Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Sick of People Borrowing Decks Instead Of Making There Own

Dragonstar said:
If you are not buying cards to play then you should not be playing! It is not fair to all those people who buy packs to make or improve there deck to lose to someone like Raikou who owns 0 cards past Skyridge. Also you should not be ashamed since you are doing little to keep the card game alive since teh best thing you can probably do for Pokemon to show your support is buy there products. You also say then only play in booster drafts, well let me see are there any major tournaments like cities, states, and nationals, and worlds where drafting was the main event but as we know there aren't very mainy major tournament drafts at least not here in Nevada where there is really not much of any kind of tournaments to begin with.

there is nothing worng with letting people borrow decks. i let one on my best friend's 10 yr old brother use my Garde/ton/catty at the SSC. he didnt do well but that is besides the point. and even if he did win no one was standing over his sholder and no one played his cards for him. its a game and i know alot is at stake but you cant throw a fit just because some one who borrowed a deck did well. that just show the humanity and the generousity of the person who loned out the deck. its the same as letting someone borrow cards to enhance there deck
 
I built a deck for one of my friends(like a starter without the useless pokemon) and let him hang onto the cards(Thankyou prerelease.)Even though they're just starting out you think they have a lot of cards? I didn't attend a prerelease till Magma Aqua. Does that mean I don't support? It's not what you buy. It's what you do. If you're willing to play then go ahead. When there's a will there's a way. Except me not going to Worlds. SOB...
 
Metal Master said:
I built a deck for one of my friends(like a starter without the useless pokemon) and let him hang onto the cards(Thankyou prerelease.)Even though they're just starting out you think they have a lot of cards? I didn't attend a prerelease till Magma Aqua. Does that mean I don't support? It's not what you buy. It's what you do. If you're willing to play then go ahead. When there's a will there's a way. Except me not going to Worlds. SOB...
Did you not read what I already posted! If you are not buying product then you are not supporting the company, some people who are borowing decks are only doing so because they haven't been buying any cards themselves and there for are not supporting the company.
 
Ok.. Ok .. Parent's.. didn't mean to touch a nerve with you guys.. cheez.. Demetre Built his deck that he used at the South Challenge and Came in 2nd... So I know these kids are good.. I guess what I should have said is...

SOME 10- kids can build there own decks, but possibly get help from other Players at tournys, leagues, etc... and some of these kids are talented enough to do it themselves.. which is great IMHO... becuz it means they have learened Strategy, Math, and Creativity! ;)

So if I offended anyone.. Parents of the well deserved Pokemon Kids... it was not intended as such. I was merely stating that wsomewhere along the line, Kids look to "Older" kids for assistance in good Combos or the all important Desire to Build a Competitive Deck!

Team Cook.. I gotta a few deck ideas for you if you ever want them... most are Rogue Style, but can be Competitive if the right amount of time was designated to it! And you guys are Great Players.. don't Short Change Team Cook!!
 
Argh!

Alright, personally, this thread absolutely sickens me. I have not been this OFFENDED by one sides arguement in who knows how long. I can garuntee you that if you let the entire 10- division use their own decks that you'd see a bunch of random thrown together cards using their favorite Pokemon. Less than 5% of the 10- player base does not have the advanced understanding of the game to constructively build a strong deck. 95% of the 10- players do not use their own deck at tournaments. I think the fact someone is UPSET at this is laughable. I would say the same if it was about the 11-14 division, and even at 15+ it isn't even a problem!

The difficulty of a tournament is not in the deck building. With the existance of something known as COMMUNICATION, no one uses their " Own Deck ". There are such things known as Playtesting Groups. Groups of people who work together to test out decks against the field to find out what the best deck in the metagame is. BUT OOPS. Others helped them make their deck! THEY SHOULD BE BANNED! THEY SHOULD GO TO HELL, THOSE SINNERS! Now, your also telling me that someone should see the best decks in the format and opt NOT to use them, KNOWING they are handicapping themselves from winning prizes and an invite and or free trip? You would have to be an idiot or obscenely rich enough not to care to intentionally worsen your chances.

Its really funny to see this arguement as most strong players agree that it shows MORE skill to be able to recieve a new deck and use it skillfully and win. By just recieving a new deck you are actually HANDICAPPED as you are unfamilar with how it plays, and how it competes in certain match ups. That is what testing is for. Not so you can feel all warm and fuzzy inside for " Making Your Own Deck " but so you can give yourself an edge over the competition by knowing secret strategies you can only learn frome xperience. Giving someone a strong deck does not make them a favorite to win. If you want your child to win a competition based solely on the fact that you want him to face crappy decks, than fine, take that and be satisfied knowing he/she won because they fought weak decks. Take pride in knowing they won and EARNED their win against the BEST decks. I look at it this way. If you lost a tournament, your deck wasn't the best there. Live with it. I lost in the finals at the ECSC to Shiftry. It was hands down the better deck and I should not have beat it. Do I make some complaint that illegitimatizes my opponent or his deck? No. I should have done better, not that my opponent should have done worse. I'd rather expect the BEST of MYSELF over expecting FLAWS in my opponent. Look what that is trying to say. Your trying to say that your 10- player should win via opponents weakness not his/her own strength.

