Magic_Umbreon
Researching Tower Scientist, Retired
The price discount is obviously just because those sets don't have the "new pokemon" the kids want to find in their packs, less demand.
Rotation
- Thread starter Pikajew1213
- Start date
keniselvis
New Member
I dunno. They have been selling Platinum and Diamond and Pearl in blister packs for the last year here in Ohio and in Kansas. toysrus is stuffed to the gills with them. And still selling for $5 a pack.
but it could be. I'm new to the game and have only experience one rotation.
but it could be. I'm new to the game and have only experience one rotation.
Otaku
Active Member
Some things to note:
Discounted boosters do not affect rotation. Remember, the boosters are made and sold by Nintendo/TPC/whomever and bought by various distributors. HeartGold/SoulSilver is now what, eight sets ago? Distributors want to dump their stock to make way for the newer stuff. I am sure the more savvy distributors know about Modified and set rotations, but remember players aren't the primary purchasers of Pokemon TCG cards. It is random little kids and the like, people who don't even really collect that either buy the boosters or receive the boosters as gifts.
A $4 pack of boosters takes up less space on shelves than a $4 action figure and is just as appealing to the kids and perhaps more appealing to the parents. Action figure prices are being hit hard by inflation and the high price of oil (plastics are an oil-based product, like gasoline), and it is getting hard for name-brand, big franchise toys (like Transformers) to hit that lowest price point anymore.
Newer packs just sell better because people like newer things, in general. If we had a Pokemon generation that was truly loathed (that is, actively hated) then it would be different, but even the less popular generations still have fans, or are a kids "first". So when those packs are new, they sell better than when they are old, and until they hit "collectible" level they'll be priced to move and make room for newer, better selling boosters. If you're lucky, you'll even find older boosters that are valuable at clearance stores, just because they still aren't being viewed as "collectables".
There is almost no chance we will get an early rotation this year or a banning. The reason is what good would it do? The "problem" cards are all spread out: yeah decks would have to adjust a lot for the loss of cards from the HGSS block, but Pokemon Catcher isn't from that block, is it? Reshiram? Zekrom? Eelektrik? Pokemon EX? Banning is unlikely because Pokemon just rarely bans. I think the only cards actually banned have been Ancient Mew, ________'s Pikachu, Neo Genesis Sneasel, and Neo Genesis Slowking. Ancient Mew was banned because it technically had no English printing (required at the time for foreign language cards): it was written in "Poke-glyphics". ________'a Pikachu (a.k.a. Happy Birthday Pikachu) did more damage if it was your birthday, and originally this was considered too hard to verify and also more than a little unfair. Both of these were also Promo cards not really meant to be played anyway.
So only two cards that were serious, in set cards to be banned were Neo Genesis Sneasel and Slowking. Personally I am starting to question the Sneasel banning (it almost always relied on some other overpowered card to work, such as Slowking). Still, it was those two cards... and nothing else, even though there were many other cards powerful enough in those sets to render most sets as filler.
Discounted boosters do not affect rotation. Remember, the boosters are made and sold by Nintendo/TPC/whomever and bought by various distributors. HeartGold/SoulSilver is now what, eight sets ago? Distributors want to dump their stock to make way for the newer stuff. I am sure the more savvy distributors know about Modified and set rotations, but remember players aren't the primary purchasers of Pokemon TCG cards. It is random little kids and the like, people who don't even really collect that either buy the boosters or receive the boosters as gifts.
A $4 pack of boosters takes up less space on shelves than a $4 action figure and is just as appealing to the kids and perhaps more appealing to the parents. Action figure prices are being hit hard by inflation and the high price of oil (plastics are an oil-based product, like gasoline), and it is getting hard for name-brand, big franchise toys (like Transformers) to hit that lowest price point anymore.
Newer packs just sell better because people like newer things, in general. If we had a Pokemon generation that was truly loathed (that is, actively hated) then it would be different, but even the less popular generations still have fans, or are a kids "first". So when those packs are new, they sell better than when they are old, and until they hit "collectible" level they'll be priced to move and make room for newer, better selling boosters. If you're lucky, you'll even find older boosters that are valuable at clearance stores, just because they still aren't being viewed as "collectables".
