BW-on Rayeels for Regionals

[Chompy]

I am thinking of using this deck for regionals, and I want to hear what you guys think of the list.

Pokemon (15)

4 Tynamo (Thunder Wave)
4 Eelektrik
3 Rayquaza ex
1 Rayquaza (Shred)
2 Emolga
1 Victini (V-Create)

Energy (13)

8 Electric
5 Fire

Trainers (32)

4 Juniper
4 N
2 Colress
3 Ultra Ball
4 Switch
4 Catcher
3 Level Ball
2 Tool Scrapper
2 Sky Arrow Bridge
2 Skyla
1 Super Rod
1 Computer Search

Updated 4/1/13

 

[~Blazi-King~]

Victini-EX is great and all, but I do not like running it when there are several decks out there that can either OHKO it or set it up for a 3 prize ko.

I also don't see any emolga's in your deck. They are essential more than half the time for your set up. Without him your going to be lacking in setup in the beginning of the game which is key against big basics and speed darkrai's.

Here's what id suggest:
-1 Victini-EX
-1 Ulta Ball
-2 Bicycle
-3 Bianca
-1 Super Rod
-1 Lightning

+2 Emolga (Call for Family)
+1 Eelectrik
+2 Colress
+2 Skyla
+1 Switch
+1 Level Ball

 

[Chompy]

^
I remember you! Remember back in the day when we use to play on the Pokemon D/P game on Wi-Fi?


As far as the changes go, I'll go with everything you said, since I haven't really playtested this deck very much. The Emolgas were something I did not think of!

 

[~Blazi-King~]

^
I remember you! Remember back in the day when we use to play on the Pokemon D/P game on Wi-Fi?


As far as the changes go, I'll go with everything you said, since I haven't really playtested this deck very much. The Emolgas were something I did not think of!

Ohhhh, I remember you now!

Ive been playing this deck for over a year now, and ive had success!

If you want a more detailed explanation for the changes, let me know. I'd be glad to type it up! Ive managed Top 16 in back to back states with this deck (15th & 5th), and know a little bit about the changes I mentioned.

 

[Chompy]

Ohhhh, I remember you now!

Ive been playing this deck for over a year now, and ive had success!

If you want a more detailed explanation for the changes, let me know. I'd be glad to type it up! Ive managed Top 16 in back to back states with this deck (15th & 5th), and know a little bit about the changes I mentioned.

I would love to hear the input of why you made these changes.

On paper, Victini ex seems awesome, but in reality I could see it slow the deck down when you don't open with Victini ex.

Congratulations on placing 15th and 5th at the states!

 

[~Blazi-King~]

Here's what id suggest:
-1 Victini-EX
-1 Ulta Ball
-2 Bicycle
-3 Bianca
-1 Super Rod
-1 Lightning

+2 Emolga (Call for Family)
+1 Eelectrik
+2 Colress
+2 Skyla
+1 Switch
+1 Level Ball

Ok here goes a run down of why I made the changes I did in your deck:

Victini EX: Upside - energy acceleration and a decent attack against opposing EX's. Downside - Gives up two prizes very easily in this format currently. The metagame has been shifting to OHKO's with Hypnotoxic Laser and at least 80-110 damage every turn. Especially Darkrai decks. They run Dark Claw, and Hypnotoxic Laser making the damage output at least 130 coming back into your turn. So Victini-EX is a Auto 2 prizes for them. Against Mirror, all I have to do is put my fire on Ray Ray and Dynamotor 2 L instead of 3 L (for most EX's) to get the two prizes.

Emolga: Is essential to the decks success. Others will say its not, but many will agree with my assessment. Early game it's searchable with your Level/Ultra Balls, and the upped switches and skyarow make it possible to get him active. He allows you to get your Tyn's and Ray's early. In most of my games I have been fully setup Turn 2 with 3 eel's and 2 Ray Ray's and at least 120 damage. Though without him, I struggle to even get one-two out and a ray doing 0-60...

Eel: Having 4 Eel, makes the consistency of the deck go up tremendously. I had a issue at SC states where I had 3 Eel's prized. So had I only been running 3, I would have been doomed. Having 4 against Big Basic's also keeps you from running out of the Eels, seeing as how they are the target when facing this deck.

Skyla: This card is amazing two fold. Say your only supporter is a skyla, and it is early game. Then use this card to get a beloved Juniper for the following turn. It keeps your from getting "draw stuck." Also mid to late game, this card becomes valuable, allowing you to search for your Items (Catcher, Switch, Etc) for which you need, when you need them. I can't count how many times this card has saved me or won me games allowing me to grab the catcher or switch to win the game, to where as I would have been stuck or lost those games.

