Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Sealed Till October... What's Modified v3?

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It's not just that the only drawing w/out Elm is supporters, but the best searching are now also supporters. That would basically mean you can either search or draw each turn. Not both. That makes things slow. Atleast LC on would keep Trader. But I think the most logical is Expedition on w/ Best promos. Elm will make it a quicker format. RS on is CRAZY. There is nothing in the line of trainers. It will be like a sealed event. :eek:
Atleast until a few more sets bring in the decent trainers. We need Exp, Aqua, & Sky.
 
bulbasnore said:
Hi again!
Hi! to you too ;) nice to have finally met some of the people from the gym

'neo-genesis'
You've probably been playing more than me. I'm still finding neo-genesis-on a blast. So many things are viable. Rocket on was a straighjacket...everythings was vGatr, with a few EnteiMags that managed to outspeed it about 20% of the time.

Gatr is still with us and Entei-Cargo is still fast and viable. Both have been around for a long long time. The new kid on the block: Scizor, has just reestablished these old stalwarts. Unless you can hit very hard you just can't do anything to Scizor. So I'd say that the straightjacket is still in-place. That doesn't mean that you can't have fun or innovate, but in any big tournament you can guarantee seeing a lot of decks that are heavily based on the neo-block.

'regardless'
You're ready for any change. To me the format matters. Why is this format so RICH? Is it the huge card pool? That's too simple, or is it?

Well by the time OP hits these shores I'm sure that there will be lots of cards in the R&S Ex-on format. Similarly I don't expect a major tournament until after summer next year:R&S ex-on would be my best guess as to its likely format.

For all there is a huge card pool decks look very similar...Cleffa, Elm, Trader, Gold Berry, Focus Band, Double Gust....Big FAST fire, Big WATER, and the new kid Scizor (with Furret and MUK)

So ready for any change...probably yes. If a mistake is made in the format then it can be fixed a couple of months later.

I'm concerned about the next format RS-on is too small.

me too, but I'm more concerned about the lack of movement in the game. As long as Nintendo release sets quickly even R&S-on would stay fresh.

Ex-on is the minimum consumer friendly format.
Expedition-on would be my prefered choice too. Primarily because its a block format that we haven't had the chance to try. But if AQ-Scizor takes over in the format then maybe Scizor should join Sneasel in the Box. After all we don't want Sneasel to get too lonely do we ;) What do I expect in an Exped-on format? Mewtwo-Ex, AQ-Scizor, and not-quite-so-big-slightly-slower-fire.

LC-on might be the best.

Card pool size is one reason. It also makes some special combos. Examples: Oracle/bill is great for rogue decks. Trader/Breeder is needed to make so many different decks work. Without these trainers, we are reduced to the fastest and most powerful deck dominating. That might be a single deck. If so, that's no fun.

There will come a day when the RS-on card pool will be enough to make a format. It isn't right now and won't be even with an expansion or two this year.

A single deck taking over would be bad... but so is having an old stalwart around for a very long time. No matter what format is picked we are going to have to deal with some of the massively powerfull cards that are in the Ex sets. I want change, I want variety, I am willing to try new format ideas. But first and foremost I'd like to have OP in place.
 
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Hey everyones, Guess whos BACK!!!!

Yo yo yo yo yo! Everyones FAVORITE banned Professor Champion is back in action! *awaits chorus of cheers but ducks in time to dodge incoming vegetables*

Anyways, Im prolly not gonna be posting here regularly, but whenever important threads come up I am going to post my EVER so important opinion. The question of the new format just HAPPENS to fall under this category. First off, lets look at a few of the possible options.