People borrow other decks because they are GOOD and better for a reason. This is a TRADING CARD GAME. Certain decks ARE the best. Usually about 3 are NOTICIBLY better than the others to the point where you are handicapping yourself by not using them or direct counters. The entire purpose of this style of game lends itself to the fact that not everyone can be original and win. Sure, if infinite viable decks exist, SURE, everyone can be winners, but when you look at it, that simply isn't true. Usually there are 10 or less VIABLE decks available to be played. What happens once all 10 have been discovered? EXACTLY. Its no longer possible to be original AND win. Deal with it.

Also, what is wrong with borrowing cards? The game is obviously doing fine right now. Not everyone has the money to support the game as much as they'd like to. OH I GUESS THAT EIGHT YEAR OLD SHOULD JUST GO GET A JOB THAN! Thats ridiculous. Yelling at someone for borrowing their parents or friends deck whent hey are 10- is HORRIBLE. You should be ASHAMED of yourself. There is not a single kid that age who should possibly own all those cards unless their parents buy them than. I guess the parents play too. That now means its the parents cards! OOPS. Where does said kid go there? The best they can do is buy a booster here and there when they save up any money they do get. I would be standing the same stance on this entire ( with different arguements ) if this were involving the 15+ division...BUT ITS KIDS. ITS FRIGGIN KIDS.

I am tired of EXCUSES as to why people lose. " ITS AN ARCHETYPE! THAT LOSS DOESNT COUNT! ". " HE BORROWED HIS DECK! " GIVE ME A BREAK. Why not stop looking for excuses to your loss and realize that maybe you DESERVED a loss here and there? " HE FLIPPED ALL HEADS! I HAD A CRAP DRAW! " IT HAPPENS. Until you play FLAWLESSLY, don't be upset at how good your opponent or his or her deck is. You should be striving to get to a point where you can BEAT those GOOD decks. Its funny to see someone upset that they lost because their opponent had A GOOD DECK. Thats what it comes down to. Your angry because this 10- player lost because he DIDNT use the best decks and someone else DID.

Now say you playtest all month before a tournament. You plan on using Blaziken. You know it inside and out. Your friend has a deck and you feel it is the better deck after playing vs it. WHAT in Gods name makes it so WRONG to switch decks because you think you have a better chance? NOTHING. This shouldn't even be an arguement.

As for supporting the company. By attending the events and giving them a large turn out you make the game appear stronger and more players will play. The bigger the tournament turn outs, the more people play. One person not buying a set does not even go registered by Nintendo. The money is not noticed. By supporting the game by playing is enough. As long as cards are in open circulation, AND THEY ARE, its fine. I'm done. Seriously, before I get upset, I'm done.
 
Good lord Tyranitar666 what was that! You talk about how all 10- players would use random decks if they made there own but that is how you learn to build decks. Make it then test it! There are leagues for them to play test at or get deck ideas from. As for you saying a large turn out makes the game apear stronger and more players will play, well you would have trouble proving that fact here since every pre-release we've had less players showing up and at our state championships only half of the 32 people were from Nevada so obviosly your statement isn't true everywhere now is it. While on that topic we have no playtesting group probably because the fact is we have so few people and we rarely have major tournaments here, so what is there really to test for. Borrowed decks is the topic of this thread not NET Decks if they can make a deck they see and learn to play it well by play testing then that is good for them. You also say the game is doing fine right now, well if it was we would be back to the 11 card pack count, we would have an unlimited tournament for worlds, and Pokemon would be one of the top 3 Card Games. Also you say this argument is about kids if you actually read the post 2 of the 3 people were in the 15+ age group like the #20 post says. Maybe you should read more and preach less. I think i've said enough.
 
Just a suggestion, Dragonstar... You've just recently registered on the PokeGym and have spent the majority of the time attacking issues that simply do not matter, as well as insulting several members in the process. I'd actually recommend reading what has been said, before you start preaching. This is common practice in OTHER card game, as you frequent a few other apparently. So, since you're experienced in other games, do you see the Gestapo patrolling the tables to look for borrowed decks? I didn't think so.

In your other topic, the one regarding a seperate Unlimited Worlds, you're promoting the use of older cards.. yet in this topic you're mad at players who aren't purchasing booster packs. You've just contridicted yourself. Anyone who has played in a competitive Unlimited tournament knows that the metagame is filled with older cards that don't generate ANY profit to Pokemon USA or Nintendo. Why should Pokemon Organized Play sanction a tournament if 90% of the cards used in any given deck are from three to five year old sets?