Switch: 4 is a must have. It allows you to pull off 2 Pokemon switches (one retreat with Skyarrow, Dynamotor, then switch). This is key. Not only that, but it gets you out of Hypnotoxic Laser (Sleep especially). Allowing you to continue the aggressiveness, and attacking.

Level Ball: Having 3 of these I have found, makes the deck more consistent. You dont have to focus on Ultra Ball to set you up, plus its another card to thin the deck, which makes drawing the cards you need, when you need them key.

Ultra Ball: 4 becomes really bulky, so only 3 is needed. Especially with Juniper. Those 2 (Ultra Ball/Juniper) right there is a ton of discarding, so too much of a good thing can be bad. Especially mid-late game. Unless your sure you have the cards you need in your deck for the immediate win, i'd hold off late game using these.

Bicycle: Is a great card in all, but you want to focus on Cards that help you, and this is achieved with drawing as many cards as possible and mid-late game when your board is full Colress does a much better job netting you anywhere from 5-10 cards, better than bicycle which can get you anywhere from 1-4. Even if the Colress is a supporter.

Bianca: Same as Bicycle.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I am thinking of using this deck for regionals, and I want to hear what you guys think of the list.

Pokemon (15)

4 Tynamo (Thunder Wave)
4 Eelektrik
3 Rayquaza ex
1 Rayquaza (Shred)
2 Emolga
1 Victini (V-Create)

Energy (13)

8 Electric
5 Fire

Trainers (32)

4 Juniper
4 N
2 Colress
3 Ultra Ball
4 Switch
4 Catcher
3 Level Ball
2 Tool Scrapper
2 Sky Arrow Bridge
2 Skyla
1 Super Rod
1 Computer Search

Updated 4/1/13

A few additional thoughts/comments for your consideration for someone else who runs RayEels too:

-1 Rayquaza (Shred). Definitely not a good starter since it has a "heavy" retreat cost and you need to discard your top 2 cards for its Dragon Pulse attack. I understand that its main purpose is for Shredding, but not sure if it would be better than another...
+1 Emolga. To increase your chances of starting with this Poké.

-1 Victini. Not a good starter and easily donk-able. With its "low" HP and full bench requirement, I've found this Poké not to be very useful or too "situational."
+1 Reshiram. On the other hand, this Poké has significantly more HP, a decent starter, not easily 1HKOd early game, and both attacks are quite useful.

-2 Colress. IMHO, this draw Supporter is not as versatile as another. Consider early game when you are trying to setup your bench, your opponent is concurrently tyring to KO any/all of your Tynamos/Eelektriks. Even mid-to-late game, there's a good chance you may not play with a full bench purposely - trying to limit your easy KO targets. So, you may not get the full benefit of this card throughout the whole game. When you playtest, I'd suggest you playtest ALOT against LMT and LMTG decks (Landorus-Mewto-Tornadus with/without Garbodor). Landorus EX and Darkrai EX based decks will tend to give this deck fits since they both can impede your setup.
+2 Bianca. IMHO, a better card draw Supporter since I've found Bianca to be more consistent throughout the entire game. Playtesting will help you decide which works best for you.

-1 Switch. Lesser priority of the other possible options. Besides, when your Eels are Catchered, you, more than likely, will not be Switching them back to the bench since they are likely to be KOd.
+1 Energy Retrieval. I strongly suggest you don't rely on having to "luckily" draw into a Fire energy. Keep in mind your Fire energy will be prime targets for Hammers; so, an ER allows you to easily retrieve the Fire energy directly from your discard pile when needed. Also, with only 1 Super Rod, you may find yourself recovering Poké quite often.

Hope you find these comments helpful.

 

[RichD]

A few additional thoughts/comments for your consideration for someone else who runs RayEels too:

-1 Rayquaza (Shred). Definitely not a good starter since it has a "heavy" retreat cost and you need to discard your top 2 cards for its Dragon Pulse attack. I understand that its main purpose is for Shredding, but not sure if it would be better than another...
+1 Emolga. To increase your chances of starting with this Poké.

If you expect to face the RayEels mirror in your meta, then I would keep the Baby Rayquaza

-1 Victini. Not a good starter and easily donk-able. With its "low" HP and full bench requirement, I've found this Poké not to be very useful or too "situational."
+1 Reshiram. On the other hand, this Poké has significantly more HP, a decent starter, not easily 1HKOd early game, and both attacks are quite useful.