Ruby and Sapphire On- Believe it or not, many players who I talk to believe this is a near 100% choice on the new format. Unfortunately, I do see it as a likely choice, BUT, I do not think it would be a very wise idea to use this. As said by some people, the trainer engine is HORRIBLE. A counter arguement was also made, saying that it makes you rely on POKEMON over TRAINERS, but this is absolutely not true. You stop relying on trainers. You stop relying on Pokemon. You stop relying on Energy. You start relying on DRAWS. Without steady draw power, the games will be decided almost entirely on who manages to top-deck the better cards during the game. The Holographic Delcatty also becomes BROKEN, as it lets you get 3 cards a turn. If you do NOT run this card, you are simply foolish. If one player draws into a Delcatty early on and the other does not, that player almost always wins. Thats 3 extra draws to get what you need than your opponent. Games often come down to who gets their Delcatty or Birches first. This is not a stable environment, and it gets incredibly frusterating to boot. Now, here is what comes with such lack luster draw power. Haymakers. Lots and Lots of Haymakers. Many players on the website I usually go to have done a LOT of testing of this " Format " as they believe they are getting the jump on everyone. The best decks are haymakers, often using simply a pokemon line consisting of Magmar EX Mewtwo EX and Delcatty. Evolutions almost always die, and VERY few of them work, and it is a strain to make them win. If you think Haymakers were bad in Unlimited during the beginning, with the low draw power to consistantly get any Evolutions out, the game is run by Basics. This is not a speculation, this has been proved by many games played by arguably some of the best deck builders in the game today. ( Rand0m, Big Chuck ( Alex Brosseau ) Myself, and others whose names may be slightly less recognisable ) This format is horrible, and with the powerful EX Pokemon in the game, Evolutions come to a screeching halt. Unfortunately, judging by spoilers, no solid draw power is coming soon either. Choosing this format leads not only to a vastly stale, but an overwhelmingly unbalanced game. By the time cards come out to correct what is going on, if they do, the damage done to the player base may be unrepairable.

Next up we have the format that many people here feel will be the format, myself included, and the one I think would be healthiest for the game.

Expedition On- Sorry guys, Im not gonna use the cheesy EON term just yet :p Neon was bad enough. BUT, this format is not only effective in game play standards, but in terms of business as well. Business-wise, the sets are still new. TPC still runs things behind the scenes, and I also imagine they get a cut of profit WotC makes. SO, with the sets being mass produced in the past year to get them out, Id imagine TPC would like to milk to profits from them slightly more than they already have. Secondly, the Exp-Sky sets have the eReader compatability. This means that they are used in a Nintendo based product, unlike the previous sets, and help advertise for them. This gives it a reason to be included by Nintendo as well. SO, by allowing these 3 sets, it not only seems like it would help Nintendo AND TPC, but even us as players and WotC as well.

Now onto the game aspects of this format. With consistant draw power in the form of Bills Maintence, ORACLE, COPYCAT, JUGGLER, Oaks Research, Elms Training Method, and others, Evolutions have no problem thriving in the environment. Strong EX pokemon would also be able to compete I would imagine. With Feralligatr rotated out, as well as both Entei AND Magcargo, different decks would filter into the format and who knows what would be used. Scizor Furret Muk ( the Fan Appeciation Tournement winner! GO JASON! ) would still be viable without Muk if LC is dropped, but Blaziken looks likely to see play, and this is a strong rival, and Scizor loses the quick and easy Mantine support to deal with fire. Everything is a toss up again. Legendary Collection should NOT be included. Yes, Bill and Pokemon Trader are great cards. Muk is a metagame disaster at times. Unfortunately, the cards just do not apply to Nintendo at all, nor do they really help the format beyond clutter it and make it as much like Neo-On as possible. Mix it up a bit. As for the promos, that is a very debatable issue, and I would like to see at LEAST the BEST Promos, simply because Elm is such an incredible card and does nothing but boost game consistancy through the roof. Nothing is harmed by the inclusion of this card. Its an uncommon and easy for anyone to get access too. Its been reprinted. I have about 40 of them. I mean, seriously! Whats wrong with including everyones FAVORITE new hand of 7 generator?! This format keeps the cardpool new and diverse, while leaving it open for a few more RS sets before a format change is needed, thus not making yet another change too swiftly.