There is almost no chance we will get an early rotation this year or a banning. The reason is what good would it do? The "problem" cards are all spread out: yeah decks would have to adjust a lot for the loss of cards from the HGSS block, but Pokemon Catcher isn't from that block, is it? Reshiram? Zekrom? Eelektrik? Pokemon EX? Banning is unlikely because Pokemon just rarely bans. I think the only cards actually banned have been Ancient Mew, ________'s Pikachu, Neo Genesis Sneasel, and Neo Genesis Slowking. Ancient Mew was banned because it technically had no English printing (required at the time for foreign language cards): it was written in "Poke-glyphics". ________'a Pikachu (a.k.a. Happy Birthday Pikachu) did more damage if it was your birthday, and originally this was considered too hard to verify and also more than a little unfair. Both of these were also Promo cards not really meant to be played anyway.
So only two cards that were serious, in set cards to be banned were Neo Genesis Sneasel and Slowking. Personally I am starting to question the Sneasel banning (it almost always relied on some other overpowered card to work, such as Slowking). Still, it was those two cards... and nothing else, even though there were many other cards powerful enough in those sets to render most sets as filler.
Last edited:
Magic_Umbreon
Researching Tower Scientist, Retired
And Slowking was a mistranslation, the result of the ridiculous "play as printed" rule.
Otaku
Active Member
I believe Slowking was an intentional mistranslation by WotC in the hope that it would "balance" the Trainer heavy format. I cannot believe such a serious mistranslation would not quickly result in an actual errata, even under WotC. I don't think it was ever admitted, but quite frankly it is being kinder to them to assume this was a failed attempt at balancing the game than that much sheer stupidity.
poketrainer554
New Member
dont rotations happen in september?
Actually the reason for the Sneasel ban was that no matter what deck you built in that format, there was literally 0 reason not to include 3-4 Sneasel and 4 Special Dark Energy, and in the majority of decks, it then proceeded to outclass the actual focus of the deck. It was inarguably worse than Mewtwo EX, due in large part to it being - at the time - countered by only one thing, LUCK with the coin flips.
Otaku
Active Member
Now that you mention it, that does sound like a familiar complaint. Thing is, you just added six to eight cards to a deck, half of which are not able to be searched.[DEL] Is it really that big of a deal when you consider that most decks were already running 3 or 4 Cleffa, and by the next set would also be running two or three Tyrogue?[/DEL]
Sneasel is not Mewtwo EX. Mewtwo EX is almost three times the size of Sneasel and can use any Energy. I remember making the argument back then that Sneasel just needed the conspicuously lacking Fighting Weakness to have balanced it out; Sneasel being OHKOed by Tyrogue (with that hypothetical change), even if it was only half the time (a fourth after Focus Band) still hurts.
[DEL]Was there an effective way to recycle those Darkness Energy? I don't remember there being one.[/DEL] Ah, now I remember: Rainbow Energy was from Team Rocket. So during all but a short transitional period, we had it. Thus any deck could run Four Rainbow Energy (which didn't hurt the main theme) and four Darkness Energy, and then four Sneasel.
Okay, my memory failed me. I forgot that Rainbow Energy was legal most of the time Neo Genesis was, and that makes a huge difference.
Sneasel is not Mewtwo EX. Mewtwo EX is almost three times the size of Sneasel and can use any Energy. I remember making the argument back then that Sneasel just needed the conspicuously lacking Fighting Weakness to have balanced it out; Sneasel being OHKOed by Tyrogue (with that hypothetical change), even if it was only half the time (a fourth after Focus Band) still hurts.
[DEL]Was there an effective way to recycle those Darkness Energy? I don't remember there being one.[/DEL] Ah, now I remember: Rainbow Energy was from Team Rocket. So during all but a short transitional period, we had it. Thus any deck could run Four Rainbow Energy (which didn't hurt the main theme) and four Darkness Energy, and then four Sneasel.
Okay, my memory failed me. I forgot that Rainbow Energy was legal most of the time Neo Genesis was, and that makes a huge difference.
Last edited:
Otaku
Active Member
I made my last post a "train of thought". I'm doing a minor edit to make it clear; I remember now why Sneasel was in the box. XD
Yes, Sneasel's average damage was most impressive for the time, and lingering threat an opponent would get above average results was always there.
I do stand by my comparison, to an extent: Sneasel was "broken" more due to the nature of the format than its own abilities: no Focus Band and a dependence on Special Energy. If a Gatr could reliable OHKO it, it wouldn't have seemed so potent.
While 60 HP was a solid size for a Basic back then, it wasn't anything like Mewtwo EX. I don't think Mewtwo EX itself is that big of a problem in this format, but rather the Energy acceleration that feeds it. So I guess what I am saying is I shot my mouth off, considering Sneasel would have been a bigger problem than Mewtwo EX, but they are so dissimilar I don't like comparing them all that much.
Yes, Sneasel's average damage was most impressive for the time, and lingering threat an opponent would get above average results was always there.