If you are playing Victini as a Plasmklang tech, then the higher damage for lower energy is a better fit. If you are having trouble filling your bench in a game, then you have bigger problems that your choice of fire tech. I played Moltres over Victini for the same reasoning given for using Reshiram and every time I needed my fire tech, I had a full bench and Moltres that just wasn't doing the damage needed to get the job done.

-2 Colress.
+2 Bianca. IMHO, a better card draw Supporter since I've found Bianca to be more consistent throughout the entire game. Playtesting will help you decide which works best for you.

My playtesting had Colress as far more useful than Bianca but the advice to try out different combos and see what works for you is spot on.

-1 Switch. Lesser priority of the other possible options. Besides, when your Eels are Catchered, you, more than likely, will not be Switching them back to the bench since they are likely to be KOd.
+1 Energy Retrieval. I strongly suggest you don't rely on having to "luckily" draw into a Fire energy. Keep in mind your Fire energy will be prime targets for Hammers; so, an ER allows you to easily retrieve the Fire energy directly from your discard pile when needed. Also, with only 1 Super Rod, you may find yourself recovering Poké quite often.

Hope you find these comments helpful.

I agree with the need to have more than one card to retrieve Pokes and energy from the discard but I would suggest adding a second super rod rather than energy retrieval. On a similar note it is why I play Dowsing Machine as my Ace Spec so I can reuse a Super Rod or Energy search if needed.

 

[~Blazi-King~]

Chompy, how did the changes go? Were they successful for you?

 

[Chompy]

After a few games with the changes that were made, I realized this deck doesnt do too well against Big Basics, which my area plays by the way. So, I wound up running the Bladtoise/Keldeo deck for regionals.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I've played "big basics" in the recent State tournaments and 1-2 RayEels players made the Top 8... (1 made it to the finals in IL).

I also play RayEels and play against big basics decks too. One difference between your deck and mine is that I run Reshiram and Zekrom as my preferred starters (no Emolga nor Victini). Those Poké "gladly" take early damage (if my opponent chooses to attack; sometimes he/she doesn't... lol) since I can retaliate with Outrage and either KO one of the big EXs (e.g., Tornadus) or inflict heavy damage.

Another key differrence in our decks is that I play 2 Super Rods - I do expect to lose Tynamos early. The 2 SRs have definitely allowed me to recover and come from behind to win games. By the way, are you benching MULTIPLE Tynamos when you do play them? This helps to ensure 1-2 survives the early opponent attacks.

Lastly, I think I have 1-2 Max Potions in my deck. For big basics to have a "level playing field," those players attack your Eels and Tynamos taking, typically, 1 prize at a time. When Ray EX is ready, he's taking 2 prizes in hopefully 3 consecutive turns - if all goes well. Ray EX is truly a big, bad monster.

Like BKEX, Ray EX is the only other Poké that can 1HKO any Poké in the format today, and RayEels is a tough matchup for any deck. You still have a few more days to make deck revisions and playtest RayEels.

Best of luck to you with whatever deck you decide to play at Regionals.


- - - - - - - - Edit (4/11) - - - - - - - - -
Keldeo EX with a sufficient amount of energy can also 1HKO any Poké in the game too.

 

[~Blazi-King~]

I've played "big basics" in the recent State tournaments and 1-2 RayEels players made the Top 8... (1 made it to the finals in IL).

I also play RayEels and play against big basics decks too. One difference between your deck and mine is that I run Reshiram and Zekrom as my preferred starters (no Emolga nor Victini). Those Poké "gladly" take early damage (if my opponent chooses to attack; sometimes he/she doesn't... lol) since I can retaliate with Outrage and either KO one of the big EXs (e.g., Tornadus) or inflict heavy damage.

Another key differrence in our decks is that I play 2 Super Rods - I do expect to lose Tynamos early. The 2 SRs have definitely allowed me to recover and come from behind to win games. By the way, are you benching MULTIPLE Tynamos when you do play them? This helps to ensure 1-2 survives the early opponent attacks.

Lastly, I think I have 1-2 Max Potions in my deck. For big basics to have a "level playing field," those players attack your Eels and Tynamos taking, typically, 1 prize at a time. When Ray EX is ready, he's taking 2 prizes in hopefully 3 consecutive turns - if all goes well. Ray EX is truly a big, bad monster.

Like BKEX, Ray EX is the only other Poké that can 1HKO any Poké in the format today, and RayEels is a tough matchup for any deck. You still have a few more days to make deck revisions and playtest RayEels.

Best of luck to you with whatever deck you decide to play at Regionals.

I was wondering, which States did you go to?

I have also been contemplating a Max Potion and a second Super Rod or Dowsing Machine as my Ace Spec. Thoughts?, so that Chompy may see them as well.

