrase nowadays is "Dark Hole, Yata. Play again?" Sure, a Dark Hole would leave the opponent open, but not being able to draw? One good monster removal card shuts the game down after that.

    Yata pretty much summarizes YGO. Cards are either way too powerful, or completely useless. The Trap mechanic is interesting, too. If only there were more good ones.

    {Edit: Oh, and the grammar. It's nearly impossible to understand some cards, let alone names (Spell of Mask?). Many rules debates. And let's not forget the difference between "negate," "destroy," and "negate and destroy" (Negate takes out the effect, leaves the card. Destroy removes the card, leaves the effect. Negate and destroy does both).


    Ah, the original. It's kinda hard to talk about it critically, because of the age, but here goes...

    The mechanics are interesting. Instants are fun, because you can cast them any time. Abilities like Kicker and Entwine let you play a card for the printed cost, and give you the option of adding another effect on by paying an extra cost. More options are always good.

    Split cards are fun. For those of you who haven't seen one/don't play, a split card has two cards on it (printed at a 90 degree angle so they retain the same proportions). You can play only one half of the card. Effectively, it's two cards, but it only takes up one card slot. Card advantage, anyone?

    Some things get confusing, though. During a huge attack, abilities like Regeneration, Double Strike, and Attacking doesn't cause Tapping can make for major headaches if you're not experienced. Also, the way some Enchantments (Think semi-Stadiums) and other cards interact can get confusing. Then again, this happens in all games, so...

    All in all, the three games are good, but they all suffer from their own little problems (Stupid flippy cards...). Except for Yu-Gi. Too much focus on backstory, not enough balance. A few good bannings (BAN FREAKING YATA!), more balanced sets, and an actual FORMAT would be good.


    Just thought I'd chime in on this, even though it wasn't asked...

    NP is a definite change of pace. The object isn't to completely CRUSH your opponent, but to manage your resources in such a way that you gain the upper hand through a 50/50 mix of strategy and luck. A bit of cunning helps, too.

    People have said that if you roll higher than your opponent, you automatically win, and thus, the game has no strategy. This is only true if the stats that are being compared are exactly equal. If your stat is bigger than your opponent's by 5 or more, you have an 85% chance of winning that contest (effectively an attack). The closer the stats get, the closer this percentage gets to 50. Some of the strategy of the game is knowing when to increase your stats, and when to just ignore it.

    There are four arenas (Think combat zones. In Poké terms, 4 Active Poké, but your Poké can only attack the one(s) directly across from them), but you can only have three 'pets in play at any time. So... Do you try to match your opponent's arenas, or let one of them go? If you start a contest (attack) in an arena with no opposition, you automatically win that contest, no roll necessary.

    Another interesting mechanic is the Bank. To win, you have to "bank" 21 points. You can only bank a card when you win a contest. The catch? You have to bank a card from your hand. In short, to win, you have to give yourself card disadvantage. If you don't bank, you can draw a card, but your offense slows down. With the lack of good draw power (some cards draw when banked, but it's a 1 for 1 deal), knowing when to bank and when to draw is extremely important.

    That said, NP is really lacking draw/search power. It suffers slightly because of this, but, with only one set out, this problem can be easily addressed. This is pretty much the only problem with it, as the cards are very balanced. There aren't very many archetypes, compared to the same time frame with Poké, and those that are there still have lots of variety.

    Well, OK, not its only problem. It's a niche game. If a non-Neopian picks up the game, a lot of the flavor will be lost. On the other hand, it definitely looks like a contender in the card gaming world.

    My 2000 cents.

    {Edit: Ah, I forgot who referenced things like Threshold, as it'd be in Poké, but... yeah. Threshold, Kicker, split cards, Entwine, they'd all be great. Good idea!}
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2004
  5. Psycho_Lugia_X

    Psycho_Lugia_X New Member

    That was me, thanks. I also think Poké would benefit from some instant trainers. They could be like supporters. Then again, that might be out of flavor, because the whole game is about your monsters duking it out, not the trainers doing it for them.

