Public Announcement: STRATEGY does NOT = BuildMeAList :/

[Kayle]

*Confused by the last few posts*

The two before my most recent one are just normal comments.

My most recent is responding to R_A locking the Sableye thread prematurely.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

Okay, and - why not?

Wasn't the point of these topics to consolidate a dozen other topics into one?

I thought once you created a thread, it was forum property! If the topic drifts within reason, let it! We're still talking about Sablelock, and there were a couple of solid lists on the front page of the thread.

It's cool that you want to cater to new players on the Pokegym, but what portion of the posters are new? What portion will want to keep talking about the nuances of the Luxchomp vs. Sablelock matchup?

Food for thought, nothing more; just my interpretation.

The thread you're referring to was locked because it has this LONG argument that was getting nastier and nastier (and many of the posts have been deleted). When I couldn't even delete enough posts to FIX the topic and redirect it, I locked it. Also, you took off an important part of that quote "two page discussion about whether or not the deck beats Gyrarados."

I don't lock threads to deter meaningful conversation; i lock posts to focus on meaningful conversation (or to combine multiple threads).

 

[XxMarcTx]

All of this is just great.

One issue ANY message board has is dealing with posts that were created for ATTENTION and have no intentions of generating thought-provoking discussion about anything useful. Some kids just want to be seen man; they just want to start a thread. So, if it's not BDIF threads, it's another thing (that the vets are tired of seeing). So, if we try to head the sentiment off at the pass, you'll end up with a million stickied threads

The great thing about our young crowd is, they are eager to partcipate. So, if we model a particular environment/appraoch/sentiment, they will follow (and report those who don't).

Having said all of that, I still like your idea of a stickied discussion of top three decks. This would be easy to do after checking out the "What Won" thread each tournament season. Big anticipated cards could be handled this way as well.

I, absolutely, love that input. Thanks Politoed :thumb:

This is why we have our own forum Rogue, the frustration in here is palpible and as thick as an odiferous expulsion from the nether reaches, let the kidz have it

 

[Yoshi-]

http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1912354&postcount=137

And you expect anyone to come here to get made fun of by mods because they complain about something and have their own opinion? Just a perfect example of the issue.

Just read Todds post from earlier, its spot on. Remember the "japanese cards are banned" thread? People were complaining because something that was in place forever just suddenly got removed. It seems like even P!P understood the issues players had and they changed their decision, they lstened to the players. But mods on this site are too busy making fun of people and acting like they dont have any right to speak or ask for anything.
This is a site where mods hate you if youre older then 8 years and dare to ask for anything as a customer instead of being happy that you get anything at all.

Just check out my nationals report. I made a mistake with my decklist, asked the headjudge what to do and did exactly what he told me. But it seems like a mod here has nothing better to do then spamming my thread for 3 sides, calling me a cheater, acting liek I did it on purpose and with any kind of "evil" intention (i used the wrong freaking GROTLE!!!?!?!?!?!) . I didnt do anything wrong but thanks to people spamming and calling me names I just expected to get an email next telling me Id get bannedf rom the game or something. That was bullying, nothing else!

No one would be ashamed to admit going to a pokemon side when speaking to a parent/mod. People just dont like going here. Especially when youre a "better" player, you dont really gain anything from it. The only reason to go here and help others would be that you feel like you own this place or you want to support this site, But when you have the feeling that the mods on this site hate you and youre not welcome anyway except to write some articles to promote this site? People will go to other sites, I dont feel like getting bullied on a pokemon site.

A message board should be a place where you can go to talk with friends / other players and you enjoy being there. I once had to explain to a friend that its not his fault that he cant choose another avatar, its just not possible. This place feels restricted and you feel like you're getting watched and are not taken serious anyway. Now tell me why would anyone put up with spamming "noobs" and stuff under these circumstances? Im very willing to help newer players, a kid from my league that I "Picked up" a year ago just won his first cc and tbh that was way cooler then me winning the cc.

But for this side to imrprove wed need some players added to the mods (or some lower rank, Idk) who can do something about beginners spamming threads with completly wrong and unedjucated opinions, people trolling with decks that probably dont exist etc. Yes Im talking about HIM. I know that newer players want to post their opinion as well and thats fine, to some point. Then wed need to enforce rules that stop people of making fun of newer players and instead showing them some guides or something. And people should start saying what they plan to do with a deck. If I see a deck which I know cant be competetive and the guy says he wants to win his next cc with it then Ill tell him that exactly. If he doesnt want to accept what other people tell him then Id ask him what the point of his thread was and then a mod could just close the entire thing.
Then wed need someone to read articles that plays this game enough to be able to judge the CONTENT of an article.