Your logic is flawed. "Borrowing" or "Copying" decks/cards does not harm the game. It does not hurt a tournament's attendance. I've been to a store where Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon are scheduled on the same day and whenever a sanctioned event occurs, the Yu-Gi players have asked to borrow decks to play. OMG! They should be disqualified because they might actually beat me... =/

Tyranitar brought up a key point, that is it takes skill to pick up a new deck and win with it. Obviously, someone who borrowed a deck the day of the tournament and managed to take first place has experience and skill with the Pokemon TCG.

Now, those players just boosted the attendance of the tournament and most likely the prize structure. Those players just added a fresh new batch of decks into the metagame. Those players could be persuaded to pick up the game and trade/purchase cards. Those players could become your friends. I don't see any negatives with more players, do you?

What this all boils down to is our ever growing attitude problem since Nintendo and Pokemon USA took over. I love the fact that we have all these nice tournaments and qualifiers, especially since the 15+ group is back for good. What I don't like is the attitude that accompanies the competitive atmosphere of these events, the attitude that you showed when you started this thread. You made this topic simply to whine about Player A or B winning, not about borrowed decks. I'm sure if the players had constructed their own decks with their own cards there would be some other fault to blame for their record. Don't need that here and I do not appreciate it when I'm judging/playing.
-Phil
 
Why would Worlds be Unlimited if packs were 11 Size, That I dont get.

Also, Theres no group in NEVADA? you can't have some excuse for that, I playtest with ppl online from everywhere, from WA to NY. and DOWN To Mexico and back up =D.

And Borrowing decks? Im not gonna event comment on that. Chris said it all in his post.

~Truk
 
Dragonstar, personally I am just sickened by your attitude towards everyone in this topic that has rebutted.

Fortunately for me, GLP said much of what I was going to say, and TTar said some fine key points there as well. However, your responses have been absolutely narrow minded if you ask me. For one, I know as a fact that the game is doing better actually with more events out there last time I checked, as a whole. Just looking at Nevada, where you play, is a POOR argument to shut that kind of idea down. There have been more players going to tournaments with the increased amount of large scale organized events out there. Also, where is the logic in the statement that the game would be doing better if the packs were 11 cards instead of 9? A Difference in tow cards? Tell us to buy packs to support the game but complain about a insignificant two cards, that makes sense! Unfortunately there was a large slump during the time that nintendo was in the process of obtaiing the rights making pokemon drop out of the top three games, but I'm sure many players will agree with me that pokemon will make a rise thanks to what players are being offered now. I'm not even going in to the unlimited sections, GLP covered that one perfectly.

You know, I'm gonna get too heated if I continue right now, I need to clear my mind.
 
Whatever, if you don't like what I'm saying then just don't read it. No one is making you read them and frankly, I don't care one way or the other. Most of my threads talk about upcomming tournaments here and what has happened to many players here and if anything simmilar to it has happened anywhere else, maybe our state is the only one having so many problems, and if so maybe POP should have done something about most of our problems Feb. since that is when I reported them to begin with.

Also, if you read the first page you would have seen that some people feel that people shouldn't borrow decks either.
 
Last edited:
GymLeaderPhil said:
In your other topic, the one regarding a seperate Unlimited Worlds, you're promoting the use of older cards.. yet in this topic you're mad at players who aren't purchasing booster packs. You've just contridicted yourself. Anyone who has played in a competitive Unlimited tournament knows that the metagame is filled with older cards that don't generate ANY profit to Pokemon USA or Nintendo. Why should Pokemon Organized Play sanction a tournament if 90% of the cards used in any given deck are from three to five year old sets?
-Phil
What does an Unlimited Worlds have to do with borrowing decks and how does it make me contridict myself? Hmmmm....... it doesn't. If they had an Unlimited Worlds, modified players would still play modified, people who brought all those packs back when Wizards ran the game would be able to play again and would pay for the tournament themselves with there entry fee, and possibly buy new packs so they can compette in modified tournaments. Moving on. And as for why POP should sanction a tournament for them, hmmmm......because it is Pokemon Organized Play it's not named Pokemon Modified play, or Pokemon Nintendo Play.
 
Ok, first of all, if your unhappy with how the player base in Nevada is, DRIVE OUT OF STATE TO A TOURNAMENT. SUPPORT THE GAME. Your so " SUPPORT THE GAME! SUPPORT THE GAME! " yet you won't even make any effort to drive to an event. I spent 32 hours awake to drive 10 hours to get the Maryland for the ECSC. I'd say I " Support My Game "

Teach new players to play. THATS supporting the game. Hold weekly tournaments. THATS supporting the game. What your saying is SUPPORT NINTENDOS WALLET. Big difference. I personally LOVE what Nintendo has done with the game. 100 times more than what WotC did. I am so happy with what has been done. Improved prize structure. That brings in more players. Improved Organized Play. HUGE for bringing in players. The weakening presence of this game and it not being in the t3 is because Pokemon is still very effected by its Fad status. People will shun the game. Its that simple. Buying boosters won't bring in new players. We're already in the game, we will stay. BIG tournaments and lots of players at a store WILL bring in new players.