    I have more energy and that means more complaints about YGO. I am sick and tired of the half-hearted attempts at translating card titles. Guys, just make up some new ones as long as they stick in flavor. There are names for weak, pitiful monsters that would suggest legendary status in Magic terms. There are like names so long that you have to shrink down the font size in the title bar. Red flag, friends. La Jinn the Mystical Genie of the Lamp. HELLO?!! Are you so moronic that you couldnt just call it Mystic Genie, or if you MUST use a name so as to make it sound like an indiviual monster, yet you can have THREE in your deck, then you could call it La Jinn. But come on...whats with all this effort to give a name to something if its just a mediocre card. La Jinn, is a decent card, but there are other monsters like "Twin Long Rods#2." Com on, that is rediculous. Magic is great because each creature has a name that suggests there could be more than one, or rather, four in your deck. The only exception is when you have a Legend card, where only one of these cards can exist on the field at a time. That is when its appropriate to use the word "the" in a title, implying that there can only be ONE of them.

    They have names that describe the card IN THE NAME of the card! Push it on over to flavor text man! I always chuckle when i imagine the weirdest name i can think of for a YGO card, because its so shockingly plausible i'll hear it one day. It goes something like this: "I play 'The Thing that Creeps in the Dark as it Shows its Wings #7,' your move." Yes, this is hyperbole, but do you see my point, these names are out of hand. They should just get some new names but keep them in flavor. If they are given a card about a dragon shooting fire, then simply call it Flaming Dragon or something, nothing rediculous.

    And spell cards too, lighten up the titles in Spell/traps cards. The grammar thing is horrible. In the cartoon they called Monster Reborn, "Reborn the Monster." Both are pretty weird, but the former has just grown on most. Enough of this names topic, lets move on.

    There are too many stalemate situations, or at least you get to the point where one side is completely locked down. No, not by strategy and combos falling together, but by pulling your beastie out and leaving your opponent nothing to do but cower in defense mode. It is very, very hard to get back in the game by counter attacking with monsters, without resorting to a creature kill spell. Theres the diff that bugs me. One creature per turn. So as soon as you can drop something to block your life against the beast of your opponent, in preparation to drop a stronger guy next turn, to rival your opponents, by saccing your current weakling, he is destroyed. You cant get back because as soon as you drop your would-be sacrifice, he's dead before you can use him. Theres no way to get back into it. You need to use a kill spell, and thats not so fun. At least for me,i like to see my monsters get the job done...i guess thats the PokéTCG in me, i never like to use that many trainers if i could avoid it...Bill, potion, switch/gust, you know.

    I like magic for its complexity. Thats one of the things i long for in pokémon, in fact. I want stack tricks. I love the chaotic order in the stack.

    YGO had the potential to outshine Poké and even magic, but there are just TOO many flaws, erratas, ambiguities, and culture clashes. They had something ood on their hands, but they just wont make the sensible moves. Am i alone in thinking this, or do others share my views? Anything anyone disagrees with me on?
  6. Tails

    Tails New Member

    Yes, it COULD have been really good. Now, pretty much all it's REALLY good for is a lesson in how NOT to design games.

    Hey, another YGO name thing. Every notice the redundancy in some names? I mean, Black Skull Dragon? Sure, made up of Red Eyes Black and Sumoned Skull, but Black dragons are also referred to as Skull dragons... Someone didn't do their research when naming cards...

    Hey, could be worse. Is it true that Simpsons is really THAT bad?
  7. Psycho_Lugia_X

    Psycho_Lugia_X New Member

    I actually thought the Simps might be a little fun. However, i anticipate that no amount of boosters can make the game anymore complex. It seems like a fun run for a little, but then it seem liable to get old and redundant fast. and redundant fast. and redundant fast.--Sorry, just imagining it got me into redundant mode.