And you'd need to make people feel like theyre welcome here. Like Ive seen someone say on ********** "Why would you go there? It feels like the mods are all grumpy parents who hate you without you doing anything". And this has been like that for quite some time so its come to this "us vs them" situation. Not because people are ashamed of admitting that they went here once when they were "noobs". Thats just not true (or is rarely the issue). People arent ashamed of the fact that they asked for advice back then or feel like theyre to cool to admit that. People are just fed up with some things here and leave on rather bad terms.
This site is the best for any kind of offical discussion but for any kind of stuff you could do anywhere?

Just my 2 cents


PS: I wanna join the RA fanclub as well

 

[Kayle]

The thread you're referring to was locked because it has this LONG argument that was getting nastier and nastier (and many of the posts have been deleted). When I couldn't even delete enough posts to FIX the topic and redirect it, I locked it. Also, you took off an important part of that quote "two page discussion about whether or not the deck beats Gyrarados."

I don't know what you are talking about, honestly. Unless the topic took a serious and very fast turn downward when I wasn't looking (and I watched that topic quite a bit), discussion was heated, but otherwise tame. Feel free to PM me some of the posts you deleted or something? I just don't see it.

I'm pretty sure I copied and pasted your post into my quote box, but either way, I don't see how "whether or not the deck beats Gyarados" matters. It's a discussion about the deck. That's relevant to the topic.

I don't lock threads to deter meaningful conversation; i lock posts to focus on meaningful conversation (or to combine multiple threads).

but what if I am honestly curious about how the Sablelock matchup works?? Why wouldn't I go to the huge stickied SABLELOCK topic??

 

[Box of Fail]

I don't lock threads to deter meaningful conversation; i lock posts to focus on meaningful conversation (or to combine multiple threads).

If the members want it, it is meaningful; am I wrong? I think you should let members talk about whatever they feel is most meaningful, not what the mods feel is most meaningful.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

If the members want it, it is meaningful; am I wrong? I think you should let members talk about whatever they feel is most meaningful, not what the mods feel is most meaningful.

See. THIS is how things get convoluted.

I WILL NOT keep a flame thread open.

You guys are taking the Devil's Advocate thing too far.

I'm done with the subject. Sorry if you don't agree, but there needs to be a line drawn when considering how accomodating one can be before allowing an implosion.

 

[Kayle]

I'm sorry that you're done with the subject, because it really sounds like you are misinterpreting us.

Staying on topic doesn't have anything to do with flaming. You can stray off topic and still be in a state of helpful debate. You can stay on topic and be positively exploding with flames.

I didn't read your locking of the Sableye topic as preventing flaming, I read it as stopping people from discussing the matchup with Gyarados. And my experience with the topic was that, while people were trying to defend the weight of their accomplishments and their skill as a player - everyone was still staying relatively reasonable.

I guess I am misreading or missing something here?

 

[EeveeLover]

Geez Yoshi, nice to miss read my post. Sarcasm is a great thing, apparently for everyone else to use but the Staff of this site.

There were what, 5 or 6 topics all about the same thing - ratings, with the same people posting in them on this site. However, if you actually read the post I made, you will see that I stated my local players. I said nothing about anyone here, other than 'Patient - in here? Not likely.' I think everyone can agree that is true.

And, I am not sure if you missed it, but people are (and have been) complaining about the next set.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

I'm sorry that you're done with the subject, because it really sounds like you are misinterpreting us.

Staying on topic doesn't have anything to do with flaming. You can stray off topic and still be in a state of helpful debate. You can stay on topic and be positively exploding with flames.

I didn't read your locking of the Sableye topic as preventing flaming, I read it as stopping people from discussing the matchup with Gyarados. And my experience with the topic was that, while people were trying to defend the weight of their accomplishments and their skill as a player - everyone was still staying relatively reasonable.

I guess I am misreading or missing something here?

They were starting to take some pretty hard shots at each other. I couldn't leave it up.
I understand how you can read the 'cleaned up' version of the thread and think "what is WRONG with this guy??"

But... when I've gone over 15 mins of reading and deleting on ONE THREAD, it's time for that thread to die and the people to calm the heck down.

I see what you're saying though. But the thread was completely derailed.

 

[raw19]

Do you intend to try again with said thread, or let the sleeping dogs lie?