Theres so many obstacles this great game will have to overcome and "borrowing decks " isn't even at the lowest end of them. Its players showing interest in the game. Your state's "weak" pokemon problems are not in the least bit related to this topic.

And I GUESS those extra 2 cards make such a big difference in the packs. You know, those 2 common cards you have playsets of by the time you buy ten packs. Yep. Notice that at the same time we lost commons we get reverse holos and the chance to get 2 rares a pack? Plus the more dynamic looking EX cards? Ever think the lower worthless card count went towards these cards? What are the pack sizes in Japan? That probably dictates things more than our sales. If I understand correctly as well, Sales are UP from when WotC left the game. If anything Nintendo is gaining sales and if this Worlds goes off well, I do expect a bit of revival. I have friends who quit and learned of this year's World's prizes and contemplate returning. Buying your own cards does not save a game. Player base saves a game.

Anyways, I am done for now. I am off to bed now its 330 am. I don't need to deal with this anymore. I still insist that your just angry because your friend needs a scape goat as to why they lost and you came here to complain. Also, I didn't bother reading anything beyond your first topic post because simply, I think you convinced me of all I needed to be convinced of right there. If you have any legitimate objects to what i've said, tell me. I'll debate with you. Debates are FUN!
 
Tyranitar666 said:
Teach new players to play. THATS supporting the game. Hold weekly tournaments. THATS supporting the game.
Read my signature that alone will answer that statement. As a far as the nine cards per pack I was just saying how if you compare the drafts with older packs (11 cards per pack) to the newer packs (9 cards per pack), it is just a lot better and easier to draft when there are more cards in each pack since you will usually see better decks made because of the fact it is easier to get more parts of your evolutionary chain.
 
Dragonstar said:
What does an Unlimited Worlds have to do with borrowing decks and how does it make me contridict myself? Hmmmm....... it doesn't. If they had an Unlimited Worlds, modified players would still play modified, people who brought all those packs back when Wizards ran the game would be able to play again and would pay for the tournament themselves with there entry fee, and possibly buy new packs so they can compette in modified tournaments. Moving on. And as for why POP should sanction a tournament for them, hmmmm......because it is Pokemon Organized Play it's not named Pokemon Modified play, or Pokemon Nintendo Play.
bull, an unlimited worlds would discourage people from playing because now older players would have NO reason to buy packs. I'll edit this post later, because I'm late for class.
 
Two things:

Dragonstar... i don't know if the OP there is bad, but like someone else.. i think ttar said, drive out of state for tournies or start holding tournies yourself and getting people to come and teach your friends to play. no one really cares that the op is terrible in nevada...i'm seeing it quite strong in almost everywherei nthe US now except the real northeast and possibly some northern states like north dakota =/

and guys, dragonstar doesn't respond to half of you or half of your points because he can't find an excuse for them to be wrong. Ttar said in good english (i suck at speaking ;[) all the points that need to be said about this topic.

lets let it die, if dragonstar can't realize his idealism is flawed, then whatever =/
 
Articjedi said:
bull, an unlimited worlds would discourage people from playing because now older players would have NO reason to buy packs. I'll edit this post later, because I'm late for class.
Can you prove that it would discorage people from playing? No, and why is that, oh ya because there is none as of this moment.
 
Whatever is right Raikou, but maybe you should learn how to read since my post all say League Leader of Cheeseboy Comics Nevada and a few of my other post are talking about the torunaments I am going to run.
 
This reply really should be for the worlds forum, but since you made your case here, oh well.

Hey, didn't I say I was going to finish my post later. Anyway, unlimited tournaments will discourage buying new cards because now that unlimited tournaments are supported, there is no reason to buy modfied at all. The unlimited format hasn't had a major change in decks for years, and there is no reason to change when all of your broken cards were released in base set. In fact, all unlimited would do is divide the game into two groups, you would have the unlimited players who use nothing but their old cards and maybe buy a couple singles of the new set, if even that, then you would have the newer modified players who have no ability to get those cards, deciding to play "type 2." I'd love to make the "WOTC doesn't support their type 1 arguement," but that's common.

You also weaken playtesting groups, the people who are getting back in have no reason to play modified, so therefore they don't play with the modfied players, no interaction, no improved decks, no new ideas.
 
Like I said before is there a way to prove that they would not buy any new packs if they could play unlimited? The fact is you can't because there are no real major unlimited events.
 
Back
Top