    YGO is fun when you finally acquire cards that actually help. But it is a misery before that.

    The thing about Neopets, didnt they say if you roll a 6 you automatically win? I may have misread that while reading the rules/demo thing, but if that's the rule, then i would part with that game before entering. There would have to be some really good gameplay behind the game to compensate for that. But i doubt that, so unless someone has a deck to be split, i dont see myself playing NP anytime soon.

    Any takes on the DuelMasters game??? It looks like MTG rules with a new face, basically and if it is, I am willing to giveit a try. I have always wanted a Magic game, but with a total foreign theme. Like using pokés as your creats. Like Unglued, but with alternate themes beind the creature design. On the Magic boards they have a couple of threads dedicated to making fantasy sets. I saw one for The Legend of Zelda expansion. Nifty, if you ask me.

    Anyways, someone fill me in on DuelMasters!
  8. Dunjohn

    Dunjohn New Member

    While I don't play Duelmasters (yet; awaiting it's European release), I do know that it is NOT Magic. Based on Magic, perhaps, but you won't learn anything about Magic while playing it. Remember when Magic players used to complain that Pokemon existed soley to teach kids Magic? That's what I mean. They are two separate, incompatable and incomparable games.

    Since I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh and don't enough about Pokemon these days, I won't join the main argument. The only game I play seriously right now is Magic, but I'm trying to get into Ophidian, hoping desperately that it takes off locally. Ophidian's an interesting one, and enjoyable, but desperately complicated when you're learning (I practically speak in symbols and keywords now). I got into Star Wars TCG too, but that bombed spectacularly here :(
  9. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    On Pokemon:

    First off, I don't know if this is a consious attempt of the developers or not, but if you look at the best cards in the current modified format, then you can tell that luck is becoming a thing of the past. Wobbuffet is simple, Gardevoir ex and its r/s counterpart are REALLY simple, Blaziken doesn't involve flipping, and the flipping for Amphy ex, while can be major, usually isn't. The Pokemon TCG is quickly moving out of luck, and keeping more and more of the skill involved.

    On Yu-Gi-Oh:

    Don't get me wrong: the YGO TCG can be really exciting at times, due precisely to the face-down flipping (Basically, a more finessed form of the "Morph" mechanic from MtG). However, I quickly learned that, upon attending a tourny for the first time in three months, that it's ALL based on the luck of the draw, and playing as it comes and goes. With Pokemon, you can control your luck. With YGO, you simply can't =/

    On MtG:

    There's an incredible amount of deepness to Magic, as it has had more time to develop than anything else. If you want variety, then look no where else! However, the variety can be your downfall. In playing type 1, 1.5, or Extended, you'll have to go WAY back, and fish for the best cards of those eras...Those older....more expensive eras :(

    On Yu Yu Hakusho:

    Surprisingly, YYH has become big in my area. It's a newer game, so little can be said of it. However, gameplay is great, the mechanics are solid, there are few luck issues, and team bonuses keep you from automatically going for the best of the best. Unfortunately, the new set (Dark Tournament) has released MANY cards that simply make the previous set useless. For example: the highest level for HP was 5000 in the base set, and 6000 after applying a Rokuyukai team bonus. NOW, it's 6000, and 7000. What does this mean for the other, smaller cards that used to be good? They're suddenly useless. Save a few characters, it seems to me that this got out of hand. If something like this happens again, then it'll go the way of a condensed YGO.
  10. Psycho_Lugia_X

    Psycho_Lugia_X New Member

    Very interesting ideas.

    Patriarch, I havent gotten very many new cards in a while, after neo destiny, that is. I just got a Dragon deck and a Sand booster. So, i'm basically not privy to what Nintendo's got up it's sleeve. I am very, very happy to hear that someone who is up to date can vouch for the less-luck camp. I even noticed it in the deck i got. I was using an old theme deck to play my sister, since Poké's the only TCG she can stand, and i noticed her deck had a bunch more flipping than mine did. This is great news to me.