I do stand by my comparison, to an extent: Sneasel was "broken" more due to the nature of the format than its own abilities: no Focus Band and a dependence on Special Energy. If a Gatr could reliable OHKO it, it wouldn't have seemed so potent.
While 60 HP was a solid size for a Basic back then, it wasn't anything like Mewtwo EX. I don't think Mewtwo EX itself is that big of a problem in this format, but rather the Energy acceleration that feeds it. So I guess what I am saying is I shot my mouth off, considering Sneasel would have been a bigger problem than Mewtwo EX, but they are so dissimilar I don't like comparing them all that much.
Last edited:
Magic_Umbreon
Researching Tower Scientist, Retired
They're similar enough in regards to "every deck should splash it" hence creating stale mirror games - that's the problem with the two cards and why the two are considered broken.
I'd argue the same for Scramble energy. It was pseudo-banned by introducing strong exs that couldn't use its effect, the card itself is broken.
I'd argue the same for Scramble energy. It was pseudo-banned by introducing strong exs that couldn't use its effect, the card itself is broken.
RogueListers
New Member
I think all Pokémon needs to fix the problems we currently see with these BBP is to just instate the legendary rule from Magic:
If a Legendary Pokémon enters the field while there is a Legendary Pokémon of the same name already on the field, then both of them are knocked out. This keeps EX's in the area they should have always been: 1-ofs that give your deck the boost it needs at the time it needs to really pull out a win. I mean, every main metagame attacker save Magnezone and Vanilluxe is a legendary Pokémon which, considering their rarity in the video games, doesn't really make much sense. Obviously just banning EX's altogether would be horrible for the sales of Pokémon, and basically causing them to be 1-ofs decreases demand, which can then be used as an excuse to decrease supply, making them more sought after by the non-player.
tl;dr 180 HP is fine for a basic, so long as it can be limited in some way, shape or form.
Just imagine how decklists would look if you could only have 1 EX out at a time...
If a Legendary Pokémon enters the field while there is a Legendary Pokémon of the same name already on the field, then both of them are knocked out. This keeps EX's in the area they should have always been: 1-ofs that give your deck the boost it needs at the time it needs to really pull out a win. I mean, every main metagame attacker save Magnezone and Vanilluxe is a legendary Pokémon which, considering their rarity in the video games, doesn't really make much sense. Obviously just banning EX's altogether would be horrible for the sales of Pokémon, and basically causing them to be 1-ofs decreases demand, which can then be used as an excuse to decrease supply, making them more sought after by the non-player.
tl;dr 180 HP is fine for a basic, so long as it can be limited in some way, shape or form.
Just imagine how decklists would look if you could only have 1 EX out at a time...
Otaku
Active Member
Those are Shining Pokemon, and they didn't work to well. It might be an interesting concept, but the thing is most of the "Legendary" Pokemon aren't legal for video game OP, but in the games themselves the only restriction is the difficulty in obtaining them, especially in multiples.
Yet it can be done. One might argue that the rarity scheme is what reflects the difficulty of getting them for the TCG.
Copying Magic's scheme exactly certainly doesn't work; I think you've made sure that the most potent Pokemon EX are either unplayable or staples. I mean, Mewtwo EX wars just no longer take up your attack. You drop yours and both are KOed, both players take two Prizes, and now you can drop some Energy elsewhere and attack again!
Magic has Life Points (I might have the exact term wrong) to determine who wins; I am not overly familiar with the game, but that effect shouldn't cost you any. Instead, you're burning mana and a card from hand to auto destroy your opponent's monster that they burned mana to summon. It doesn't translate directly to Pokemon.
With some revisions, it might work, but revisions it will need.
Oh, and how many Pokemon EX are dropped in multiples?
Yet it can be done. One might argue that the rarity scheme is what reflects the difficulty of getting them for the TCG.
Copying Magic's scheme exactly certainly doesn't work; I think you've made sure that the most potent Pokemon EX are either unplayable or staples. I mean, Mewtwo EX wars just no longer take up your attack. You drop yours and both are KOed, both players take two Prizes, and now you can drop some Energy elsewhere and attack again!
Magic has Life Points (I might have the exact term wrong) to determine who wins; I am not overly familiar with the game, but that effect shouldn't cost you any. Instead, you're burning mana and a card from hand to auto destroy your opponent's monster that they burned mana to summon. It doesn't translate directly to Pokemon.
With some revisions, it might work, but revisions it will need.
Oh, and how many Pokemon EX are dropped in multiples?
Zeels would have no problem with this. Most lists don't play zekrom ex anymore and not having to worry about mewtwo ex as much just helps every other matchup