Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Rotation time and likelihood. When and How far back?

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Indeed, I'd think any deck already able to easily justify the inclusion of Sableye will find things to its advantage. Plus we still have N, so if you end up a little behind in Prizes from having to sacrifice Sableye, even that isn't the end of the game.
 
My gut is telling me TM-On, but I have no logic to back that up lol. I strongly feel that the rotation is going to be Call of Legends on. I have quite a few things to back that up:
  • Change in Ultra Rares, technically it's its own set block.
  • Reprints: Pokémon reprinted certain cards because they felt they were healthy for the format. A format without Dual Ball would be disgusting. Stage 2 would be completely dead. Level Ball is not a viable way to get +2 basics on your bench on the first turn. Things like Ninetails, PONT, Copycat, Sage's Training, Cleffa and Dual Ball make a healthy format. Black and White on simply wouldn't have enough of a hand refresh engine. Luck of the draw plays too large of a role without these hand refresh cards that they re-introduced.
  • The professor cup being CoL- On. IDK if that really means anything, but it is interesting that that format is going to be used.
  • Pokémon has already said that they like to rotate 4 sets per season. Last season was an exception because stupid Sableye was the misbehaved kid that ruined the pizza party for everyone, and P!P doesn't understand you can ban select cards instead of rotating to a 5 set format... If the oldest four sets are cut (HS, UL, UD, TM) the format will be CoL-On.

Call of Legends - On is a much more healthy format than Black and White - On. There aren't any broken attackers, just needed support cards. BW-on would be a format way too reliant on top decks. CoL-on makes the most sense.
 
1. The ultra rares were just shiny cards that Japan gave out as prizes, and we just got them stuffed into our set. However, BW-On does have a whole new card design and Ultra Rares, in the form of FA cards.

2. BW-On works perfect in Japan. Plenty of stage two decks are doing amazing, namely Hydreigon/Darkrai and Garchomp/Altaria.

3. Doesn't matter. Whenever it was Platinum-On, we ended up with MD-On.

4. Meh. The TCG lately has a tendency to not follow formulas.

But we will find out when we find out.
 
Vulpix Yolk said:
Reprints: Pokémon reprinted certain cards because they felt they were healthy for the format. A format without Dual Ball would be disgusting. Stage 2 would be completely dead. Level Ball is not a viable way to get +2 basics on your bench on the first turn. Things like Ninetails, PONT, Copycat, Sage's Training, Cleffa and Dual Ball make a healthy format. Black and White on simply wouldn't have enough of a hand refresh engine. Luck of the draw plays too large of a role without these hand refresh cards that they re-introduced.
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A few counterpoints I want to address. Even though Level Ball may not be the most efficient way to get Basic Pokemon out we are getting several consistency cards that do help out. Emolga BW5 has Call For Family to look for two Pokemon and free retreat cost. Japanese players also played with Roserade SZD to look for any one card when played, Venusaur DEX to look for any Pokemon each turn, and Musharna NXD to dig deeper into the deck. Supporters are pretty lackluster as we will only have Professor Juniper, Bianca, Cheren, and N, but two of the four cards do refresh your hand. We also have to consider the future sets and what they will have. The speed of the format should be slow enough for many decks to be somewhat viable (we can't really rely too much on the Spring Battle Carnival as the tournament structure is entirely different to international play).

Vulpix Yolk said:
The professor cup being CoL- On. IDK if that really means anything, but it is interesting that that format is going to be used.
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It doesn't really mean much actually if we were to look back at past Professor Cups as it proves to be an inconsistent argument:

'11 - '12 -- Format: HS-on -- Professor Cup: COL-on
'10 - '11 -- Format: MD-on -- Professor Cup: HGSS-on
'09 - '10 -- Format: DP-on -- Professor Cup: PT-on (30 Card Deck)
'08 - '09 -- Format: DP-on -- Professor Cup: Solomon's Draft
'07 - '08 -- Format: HP-on -- Professor Cup: Can't find information
'06 - '07 -- Format: DX-on -- Professor Cup: DX-on (30 Card Deck)
'05 - '06 -- Format: HL-on -- Professor Cup: Sealed Deck(?)
'04 - '05 -- Format: RS-on -- Professor Cup: Sealed Deck
'03 - '04 -- Format: Expedition-on -- Professor Cup: Can't find information
Vulpix Yolk said:
Pokémon has already said that they like to rotate 4 sets per season. Last season was an exception because stupid Sableye was the misbehaved kid that ruined the pizza party for everyone, and P!P doesn't understand you can ban select cards instead of rotating to a 5 set format... If the oldest four sets are cut (HS, UL, UD, TM) the format will be CoL-On.
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I really find the 4 sets rotated out argument to be inconsistent as well with the facts. Of course, I would like to see a direct source where P!P clearly specified that they preferred to do a 4 set rotation each season. I'm sure that they understand that they can ban cards, but why ban cards when we already have rotations being enforced each season?