 

[Kayle]

They were starting to take some pretty hard shots at each other. I couldn't leave it up.
I understand how you can read the 'cleaned up' version of the thread and think "what is WRONG with this guy??"

But... when I've gone over 15 mins of reading and deleting on ONE THREAD, it's time for that thread to die and the people to calm the heck down.

I see what you're saying though. But the thread was completely derailed.

Well, you're the boss, and I really didn't intend to throw a fistful of embers into the air or anything. It's not like I don't trust you.

Yoshi, if the members are supposed to be able to be sarcastic and open-minded... why can't the admins?

 

[Jaeger]

Well, you're the boss, and I really didn't intend to throw a fistful of embers into the air or anything. It's not like I don't trust you.

Yoshi, if the members are supposed to be able to be sarcastic and open-minded... why can't the admins?

Positions of Authority are complicated and different. I'm allowed to swear in public, should President Obama? Better yet an off duty Police Officer in street clothes starts yelling harassing things at someone, how is it different when he's on duty in a Uniform?

 

[Kayle]

Positions of Authority are complicated and different. I'm allowed to swear in public, should President Obama? Better yet an off duty Police Officer in street clothes starts yelling harassing things at someone, how is it different when he's on duty in a Uniform?

Positions of authority are even more different when it's an online forum.

When you are in uniform or giving a state of the union address, you should act professional, just like I should act professional when I am at work.

But the admins of this site come here for fun just like you and I do. They are a bit two-faced.

 

[Jaeger]

Its still a position of authority, I'm not saying its right or wrong but they are held to a higher standard.

 

[Sages_Training]

Be as nice as possible without being a pushover, m'kay? Part of it is as simple as that.

We're during a transgressional period in history that focuses on raising children properly. Observe and see what's really going on, state it how they'll understand (even if they deny) and be firm.

It really seems like the biggest issue here is people posting without reading their stuff over...

Don't flame. It's counter-productive. Remember: you don't know who's on the other side of the screen or what issues they have.

No one will hate you for being decent. Do you lsoe anything for it? Do you gain anything for the opposite? If you need to let off too much steam from what a fool said, then you are some type of fool too. Children often get confused because of tone.

I think the only real answer is this and to have more people with some sort of power who are trusted and will talk to people and moderate threads.

 

[poke-a-mon]

2. If people wouldn't flame, there'd be no flame fest. Sometimes, it's like people blame THE MODS for other people's actions. It's like "they've gotten out of control in here. SEE MODS! You're useless!" I feel like typing "Man, nobody told that dude to say all of that!" But, that wouldn't be modeling maturity :biggrin:
-----------------------

I may be a tad late to the party, but please allow me to add my two cents.

From what I've read, it seems like the 'Gym members need to take more of a self-policing route in order to clean it up. If you were to say what you decide against, I think it would work out quite well. Since flaming and spamming seems to be quite a problem here, why not encourage peer-policing? Announce that it is also up to the members to keep the 'Gym a friendly place. Encourage (reasonable) reporting on such things. I suggest this because it appears that the mods are pressured to restore order, while the rest (and yes, that's a generaliation, I know many try to help) sit and say the end is nigh.

From my experience in online communities of all kinds, a singular, elitist group of people and a singular, beginner group will solve nothing. Aa has been already stated by many others, only a fostering community will uphold the Pokegym. Rather than seperate, we must assimiate. The entitlement phase that some members here are going through can only be solved by maturity, but I think much of the alienation can be solved simply by the better players "stepping down", and aiding the newer players. Make it so it is a friendly atmosphere, not a fearful one.

There has been a problem concerning newer players giving misinformation and such. Someone suggested employing a system to show our knowledge of the game. Peers give a 1-5 vote on our posts on how accurate the information within it is. If we employ this as a visible percentage (think trader feedback), this would be a great way for people to say "Hey, this guy seems to know what he's talking about. I should listen to him." This is a great suggestion. A possible addition to make would be that people could select a certain percentage and above that could post, ensuring accurate results.

The suggestion for newbie forum is excellent, and would be great in separating a little bit of the clutter. However, a definite solution to the entitlement and elitism problem eludes me, but it is in my belief that the elitism stems from entitlements and abbraisiveness from some newbies, which I have given a solution for above.

Again, this is only my two cents. You may like what you have read, you may not. Again, I know I am a bit late to the party with this post. However, I would enjoy a reply to see what you think.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

GRAVE ... DIGGAH ....
*insert spooky sounds here*