Now, we have another interesting, less probable format possibility. Unlimited. If I remember correctly, it was Wizards of The Coasts idea to push for new formats. Prop 15/3c anyone? Modified? That was not TPCs doing, and if I remember correctly, it took alot of pushing to get it done. I would not be overly surprised if TPC says screw formats, and leaves it open to everything. I do not think this is the best answer as the best Unlimited cards are very scarce now, plus many new cards have no impact on the game-state. Unlimited is still a GREAT format to play, and as a matter of fact was MUCH better than the 3 ring circus MF had come to at the end of the NEO-On days ( Gatr Sect, Scizor Furret Muk and Entei Cargo being the three strongest decks with a few rogue decks being viable, but still no where near as consistant ) But yes, I do not put it past unlimited as being the new format.

Now, the last option I see, and equally probable, is whatever they are using in Japan currently. I am not familar with the structure at all, but I see it as a real possibility as being what is used.

I would be very surprised if what Nintendo uses is anything but these four formats. (*laughs when its revealed to be a format consisting of Rocket, Base 2, Gym Challenge and Neo 4 for no reason what so ever besides someone got drunk and started pulling random sets out of a hat* )
 
Quote by Tyranitar666
"A counter arguement was also made, saying that it makes you rely on POKEMON over TRAINERS, but this is absolutely not true. You stop relying on trainers. You stop relying on Pokemon. You stop relying on Energy. You start relying on DRAWS. Without steady draw power, the games will be decided almost entirely on who manages to top-deck the better cards during the game."
(Puts the vegetables away and starts applauding)
About the formats, if Nintendo wants to put the best logical format : Eon. (It's a cool name :clap: )
If Nintendo wants everything for themselves at once: Rs-on
I don't see how or why they could do unlimited. Very little Nintendo cards & forces new players into turmoil. Tyranitar hit the nail on the head of why we need Eon.
 
Unlimited is a possibility simply because TPC has a history of disliking formats from what I have seen. They very well could simply decide, if Nintendo doesnt push them like WotC did, to let the game go formatless and make it easy. Personally, I like Unlimited, but I also like having Unlimited AND a Modified. BUT Id like to see Nintendo do a few more things in terms of OP with Unlimited, much like WotC did at Worlds for 15+. I think almost everyone involved in that event enjoyed it. Having Unlimited as the core " Format " would be risky, but using it occasionally would be incredibly fun in my eyes.

Im reading back a bit and seeing an arguement on Professor Elm here, and basically, if it returns, great, the game becomes a bit faster paced and consistant while not reaching an Unlimited like level. If it doesnt, the game slows down a bit and relies on one draw card a turn, using supporters. I could see this as a move by Nintendo to drop LC and Elm, thus forcing Supporters as the new standard trainers and keeping the game consistant, yet sane. Its a move that I can tell is intended to be done sometime in the future anyways, so the question now is rather or not they do it now or later. Either way keeps the format well balanced and fun, but its just going to dictate the speed a bit. Not enough to really matter though.

And I never though that ME, everyones FAVORITE Professor Champion, would be APPLAUDED on Pokegym ever again. lol. ( Yes, thats my new line and title for myself. Oh ho ho im a funny funny man! )
 
Nice post Tyranitar666...I thought that the Japanese game was block based: eg The Gym block was not mixed with anything else. Each individual block was considered to be a seperate game.

Pokémon always seems at its best when decks have a high degree of consistancy. Without that consistancy pokémon just becomes Flipémon :( I like match play for just that reason that on the occasions when a good consistant deck fails to operate like it is intended you still have two other chances to win the match.

Taking away Elm will have an adverse effect on deck consistancy. Just how bad the effect will be I'm not good enough to predict. Got four holo Delcatty's though just in case ;)

I hope that in tournament play an intentional muligan is allowed just like in M:tg. Magic always looked to me like it would suffer horribly from top-decking but this doesn't seem to be the case.(I'm a Magic n00b) I suspect that the ability to Muligan your hand at the start of a game is largely responsible for this.
 
