ragingphantom
New Member
AMU rocks. since LBS and Charizard ex are out, this is the new 200 damage heavy hitter
Scorpio! (back from the dead)
- Thread starter Umbreon777
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ninjachris96
New Member
you need 3+ lvXs, and 90hp on each? Eh...
ninjachris96
New Member
yup and btw nice avatar. =) lololololololol the king.
ragingphantom
New Member
AMU sets up quickly and in one turn. t2 god blast ruins your day.
and snow point brings up the HP to 110
and snow point brings up the HP to 110
ninjachris96
New Member
that is true. but i doubt the consistency, how ever that is another topic for someone elses thread....
mime wont work
mime wont work
ragingphantom
New Member
mime blocks AMU ftw
Ghetto Overlord
New Member
the hole point behind mr mime is to stall you out while i attack and run with gliscar lvx so you cant attack or warp out of it with 2 mimes in play its ftw
butlerforhire
New Member
Mime is not just anti-Kingdra, first of all. I've already talked about why this card is good against anything relying on a 1-2 energy (or 0 such as Bronzong/Yanmega/Rhyperior lv. X etc.) attack in previous posts and I don't feel like repeating it. Just realize it is not included here solely as anti-Kingdra.
Furthermore, as anti-Kingra, it is pretty exceptional, and I think this has also already been explained pretty well by Papi/Manny, rroaryh, and others. I'd just like to reiterate that if nothing else it SLOWS KINGDRA DOWN while also giving them less energy in hand to ditch to get the most out of Dragon Pump, which is a blow considering speed is one of Kingdra's strongest points. One Mime will force them to power up at least 1 Kingdra with 3 energy. Who says that Kingdra doesn't get KOed before the Mime does though? If Gliscor lv. X got a Night Slash or Pester in previously, it's wide open and vulnerable. If the Lv. X hasn't even come into play yet, it can lock down the Kingdra with Paralyzation and hit it with Night Slash only to come back the following turn for the KO. If a Kingdra goes down while Mime is still in play (or if 2 are/another is brought out), the next Kingdra is going to have to go through the same 3-turn procedure while Gliscor lv. X is waiting to continue its hit-and-run games, setting that Kingdra up for a KO as well as it struggles to get 3 energy on it. With the Mime and Gliscor lv. X combo, you essentially rob Kingdra of its speed and pass it on to the Scorpio player, forcing them to wait to even attack while you still get 2HKOs in.
The whole point of this deck though is really to abuse the hit-and-run nature of Gliscor lv. X comboed with Venomoth's status-inflicting Body (which is actually why I favor 3-3 Moth and only 2 Mime, although like Umbreon777 himself I have yet to actually test this thing). By switching out to Venomoth after a Night Slash, odds are the defending Pokemon is going to get poisoned unless they're a sniper (and these have been acknowledged as a threat since the first page of this thread) or unless the opponent uses Warp Point, which they are probably going to regret doing later on when they've been Paralyzed by a recycled Gliscor lv. X and have already used up their 1-3 supply of switch cards. 60 + 10 from poison + 60 from Night Slash + 10 more from poison= 140, which is enough to KO 99.9% of the Pokemon in the DP-on format, obviously including Kingdra. If the Pokemon attacking Venomoth is fresh and damage-free, Pester can be used to OHKO it next turn if it has 100 HP or less, and this is actually pretty useful considering all of the playable/hyped Pokemon out there that fit this bill (Bronzong, Yanmega, the Pixies, Froslass, Groudon, Kyogre, Lanturn, Tentacruel, Banette, Lucario, Bellosom, Glaceon lv. X w/out Espeon back-up, etc.). Luxray and Blissey also both go down in one hit from a Pester set up in this manner due to weakness. With PlusPower/Buck's, you stray over into the 110 HP territory, which hits stuff like Magmortar, Infernape, Leafeon lv. X w/ out Espeon back-up, etc.. Pretty handy if you ask me.
The best thing? Gliscor isn't taking damage all the while that he is inflicting it.