    Could you maybe go into some details about the YGO tourney? I have always wanted to go to one, but there are none local, until very recently, but by now, my friends have abandoned the game. I think of nowing a card game like knowing a subject in school, if a situation comes up for it, you'll be prepared. If there's nothing to do on a desert island, but there are YGO cards and islanders there, I'm set! Anyways, what was the tourny like that luck was total dominant? I see YGO as a game where if you have a bad opening hand, you can count on a small chance of getting back into it. With Magic, you can find your ground. In Pokémon, you can chistle away at your opponent, or use a brick wall to block off your dudes while they power up the comeback on the bench. But your post makes it seem like there is like ZERO chance of getting back...hope for some expounding soon.

    I didnt want to touch YuYuHak, cuz it reminded me of DBZ. I play DBZ, but very lightly. In fact, I have officially pulled out of future investment in the game. Maybe, just maybe I'll try out DBGT, cuz they promised new stuff...but like you said with the antequated personalities in YYH, i get flashbacks to geezer-like personalities in DBZ. That's why i didnt want to try YYH. I am surprised to hear from a fan of the game. Whats it like?

    Dunjohn, what's Opidian, is that a Euro-exclusive? Sounds like DBZ to me, intro wise. It took me forever to understand DBZ when it first came out. About DuelMasters, there was a thread that showed a quick play rulebook and it followed Magic pretty well, except that creats are potential lands and you have shields as your Pokémon prizes or Magic life. Is there more to it?
  11. Dunjohn

    Dunjohn New Member

    No, Ophidian's not a European-only release; it's just come out here, while the States is expecting the first expansion soon. It's made by Fleer Cards (, a sports card company, and it's their first attempt at a card game. Oddly, unlike Upper Deck, they've decided to enter the market at the very deep end and not use an existing license, which was a huge risk. That's probably why the game art is crap; they wanted to hedge their bets incase it flopped. They're basically going for the title of "The Next Magic".

    They've nonetheless recieved rave reviews from the magazines, and the game looks like staying. Your team of futuristic gladiators takes on your opponent's in a game that plays more like a complicated version of Pokemon than a complicated version of Magic.

    Interesting that you compare it to DBZ; that game never recieved a European release :) Thanks to the Scrye promoes, I probably have the biggest DBZ collection in the country.

    Like I said about DuelMasters, I haven't played it yet so I can't say too much more than I have. I will ad that there are also many similarities to Magic; WotC did say some time ago that they used DuelMasters as a testing-ground for ideas that they considered for Magic, so it would make sense for them to make it similar. Even so, they're still very different.
  12. Tails

    Tails New Member

    Call me slow, but I just read Wizards' quick-play sheet today (Duel Masters). All I can say is that it looks to be a REAL fast game. Here's my thoughts (using just the quick-play sheet):

    It looks rather interesting. It's going to be VERY hard to get mana screwed (Only if you're running a rainbow deck, it looks like). This is good. After all, how many times have we had that happen?

    Your creatures can't be targetted by your opponent's unless they did something. Makes you consider something other than an all-out assault, YGO style.

    With shields having 0 HP, they're quite fragile. It's easy to attack them, but they open up your creatures, AND give your opponent card advantage. Painful choice, it seems. Go one step closer, AND give your opponent a two-fold advantage?

    With the Shields practically functioning as HP, math doesn't look too hard. Hopefully, attacks will remain simple comparison (what I'm getting from their sheet). Why it's four-digit is a mystery to me.

    A fusion of Magic and YGO, methinks. It does look promising, but it'd better have some KILLER abilities (not just destruction/removal, but things like Magic's Spellbombs, Counterspells, etc.), with some balanced spells to back them up.

    Hey... now that I'm thinking about it, doesn't it seem that Magic can easily be tweaked to the DM rules?

    Two last thoughts: Is the name one word or two, and... doesn't their mascot on the sheet look REAL familiar? Yuuuuuu.... :)
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2004

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