'11 - '12 -- Format: HS-on -- Rotated Sets: 7 -- Introduced Sets: 4 -- Kept Sets: 6
'10 - '11 -- Format: MD-on -- Rotated Sets: 4 -- Introduced Sets: 4 -- Kept Sets: 9
'08 - '10 -- Format: DP-on -- Rotated Sets: 4 -- Introduced Sets: 8 -- Kept Sets: 5 ('09 - '10 No Rotation)
'07 - '08 -- Format: HP-on -- Rotated Sets: 5 -- Introduced Sets: 3 -- Kept Sets: 6
'06 - '07 -- Format: DX-on -- Rotated Sets: 3 -- Introduced Sets: 3 -- Kept Sets: 6
'05 - '06 -- Format: HL-on -- Rotated Sets: 4 -- Introduced Sets: 4 -- Kept Sets: 5
'04 - '05 -- Format: RS-on -- Rotated Sets: 3 -- Introduced Sets: 4 -- Kept Sets: 5
'03 - '04 -- Format: Expedition-on (First year Nintendo/Pokemon USA took over)

Numbers are based on when Worlds took place rather than introducing new sets as we do have sets released before and after worlds. Might need some fact checking as I don't have all the dates for Worlds, but I'm sure all sets released during August or near Worlds' date weren't included into the format. Also, whether or not we do get most or all of BW5(Dragon Blade/Dragon Blast) and Half Deck(Hydreigon/Garchomp) is also need to take into consideration if we do a small set of around 100 or if we were to do larger sets.

Another thing to consider is that Battle Carnival, both Spring and Fall, were a BW-on format. Their Gym Challenges consisted of many different formats ranging from BW-on, L1-on(HS-on), and DP-on(Palace). The Gym Challenges could also be 30 card decks and 60 card decks. Although, the Gym Challenges are more or less a shop tournaments. Spring Battle Carnival was the World's Qualifier, and I can't find anything saying that Fall was also one as well. Just some more facts for everyone
 
I still think that no rotation is the best choice. I don't know what benefit rotating any sets right now would be. I mean limited the card pool in a format in which is dominated by new cards seems pointless, unless you want said cards to run even more rampant. However this point is moot, as they have definitely already made a choice on what it will be, if I had to guess we'll find out this week or next. I'd be absolutely shocked if we don't know by the end of BRs in two weeks or so.

Drew
 
BW-on would be the best rotation, since it's what Japan did and it actually worked, as already stated. It also provides a clean cut to new cards, meaning new players don't have to learn about Poké-Powers, Primes, Legends and all the HGSS-stuff. Also, there are no transitional rulings regarding trainers, supporters, items etc.

The only thing that lets me doubt about BW-on is that P!P stated (when they made no rotation) that there should be more sets in modified. However, I still think going with Japan is the best we can do this year.
 
Anything other than BW-on would be a disappointment. PCL creates cards based on the format used in Japan. Japan uses BW-on, and thus cards are being designed to work in a BW-on format. If you do any other rotation, combinations that were meant to exist won't, or combinations that were never supposed to exist will. Gardy/Gallade was never supposed to be able to use DRE or Scramble.
 
Vulpix Yolk said:
My gut is telling me TM-On, but I have no logic to back that up lol. I strongly feel that the rotation is going to be Call of Legends on. I have quite a few things to back that up:
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Before we even get into your facts, I've got to point out that your opening sounds contradictory. Generally speaking, when your "gut" tells you something, it is referred to as a "gut feeling". There is actually some research about that, but it is besides the point, since even though you did add some "facts" to support your assertion for CoL-On, but you still refer to it as a "feeling".

Yes, this is somewhat nitpicky but I had to point out the fact it is something of a pun. :lol: I forgot that CoL-On sounds like colon, which can be a punctuation mark (":") or a term for your large intenstine... "gut feeling". According to Wikipedia there are actually a few other definitions, one which might make this a "double pun" but... yeah enough of this. :rolleyes:

Now to address your list of points:

1) Call of Legends is classified as its own set block. This makes it easier to retain but otherwise does not mean it must be retained. It is a fact, but as far as "evidence" it is circumstancial at best.

2a) Likewise, that it is largley a reprint set could have been about retaining cards that would be healthy for the format, but it could also be about making certain cards more available or even as simple as needing a filler set (the latter of which we know is true - there were a number of cards that needed to be released before moving onto Black & White). So again, this is circumstancial evidence; with the right additional information it becomes proof, but it is not proof by itself.

The specific cards you cite and points you make are not self-evident points. We have a format that currently favors Basic Pokemon quite heavily. A format without Dual Ball or Pokemon Collector is not a new thing; at different points in the games history you either relied on raw draw power and luck to get the Basic Pokemon you needed, or had a "set-up" Pokemon to help start the game. The latter often aids Evolution decks because if a "set up" deck needs it, so does an aggro deck.