Actually it was only the Gym Block (and then again when the cards changed backs) that was deemed a different game by TPC, making it more than difficult for WotC to reprint Gym cards in large quantities (if they were able, there'd been dozens of them in LC1 and LC2), which is why only a few got squeezed out as Promos
 
Not really. TPC also pushed WotC to change the card backs when e was coming out because they considered it a different game.
True, they did have rules for making decks with half e cards and half old-back cards, but they were not workable in our enviorment (too open to abuse).
 
Yeah, I am 100% stupid when it comes to what goes on in Japan format wise.

As for the Elm consistancy issue, as I said, Elm makes the format slightly better, BUT, not having Elm does NOT hurt it enough to be noticable. I am 99% sure on this. ESPECIALLY with the dang Delcatty which I cant seem to get ANY of -_-
 
I guess I would be a supporter of TPC if they do toss out the block formats. Though I would actually support the possibility of a way to take some archetypes out, if it means reducing a number of chances to see a deck get obliterated in as little as 3 turns. And a deck that doesn't rely on broken rares would like finding a tournament where a deck which has a variable strategy would win.
 
If I could wish, modified would be R/S up and unlimited would be Expedition and up. I just think that the cards that dominated the modifed in the past will be used just the same and with the old aquapolis and the new R/s, you can make some pretty unstoppable decks. My friend has one that is tremendously broken. I like R/S up because its a new start. None of the old archetypes will be there, so people will have to be "original" for once.

In the end, if they take out elm, I'd proberly be happy. I hate staples.
 
formats? BBB!

When I look at the new nintendo cards I think a lot of the set is unplayble due to the big hitting pokes in the format and high hp evo lines. The smaller 1 stages just can't last. If I could pick formats I would have 2 formats ( unlimited and modified ) and three age groups (10-, 14-, 15+). In unlimited it would be all cards from all sets. This rewards the long time player as it increases the value of their collection. For modified, I would like exp-on with best promos. One card would need to be added to make the 1 stages playable, that is, focus band. Bring back band! BBB!
 
I am a real fan of EON and would support the banning of WotC promo's including best; even if it means the loss of elm, to win this format.

But it seems more and more likely that the format is going to be Nintendo only, or - R&S on so Rson :lol:

As Ttar666 has said..

Ruby and Sapphire On- Believe it or not, many players who I talk to believe this is a near 100% choice on the new format. Unfortunately, I do see it as a likely choice, BUT, I do not think it would be a very wise idea to use this.

And that looks horrible.. Indeed if that is the plan why Jimmer has even intimated that ...

I can't discuss the October 1st announcement, but I can suggest someone just might be listening. *cough*

I hope that is true that Nintendo are listening but the idications we are getting this side of the pond are that Nintedo wants Rson and shot of the WotC cards .. indeed it has been mooted that no support would be forthcoming for tournaments that did not run Rson formats....

As for the listening part well that has yet to be proved and we Europeans are a sceptical bunce following WotCs appalling record over here... I know Nintendo is not WotC but trust has got to be built again and delivering on promises and not messing up the format will do for a start.

So Jimmer I hope you are listening to the call for Eon and that you can influence those that make the decision .. if it is Rson then my Mewtwo EX deck is definitely coming out to play... and it really will be BBP time again.

Rson not good for the game at all we certainly need a few more trainers and releases before we can look at it as a viable format.

Rson just say NO!
 
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UKPokemonPro: Why do you say "more and more likely"?
Just because some small group keeps repeating it, or from some inside source?

I have no indication, from the people that I listen to, that the new modified would have such a drastic cut.

Also, what did you mean by "mooted"? Not familair with "Moot" as a verb, only as an adjective, as in, "the point is moot", meaning argument won't change the outcome. Maybe that's the sense of it and it's used as such in England, but not over here.
If that's the case, jimmer pretty clearly said that they are listening to the discussion going on here, presumably taking the input into account, so it's not moot.
 
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UKPokemonPro: Why do you say "more and more likely"? Just because some small group keeps repeating it, or from some inside source?