 

[bullados]

The 2nd Super Rod is just about a necessity in Eels. You will lose your Eel material early against BBP. You will lose a LOT of Eel early against BBP. The 2nd Rod lets you get those Eels back to reload quickly.

I'm still not a fan of Emolga (if it had 80 HP or searched 3 I'd like it more), but it is a necessary evil of the deck. I'm finding that it's much more difficult to get those 3 Eels into play T2 without it.

I also run 6 Switching cards (and am looking for space for a 7th really) to help ensure the T1 Emolga.

Ultra and Level are so critical to the success of this deck. I'd probably take out the two Skyla for more of them. The T1 Emolga is so huge, and then they get you out of really, really tight spots later in the game.

 

[~Blazi-King~]

The 2nd Super Rod is just about a necessity in Eels. You will lose your Eel material early against BBP. You will lose a LOT of Eel early against BBP. The 2nd Rod lets you get those Eels back to reload quickly.

I'm still not a fan of Emolga (if it had 80 HP or searched 3 I'd like it more), but it is a necessary evil of the deck. I'm finding that it's much more difficult to get those 3 Eels into play T2 without it.

I also run 6 Switching cards (and am looking for space for a 7th really) to help ensure the T1 Emolga.

Ultra and Level are so critical to the success of this deck. I'd probably take out the two Skyla for more of them. The T1 Emolga is so huge, and then they get you out of really, really tight spots later in the game.

Ok, after my experiences with BBP in Top 16 and Top 8, I am convinced on the 2nd Super Rod.

Yea, I agree, if Emolga was like Pachirisu in getting 3 basics, id love it more, but as you said "necassary evil of the deck."

I find that 3/3 Ultra/Level ball are sufficient in the aspect of getting the Emolga in play. In my last 17 games, both ending in Top Cut, not once did I not start with Emolga or get him in play T1. But I am considering more switching cards and consistancy such as Dowsing Machine. Possibly the Max Potion as was evident in the 2012 season. Look at Nance's Eels (Runner-Up [2nd Place] Us Nats 2012), he ran at least one in his to negate the impacts of Darkrai. The same now applies with Landorus. It helps keep the Tynamo's from getting KO'd or the Eelektrik from the same when catchered (Assuming HTL/Virbank isn't in play yet).

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I was wondering, which States did you go to?

IL, WI and IN.

I have also been contemplating a Max Potion and a second Super Rod or Dowsing Machine as my Ace Spec. Thoughts?, so that Chompy may see them as well.

For me, I found the 2nd Super Rod to be critical more times than not.

Against big basics or even Darkrai decks, the Max Potions forces opponents into a 3-4HKO position and sets opponents "behind" since he/she cannot 1HKO the Rays. Also, discarding the energy for complete healing is no big deal either - you can just Dynamotor the L energy right back onto the newly healed Ray.

In my deck, I chose Computer Search as my preferred Ace Spec. This was a very simple decision:

• Gold Potion may not heal enough damage to prevent a KO on my opponent's next turn.
• Scramble Switch is just not that effective in the deck since you are discarding L (in this deck version)energy; so, you don't get the benefit of moving 2+ energy onto your new active. The Eels via Dynamotor provide the necessary energy-attachment acceleration which is quite sufficient.
• Dowsing Machine is also not that effective in this deck since you can run lots of Supporters.

 

[~Blazi-King~]

IL, WI and IN.


For me, I found the 2nd Super Rod to be critical more times than not.

Against big basics or even Darkrai decks, the Max Potions forces opponents into a 3-4HKO position and sets opponents "behind" since he/she cannot 1HKO the Rays. Also, discarding the energy for complete healing is no big deal either - you can just Dynamotor the L energy right back onto the newly healed Ray.

In my deck, I chose Computer Search as my preferred Ace Spec. This was a very simple decision:

• Dowsing Machine is also not that effective in this deck since you can run lots of Supporters.

I can see the Max Potion, which I have since added. Along with the Dowsing Machine.