Without those two, I believe any Pokemon that lacks a three Energy Retreat Cost or has more than 90 HP cannot be searched out by anything but the effect of a Pokemon (be it attack or Ability), Ultra Ball or Poke Ball. My time is short so please forgive me if I merely missed a different option. :rolleyes: So it is possible to get the exact Pokemon you need first turn, but it is no where near as easy as it was... and that is good. Even if we still had the Shaymin and Pachirisu, ZPS (and later varients like ZPST) just wouldn't be reliable enough to run anymore.

Now, while a deck that basically must pull off a three Basic Pokemon (and three Energy) combo would suffer, if you need to get a lot of Basic Pokemon into play quickly, you've got appropriate opening attacks and just need the right combination of draw power and "Ball" cards. Cleffa most definitely did not make for a healthy format; it made for a flippy format when we don't have "raw power" cards to get around Sweet Sleeping Face, and ultimately contributed to lucky wins... one way or the other.

It doesn't matter if it technically breaks even in helping or hurting a player (though with its history of being run, it is pretty clear people only favor it when it is more of an advantage than a risk) the TCG doesn't need that much more "luck". I don't want to win because my opponent woke up and I am donking their sily "baby" Pokemon, and I don't like losing because I can't draw into Catcher (or before that, get "heads" on a Reversal) while Sweet Sleeping Face stalls and stalls.

There's "luck of the draw" and there's competent deck design. I heard the same argument for why it was sooooo important to have a card like Pidgeot (FireRed/LeafGreen) legal, and I hated what that did to the game. Suddenly you didn't have to "work" for your TecH or your splashes, so a single card counter ruined a lot of the card pool (since Pidgeot could grab that counter). Yes it made a lot of decks "viable", but in the "well I'll just Quick Search a counter/come-from-behind card".

This is a trading card game; luck of the draw is supposed to be a part of it, and when the card pool is well designed you simply have to build a deck to minimize that luck. MD-On had a ludicrous amount of draw power, while HGSS-On still has primo Supporter based draw power coupled with focusing on big Basic Pokemon and ample search power for them (even search power that isn't Supporter based). It may sound scary for those who know nothing different, but its okay.

3) Others have pointed out that the Professor Cup didn't prove anything, and you weren't even sure it did yourself, so I'll move on.

4) They "like" to rotate about four sets per season. "Like" isn't the same thing as "must", and it tends to be more like a mean (mathmatical average) or mode (most common amount) than a hard and fast rule. Rotating five sets is not out of the ordinary, as is rotating only three.

You don't seem to understand that banning select cards is a formula for failure. Literally it means "oops, we thought we had it figured out but we didn't" and it doesn't work so well in most games. Yu-Gi-Oh is a great example of selective banning failing, and while it can be functional, it is never good. Pokemon has only selectively banned two cards from Modified, and I hope they never have to again. If you really think "selective banning" is good, just favor more reprint sets; it's the smart way of achieving an almost identical result.

Given the focus on keeping the game accessible to all ages, selective Bannings are a nightmare; rotation is so simple they can print it in instruction booklets... and it remains correct while the format is intact. With bans you never know when a card might become illegal.

If you're specifically referring to last format... Sabledonk was just the straw that broke the camel's back. The whole format was a mess; some people loved the mess, but other's hated it. Apparently TPC wasn't fond of it either.
I wouldn't mind Call of Legend being the cut-off point, but since it requires Japan to issue the set to maintain, and it contains old terminology, it makes more sense to pitch it. I mean, even if we kept it it is better to reprint everything with updated text! Most of the set is hopeless filler anyway, so we might be able to fit everything really desirable into the next wave of promos anyway. I doubt we'd agree exactly on what is desirable, of course.
 
I'm thinking it will either be COL-on or BW-on. My argument for COL - why would they go ahead and reprint so many cards if not to have them be usable in the next format? I mean, I know it was meant to be a filler set, but I want to have some hope that they planned this a year and a half in advance. Plus, it'd be nice to see PONT and Smeargle stay in the format. I like Junk Arm too but we can't have everything XD
 
Swordfish1989 said:
I'm thinking it will either be COL-on or BW-on. My argument for COL - why would they go ahead and reprint so many cards if not to have them be usable in the next format? I mean, I know it was meant to be a filler set, but I want to have some hope that they planned this a year and a half in advance. Plus, it'd be nice to see PONT and Smeargle stay in the format. I like Junk Arm too but we can't have everything XD
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Why do you think they would plan to have a rotation to CoLOn a year and and half in advance if they couldn't plan for the fallout the BW rule changes would have? Remember how we had that early rotation and everything went wonky?
I'm tired of junk arm cluttering up decks, but I'm also gonna miss ALL the cards from UL and UD. If only they could rotate HGSS and TR.
 
Otaku said:
Yes, but just saying it that way isn't as humorous.:rolleyes:
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Thats what I get for posting at 5am. I rescind my previous statement. Rotate to CoLON but rotate Team Rocket back into the format plz.
 
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