Okay, so I've been working day and night on my SP deck, teching it throughout Battle Roads, changing cards, practicing vs. various match-ups, and one question I still haven't solved is the Chatot vs. Rosarade. Both cards seem to have various advantages, Rosarade allowing you to draw two prizes in the same turn (one for poison, one for attack), but chatot being able to stall indefinitely, and give out hand refreshers. Both have performed very well for my in the past, and help with my sablelock/vilegar match-ups significantly, but I haven't been able to fully decide on going either way, but have even considered running both. Anyways, my question falls under more personal opinion then anything. Which do you think is better? Chatot, or Rosarade, and why?
Rosarade GL vs. Chatot MD
- Thread starter Caleb
- Start date
Deoxys Cool Form
New Member
I'd say Chatot is the better card, but I play niether in my list as while they're both good cards, you have better options.
Deoxys Cool Form
New Member
Smeargle is the better card.
I've tried smeargle, and I agree with pretty much everyone that I play with that it's a waste. Takes up bench space, is ERL bait, and requires you to spend two/three of your collecter to search for the unown q/smeargle. In an SP deck where things are cramped, I just have trouble finding room for something that seems like a liability.
Deoxys Cool Form
New Member
Isn't that the same with Chatot though?
They have to burn a Warp Energy to get out etc
---------- Post added 10/12/2010 at 03:56 PM ----------
I see Smeargle as a staple, and nearly all of the really good players play the card - even in non SP decks. Uxie and Claydol both took up bench space, required search supporters/trainers to be wasted on them and were ERL bait. I'd rather risk that, then go into any SP mirror with a huge disadvantage or have a deck that is inconsistent and has issues setting up.
Thing is, after extensive play testing, it hasn't increased my consistency at all. In fact, it's made my deck clunkier. Uxie has undeniable benefit. Claydol, well SP didn't really play claydol extensively anyways. Smeargle, it may or may not help, and there's better stuff I could be putting into my deck. Taking out the smeargle allows me one more card to counter other SP decks, and in my experience there hasn't been one time where I draw the card I replaced it with (I know exactly what it was replaced with), and have had the thought "Oh man, wish I would have drawn that smeargle!" I don't know, maybe it's just a difference in our meta, but the card itself just seems to lack anything for midgame support. I'd much rather have the second chomp, or ambipom on the bench.
losjackal
Technical Administrator
It seems to be that Smeargle is best for two things:
1. Mid-game help setting up again, by stalling and letting you use an opponent's supporter after you have exhausted all of your own options, even as a sacrificial prize.
2. Baiting power sprays
Have an Unown Q on it is excellent, but I'd suggest don't worry about pulling a Q right away. Put the Smeargle up front and let it sit there until you're nicely set up. Then worry about retreating it. Worst case scenario one energy to retreat is not a big deal if you can afford the attachment for the turn.
In terms of colorless techs that stall and help you set up, my opinion is it's a tossup between Smeargle and Chatot. Smeargle can help disrupt your opponent if you catch them with a Judge or Looker's, but Chatot has free retreat and can Chatter lock a Spiritomb. If you don't have space for Smeargle, you probably don't have space for Chatot either. (Roserade GL is a different issue, since it's an staller by attacking.)
1. Mid-game help setting up again, by stalling and letting you use an opponent's supporter after you have exhausted all of your own options, even as a sacrificial prize.
2. Baiting power sprays
Have an Unown Q on it is excellent, but I'd suggest don't worry about pulling a Q right away. Put the Smeargle up front and let it sit there until you're nicely set up. Then worry about retreating it. Worst case scenario one energy to retreat is not a big deal if you can afford the attachment for the turn.
In terms of colorless techs that stall and help you set up, my opinion is it's a tossup between Smeargle and Chatot. Smeargle can help disrupt your opponent if you catch them with a Judge or Looker's, but Chatot has free retreat and can Chatter lock a Spiritomb. If you don't have space for Smeargle, you probably don't have space for Chatot either. (Roserade GL is a different issue, since it's an staller by attacking.)