I am speaking from what I have been told by people I would expect to have a pretty good steer on where the future of OP is going. The fact that a group in the US are repeating what our various inside sources are telling us in the UK only seems to confirm it.

I have no indication, from the people that I listen to, that the new modified would have such a drastic cut.

But we in the UK do, certainly in a way it makes perfect business sense but I advocate a move to Rson after 3 or 4 Nintendo releases not a sudden shift now after so much pain in the transition from WotC to Nintendo

Also, what did you mean by "mooted"? Not familair with "Moot" as a verb, only as an adjective, as in, "the point is moot", meaning argument won't change the outcome.

Exactly that, we are a cynical and sceptical bunce over here and yes, I do not believe that any debate here will change the outcome. As indeed no debate about who was going to get the license for Pokemon changed the reality of WotC losing it.

If that's the case, jimmer pretty clearly said that they are listening to the discussion going on here, presumably taking the input into account, so it's not moot.

Well was it so clear? And maybe it is just a tactic to keep us onside and happy, heck it even gets us talking about the changes and preparing for whatever they might be. Certainly Nintendo could even go as far as seeding the Rson format with a few vocal figures so that it gets considered and debated.

That way when they do announce Rson as the format people have already come to terms with it...

All I can say is that we are hearing from our sources some very uncomfortable things about the future of OP outside the US and I do not mean just about the format. The lack of direct consultation with any of the UK and Europes MPs is also a concern... I can not and will not discuss all I have been told because of the confidences it may break and because some of it has yet to be confirmed.. but, I repeat:

We have been told by those over here we would expect to know that Rson is the preferred format for OP... and that support for tourneys not running this format maybe denied.

Now that may or may not be true but the fact it is being raised in the US too does make me wonder.

Perhaps it is time for a Jimmer reply with some more substantial than "..someone just might be listening. *cough*" how about confirmation that they are taking our views into account and that a decision on format has not been made!
 
With every week that passes RSon becomes more likely as the chosen format...

Why? because before the end of the year we will have three sets in the RSon Block.

Is this important? Not really, for league play it would be impossible to enforce (ie police) any particular format. So League will be exempt from having to operate a particular format.

Larger scale tournaments are currently RSon, these are currently the pre-releases. I am guessing that there will be an announcement upon some kind of challenge format though probably not until after Sandstorm or possibly to coincide with the release of Champions?? before Christmas.

I really don't think that the format is that big a deal: The most important issue is surely that OP gets started.

From a European perspective unless OP is delivered on a similar time-scale to the USA then I fear that the game will continue its decline outside the USA..after hitting our collective heads against a variety of brick walls over the past few years it won't take much more for us to realise that the level of pain that we are experiencing in Europe just isn't worth enduring.
 
I definately put my vote in for Expedition-and-on format. Although it seems strange, but I still dont have a single copy of the R/S cards (with teh exception of the promos). I think it would be nice to see Nintendo "DO that VOODOO that they DO so well," (in other words, if the R/S cards are 100% compatible with the old cards, then let the old cards in) and allow the Expedition, Aquapolis, and Skyridge cards so at least the few of us ppl (who dont have R/S cards) have an advantage.
 
Arthas_Zero said:
I definately put my vote in for Expedition-and-on format. Although it seems strange, but I still dont have a single copy of the R/S cards (with teh exception of the promos). I think it would be nice to see Nintendo "DO that VOODOO that they DO so well," (in other words, if the R/S cards are 100% compatible with the old cards, then let the old cards in) and allow the Expedition, Aquapolis, and Skyridge cards so at least the few of us ppl (who dont have R/S cards) have an advantage.
Exactly. While I do have a number of R/S cards, I agree. In transition, only allowing the newest cards will restrict a number of people from playing.
Expedition is STILL relatively new, only coming up on its first birthday. Expedition is the start of the E-series, of which EX is a continuation. Even if Expedition-on would not be the format Nintendo wants to carry into 2004, at least START with it for a few months to get people acquainted. Changing too much is not the best move in my opinion...
 
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