Furthermore, as anti-Kingra, it is pretty exceptional, and I think this has also already been explained pretty well by Papi/Manny, rroaryh, and others. I'd just like to reiterate that if nothing else it SLOWS KINGDRA DOWN while also giving them less energy in hand to ditch to get the most out of Dragon Pump, which is a blow considering speed is one of Kingdra's strongest points. One Mime will force them to power up at least 1 Kingdra with 3 energy. Who says that Kingdra doesn't get KOed before the Mime does though? If Gliscor lv. X got a Night Slash or Pester in previously, it's wide open and vulnerable. If the Lv. X hasn't even come into play yet, it can lock down the Kingdra with Paralyzation and hit it with Night Slash only to come back the following turn for the KO. If a Kingdra goes down while Mime is still in play (or if 2 are/another is brought out), the next Kingdra is going to have to go through the same 3-turn procedure while Gliscor lv. X is waiting to continue its hit-and-run games, setting that Kingdra up for a KO as well as it struggles to get 3 energy on it. With the Mime and Gliscor lv. X combo, you essentially rob Kingdra of its speed and pass it on to the Scorpio player, forcing them to wait to even attack while you still get 2HKOs in.
The whole point of this deck though is really to abuse the hit-and-run nature of Gliscor lv. X comboed with Venomoth's status-inflicting Body (which is actually why I favor 3-3 Moth and only 2 Mime, although like Umbreon777 himself I have yet to actually test this thing). By switching out to Venomoth after a Night Slash, odds are the defending Pokemon is going to get poisoned unless they're a sniper (and these have been acknowledged as a threat since the first page of this thread) or unless the opponent uses Warp Point, which they are probably going to regret doing later on when they've been Paralyzed by a recycled Gliscor lv. X and have already used up their 1-3 supply of switch cards. 60 + 10 from poison + 60 from Night Slash + 10 more from poison= 140, which is enough to KO 99.9% of the Pokemon in the DP-on format, obviously including Kingdra. If the Pokemon attacking Venomoth is fresh and damage-free, Pester can be used to OHKO it next turn if it has 100 HP or less, and this is actually pretty useful considering all of the playable/hyped Pokemon out there that fit this bill (Bronzong, Yanmega, the Pixies, Froslass, Groudon, Kyogre, Lanturn, Tentacruel, Banette, Lucario, Bellosom, Glaceon lv. X w/out Espeon back-up, etc.). Luxray and Blissey also both go down in one hit from a Pester set up in this manner due to weakness. With PlusPower/Buck's, you stray over into the 110 HP territory, which hits stuff like Magmortar, Infernape, Leafeon lv. X w/ out Espeon back-up, etc.. Pretty handy if you ask me.
The best thing? Gliscor isn't taking damage all the while that he is inflicting it.
Naki Feralkin
New Member
Guys, stop the back and forth arguing. While this list does not run a Claydol line, I threw a 1-1 into my variant to keep it up to par, I've tested a few times against Kingdra, and it actually holds its own quite well, some things I have noticed recently in testing though, is this deck DEFINITELY needs Azelf Level X. It already runs multi energies in case psychic guys need to attack or what not, but dump one Multi, and it REALLY messes up Leafeon Level X/Magmortar variants. It doesn't hurt since you're using Azelf for Time Walk purposes anyways, right?
Mime is not solely used for Stall, you can start attacking almost immediatly with Gligar/Gliscor, heck, even an early gligar poison combined into Pester Turn 2 can REALLY wreck some crap. Mime is not used solely for stall, as thats only off a bad start with a less than exemplary hand, however it is used as the switch in from a Night Slash or a SSU'd Burning Poison, as is Venomoth (ALSO AN AMAZING SWITCH IN), but it should NOT be called a set-up staller, (Though Call energy certainly makes it a VERY good staller...)
My variant also runs a solitary chatot to assist with further bad starts. Trust me, watch the deck in action and you'll understand just what is so good about this deck. I fricking one shot a Blissey, NOTHING feels better than that, for only 2 energies. Same said blissey deck also ran Holon FF's, and I still had no problems mowing right through its weakness-less deck. 4 games, all victorious, as well as a win against my own Magnevire.