You're assuming that I need a smeargle to assist in mid-game set-up. It's not really necessary. If I'm going to use something to give up a prize, I'll drop an azelf or an uxie as my active. At least then that's something that would be stuck on my bench anyways. Also I don't understand how having an chatot means I shouldn't have room for smeargle. They serve completely different purpose. Chatot helps with the sableye/tombs of the world where as smeargle serves more use in the mirror match. I'm not doubting that smeargle is a decent card, but I am saying that it takes up bench space for something that isn't dependable. Chatot vs. Smeargle is equivalent to saying Consistency vs. Inconsistency. Chatot has a attack that is guaranteed to do something, smeargle is just a luck sack, that may or may not help. Anyways, the point I was trying to make here wasn't about chatot vs. smeargle, I've tried smeargle, it doesn't work for me. My debate was rather to play a chatot, or a rosarade GL.
losjackal
Technical Administrator
We agree they both stall, right? They are both colorless and for a DCE can hit for 20 on average. But yes in terms of "helping you" they do it in different ways. If your deck doesn't need help recovering mid-game and you want to continue attacking one way or another, you're right that the choice is Chatot or Roserade GL. But your criticism of Smeargle (especially suggesting that you have to use 2/3 of a collector to get the Q at the same time) invited a different perspective of how to use it. In particular, attempting to bait a power spray each turn so that your opponent doesn't have it later to stop your Bright Look/Healing Breath seems like a viable technique.
Once again, you're missing the point. I'm not very much concerned about the mirror, I'm concerned about vilegar/sablelock. Both of which chatot/rosarade can help with. Rather smeargle is really a good card or not, doesn't bother me, nor does the fact that it can stall. I don't need another card to push active just to have it get knocked out for a prize. I already have enough of those. As far as dragging sprays, I don't really need that either, I have more than enough powers in my deck that my opponent will burn through them faster than necessary. Once again, my question doesn't relate to smeargle, it relates to rosarade vs. chatot.
JohnnyBlaze
New Member
This is for T1 ohko strategy:Think outside of the box for using Smeargle in SP. You start with it then Portrait a Collector out of your opponents hand. Search your deck for Q, Ambipom G, and whatever. Attach Q to Smeargle then attache DCE to Ambipom for the donk!!
TheGeneral
Active Member
Chatot = amazing. Saved me multiple games, especially against SP and last seasons decks like Gyarados and Shuppet. Mimic for 15? Yes please :thumb:
Roserade means unless they want to give up two prizes in one turn, they'll warp it out. On the other hand, Chatot, they just wait till time and warp out.
I'm not sure why player's post these kind of threads in the Strategy sub-forum. I figure this would be MUCH better suited for the Deck Help forum where we can see the other 59 cards you have in your deck and we can then give you a credible assesment.
I mean, these two card don't even do the same thing!
(PS short answer; neither, you dont need them, but its up to playstyle)
I mean, these two card don't even do the same thing!
(PS short answer; neither, you dont need them, but its up to playstyle)
Well, the post is here because it's asking about two cards that do roughly the same thing. And that is to lock your opponent's pokemon in the active position, stall for a bit, then kill it. It's the perfect thing for spiritomb.
The biggest difference I see is that Roserade is an SP and supports that side of your deck. On the other hand, Chatot is amazing with free hand refresh. I would almost play it for that over the chatter lock. (even though chatter lock is SOOO yummy)
The only thing I'm confused about... How does Roserade GL take 2 prizes?
Psyco Pedestrian
New Member
Let's say your opponent has a Sableye as their active. You use Poison Bind, that puts them at 20, then 30 at the end of their turn. You Poison Bind again on your turn, putting them at 50 due to Poison. Sableye is knocked out at the END of their turn, giving you a turn to knock another Pokemon out, via Dragon Rush (or w/e you are using).
Caleb, just go with Roserade, you have seen what it does
I didn't do the poison calcs, I'd 2 evos+1 poison bind is already 50/60, drop bat, ko it, take out their oddish line poke with luxray/uxie or garchomp