I think that Dowsing Machine is a much better, consistent option for the Ace Spec. It allows me to cut spaces for cards while giving me that consistency that is needed for a deck to win a tournament. So I have elected to go with 3 Switches, 2 Super Rod, 1 Max Potion, 1 Dowsing Machine. The Dowsing Machine allows me to be able to get what I want out of my discard (Trainer-wise) when I need it. May that be a 5th Catcher, 4th Switch/Level/Ultra Ball, 3rd Skyarrow, 3rd Super Rod, 3rd Skyla, 2nd Max Potion, or a 5th Juniper/N. I would like to add in a Tool Scrapper for those pesky Eviolites in BB, and for the Garby matchups, with that being said Dowsing Machine would also give me the consistency/versatility to have a 2nd Tool Scrapper

I am also thinking about taking out the Baby Ray and Keldeo and a couple energy for 2 Mewtwo and some Double Colorless Energy, Seeing as how they didn't serve the purpose I thought they would. Or changing the 1 of the Fires and 1 Electric to Water for the Keldeo allowing me to setup a OHKO stacking the 2 Waters for a OHKO on Landy. (Assuming there is no Eviolite).

Thoughts?

 

[bullados]

Mewtwo is there to OHKO other Mewtwos.

Rayquaza EX does that more efficiently without being as much of a glass cannon.

And if you don't have the Baby Ray, you lose the mirror.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I am also thinking about taking out the Baby Ray and Keldeo and a couple energy for 2 Mewtwo and some Double Colorless Energy, Seeing as how they didn't serve the purpose I thought they would.
Thoughts?

Little Ray does serve a useful purpose - it can 1HKO BKEX (2 for 1 exchange), as well as inflict damage onto defending Poké ignoring active effects the defending Poké may have.

Hmmm.... MEels??? Outstanding. I know several players who run Mewtwo EX along with Rayquaza EX. Mewtwo EX is still one of the best attacker in game today; X-ball is simply awesome. Btw, at the IL State Top 4, there were 2 Eels decks: Ray was featured in one and Mewtwo was the primary attacker in the other.

Or changing the 1 of the Fires and 1 Electric to Water for the Keldeo allowing me to setup a OHKO stacking the 2 Waters for a OHKO on Landy. (Assuming there is no Eviolite).
Thoughts?

I'd suggest not adding any W energy to the deck. Ray can easily 1HKO any Poké in the game today, including Landorus EX. Besides, as soon as you get 8 damage counters on a Lando, it's immediately a prime target for Keldeo EX with 3 attached energy (e.g., L and/or R). So, IMHO, the W energy is really not needed. Also keep in mind you will need at least 2 turns to power-up Keldeo with W energy without a Scramble Switch.

 

[~Blazi-King~]

Mewtwo is there to OHKO other Mewtwos.

Rayquaza EX does that more efficiently without being as much of a glass cannon.

And if you don't have the Baby Ray, you lose the mirror.

Bullados,

I know that Mewtwo can be open ended, but isn't it worth it since it easier to get setup? With the speed of the deck it's very viable to win the Mewtwo war or switch to Ray once you are set up...

I disagree that if I dont have Baby Ray I lose the mirror. Quite the opposite, I haven't lost to mirror yet, and that was with not using him. It all depended on who got the first Ray EX KO to have the advantage. And this is having played against 6 mirrors in both States. The only usefulness it had was against the Garchomp in NC States Swiss, and Top Cut where I started with him for the Donk, 3 out of the 4 games we played.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

I think that Dowsing Machine is a much better, consistent option for the Ace Spec. It allows me to cut spaces for cards while giving me that consistency that is needed for a deck to win a tournament. So I have elected to go with 3 Switches, 2 Super Rod, 1 Max Potion, 1 Dowsing Machine. The Dowsing Machine allows me to be able to get what I want out of my discard (Trainer-wise) when I need it. May that be a 5th Catcher, 4th Switch/Level/Ultra Ball, 3rd Skyarrow, 3rd Super Rod, 3rd Skyla, 2nd Max Potion, or a 5th Juniper/N. I would like to add in a Tool Scrapper for those pesky Eviolites in BB, and for the Garby matchups, with that being said Dowsing Machine would also give me the consistency/versatility to have a 2nd Tool Scrapper.

Excellent points. I will review this card again after Regionals.



Chompy,

For comparison purposes, following is my current decklist:

Pokémon (16)
4 - Eelektrik
1 - Mewtwo EX
1 - Raikou EX (least favorite card in deck)
1 - Rayquaza (Shred)
3 - Rayquaza EX
1 - Reshiram
2 - Tynamo (Spark)
2 - Tynamo (Thunder Wave)
1 - Zekrom

Trainers (30)
3 - Bianca
1 - Colress
1 - Energy Retrieval
1 - Escape Rope
3 - Level Ball
2 - Max Potion
4 - N
3 - Pokémon Catcher
3 - Professor Juniper
1 - Skyarrow Bridge
2 - Super Rod
2 - Switch
4 - Ultra Ball

Energy Retrieval (14)
4 - Fire
10 Lightning

I usually carry 3 decks to a tournament. This one will definitely be in my bag.