This deck is very good. Test it, make it yourself, you'll see why.
Mime is not solely used for Stall, you can start attacking almost immediatly with Gligar/Gliscor, heck, even an early gligar poison combined into Pester Turn 2 can REALLY wreck some crap. Mime is not used solely for stall, as thats only off a bad start with a less than exemplary hand, however it is used as the switch in from a Night Slash or a SSU'd Burning Poison, as is Venomoth (ALSO AN AMAZING SWITCH IN), but it should NOT be called a set-up staller, (Though Call energy certainly makes it a VERY good staller...)
My variant also runs a solitary chatot to assist with further bad starts. Trust me, watch the deck in action and you'll understand just what is so good about this deck. I fricking one shot a Blissey, NOTHING feels better than that, for only 2 energies. Same said blissey deck also ran Holon FF's, and I still had no problems mowing right through its weakness-less deck. 4 games, all victorious, as well as a win against my own Magnevire.
This deck is very good. Test it, make it yourself, you'll see why.
butlerforhire
New Member
This list DOES run Claydol and always has. The person who suggested otherwise was mistaken.
mewoxys666
New Member
Hm... I love how everyone assumes that Mimey is supposed to like be the absolute avatar of Kingdra's "defeat". He's an awesome source of time building and strategizing. Switching to him or Moth is like saying "Choose one: 1) You become affected by a double stack status effect, or attach more energy than neccesary to KO me and watch those 6 cards you used to KO my Mimey go bye-bye when Gliscor gets to throw his punches." Neither option is very pretty for the Kingdra side of this argument. Stop assuming Mimey is the end game crusade against Kingdra. Jeez...
BloodDraek
New Member
dude you can't call this deck tier 1, it hasn't even won any BRs. I don't care that yoou supposedly tested this deck against other decent dp-on decks. Technically Kingdra can't even be considered Tier 1 because it hasn't seen any BR play yet.
I mean don't get me wrong I think gliscor is amazing but there are SOOOOOOOOO many dex next format it is really anyone's game. We will not know what are the top decks until BRs
I mean don't get me wrong I think gliscor is amazing but there are SOOOOOOOOO many dex next format it is really anyone's game. We will not know what are the top decks until BRs
skarmory777
New Member
I'd like to try venasaur with gliscor. The 2-1-2 line of venasaur gives you a good chance of poisoning or some type of status then doing pester. I might try that in place of Venomoth or the Azelf.
Papi/Manny
New Member
1) Kingdra has no chance against the constant 60 then hide behind mime. Its only hope is a donk.
2) Leafeon is the only matchup you've listed thats a bad matchup. What does mag do? It takes 3 turns to power up to get around mime. It has the 100 snipe. Too bad gliscor X has 110. Mag gets 2 shotted relatively easily while mag needs to constnatly be able to level up to get rid of paralize. Empoleon has nothing on this. Again, 3 energy to ko mime. Except they are a bulky stage 2 and easily get outswarmed. If your talking about split bombing stuff, then I simply bounce/ssu. Snipe does nothing against gliscor.
Naki Feralkin
New Member
Stage 2 lines really only complicate things. You then have to make the room and waste slots for Rare Candies that'd be better saved for other things.
Leafeon can be dealt with through Azelf LX.
Umbreon777
New Member
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Everybody is throwing out stuff like the list runs no Claydol, supporters, or Azelf Lv.X.
...Huh?
When the title of the thread says "edited, go look", does anybody actually go look?
P.S. I never said it was Tier 1. That's why there's a question mark.
Everybody is throwing out stuff like the list runs no Claydol, supporters, or Azelf Lv.X.
...Huh?
When the title of the thread says "edited, go look", does anybody actually go look?
P.S. I never said it was Tier 1. That's why there's a question mark.
Blaziken 1111
Active Member
1 Full flame was rotated out last year and it's not coming back. Otherwise it's a great idea.
2. Heatran won't come out until November and it will probaly ruin consistency.
3. Why would he put vileplume in here. Its a stage 2 and it will just ruin consistency and will be slow although. Also he will need to play psychic energy too.
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