Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Slow play

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afstandopleren

afstandopleren

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Since I don't know where to put this, I put it in the 'safe' place to be discussed and disgussed. :rolleyes:

Anyways, so I've been slowplayed @ my Nats last year and I started wondering stuff like:
Why is it so that it's possible that when a player is well known for slow playing to victory can't be banned?

To be honest, I consider myself an honest player upholding the Spirit The Game wherever I can and I was very naive at that time. Needles to say when I encountered someone who actually did that, I was stunned and flabbergasted. Despite my knowledge of the rulings, there was too much fireworks in my brain ("This really isn't happening, no one can be that unfair....") going off that left me paralyzed of finding the best action or way to deal with the situation at hand.

Being the person who I am, I never seem to be able to translate what is on my mind into words when the situation needs words to be solved at that very moment. Despite that, I could not help wondering if there was more that could be done to prevent it from happening. That caused me to only be able to tell the Head Judge of the event AFTER the damage was done. The timing wasn't great as all the results had been processed and was told that I just should have gotten him to watch the match.

A very expectable response, but one that doesn't vibe with me. It's like putting the blame on the fair player who wasn't able to take 'responsibility' for the actions of his opponent. And having trust issues, trying to proof something that can't be proofed by words (and the people that are slowplaying obviously won't slow play when there is a Judge in the neighborhood), I wasn't sure if I was going to be believed by telling it to any Judge.

Despite the fireworks in my brain that made me leave Nats, I've still been in turmoil since that day about the people from the TCG, I studied myself and some of the moral aspects of the game. Now it wasn't just me that day that could prevent it from happening: It was everyone surrounding that slowplayer. Look at it like this: To keep the atmosphere good and fair, you have to be able to take note of the people playing next to you if you are able, and help by pointing out any serious rule breaking to the Judges.

A different scenario: Now what if a new player gets slowplayed at his first tournament, despite doing incredibly well.For the sake of the scenario: Like needs only 1 Win to get to the TC but his last opponent slowplayed him out of it. Is it really his fault for not knowing the concept of slowplaying, and therefor not being able to tell the Judge that his opponent is cheating? Why do the people around him not notice? Even if people notice what's going on, why doesn't anyone take responsibility by saying what's going on to a Judge?


Now chess clocks obviously aren't the way to go. In my opinion the only way for slow play to be dealt with is when everyone takes a piece of the responsibility cake and has the guts to tell the Judge about him, even if it's for someone else in the competitive environment.
 
Well afstandopleren... Why don't you ask the judge to watch from a far without telling the opponent and explain to the judge that you believe if your opponent is aware of the judge he will take less time on purpose?

Just an idea....
 
Long time no see! :thumb:

Doesn't the HJ have other important things to do as well? The Judges were already on route that day to keep an eye out for him and still my opponent managed to do it. So when it concerns Judges...They are only human and I don't expect them to mulitask as there are more people they have to focus on that just him. But if my fellow players sitting next to us the whole time could also have been aware and if they noticed it, why couldn't they give the Judges a holler or speak up? It's not just my inability to fight the state of flabbergasted-nes or the Judges who were all busy attending to other players questions and needs. We were all responsible for letting it happen and let it go rewarded (Mr cheat went to worlds).
 
I don't know if I would ever be able to pay enough attention to the game next to me to know if someone was being cheated by slow play.

Trouble is, there are different types of slow play . . .

People who just play slower than normal all the time cos they are careful or nervous

People who slow the game down by doing all the legit moves they can, but at a reasonable speed

People who check each discard pile 47 times and spend 5 minutes hovering an Energy over a Pokemon before putting it back in their hand.

Only the 3rd one is illegal AFAIK.

If someone slow plays me, I ask them politely to speed up. If that doesn't work, I tell them I will ask a judge to watch the game. That always does the trick so far. No-one wants to sit there being watched by a judge and feeling pressured to make moves quickly. If it ever didn't work, then I'd carry out what I said.
 
@Baby Mario: My opponent was playing Kingdra vs a healing Dusknoir deck that heals 60 per turn (I was fully set up). He slow played by retreat out of harms way, SSU-ing and taken a minimum of 1 minute to play a card). That is what I classify as slow play as well...and he also hovered a while with an energy before attaching it to his 'lost cause'.

Truth to be told, if a player is KNOWN for these tactics, why can't appropriate actions be taken even if it's hard to proof? Yes there are lowlifes in the pokemon scene, but why can't they be dealt with when they cross the line...or are atleast already sadly known for it?
 
afstandopleren said:
@Baby Mario: My opponent was playing Kingdra vs a healing Dusknoir deck that heals 60 per turn (I was fully set up). He slow played by retreat out of harms way, SSU-ing and taken a minimum of 1 minute to play a card). That is what I classify as slow play as well...and he also hovered a while with an energy before attaching it to his 'lost cause'.

Truth to be told, if a player is KNOWN for these tactics, why can't appropriate actions be taken even if it's hard to proof? Yes there are lowlifes in the pokemon scene, but why can't they be dealt with when they cross the line...or are atleast already sadly known for it?
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The first bit of what he was doing (retreating, SSU-ing) is just legit good play to keep yourself in the game. Taking a minute to play a card and Energy hovering is stalling/slow play imo.

I dunno what Judges do about people with bad reps. You kind of HOPE that they would keep an eye out, but if no-one brings it up with the judges, how are they going to know?
 
I guess I should have been more specific why I count that as slow play. He did that with great pauzes in between his actions (1 of those annoying un-rule-able things). He was ahead in prizes and since he couldn't do anything else, he stalled me out by 'thinking' a minute or 2 before every action, way to long to be acceptable, especially for someone playing a speed deck.

BTW, the Judges know of him, hence why they were already on the look out, but they hope he'll rot away like a bad apple should......like that's going to happen any time soon.... >_>
 
The first step you need to take in handling this problem is simply to learn to play as fast as possible yourself. This will take care of the problem in a large number of these types of situations. You can't control your opponent or the judges, so maximize your own control over the situation. Some players are just really good at slowplaying 'legally' to the point that even if a judge is watching it's not going to keep them from doing it. I've never judged, but I imagine it's a big deal as a judge to have to accuse a player of slow play, so a lot of them probably won't do it without pretty hard evidence.

Obviously alert the judges if you think your opponent is slowplaying, but you can't expect them to step in for you or see it the same way as you every time. Just try to play fast to avoid these situations.

Remember also that the time limit is a part of the game, so if your deck is consistently going to time and leaving you vulnerable to slow play, maybe you need to reconsider your deck choice.
 
As a new player (an old player coming back after 10 years :p) I'd be interested to know what a usual time limit is for games. Usually I can play in 20 minutes, but sometimes a match goes for about 1.5 hours (without either player deliberately slowing the game).
 
Tournament time limits are currently 40 minutes for Single Games, and 1 hour for best 2/3. These are minimums, though, and the TO can change them upward at his/her discretion. I believe that US Nationals and Worlds were run using 90 minute 2/3 in the top cut (though I wasn't at Worlds, unfortunately).
 
This always has been a problem everywhere. The problem is, is that no punishments are handed out. I've had judges watch my matches vs a well known player to stall. Said player doesn't speed up play and no punishments are handed out. Obviously watching isntt doing anything.

Slow-play will always be an ever going battle.
 
Actually! This is a GREAT question.
When you have new players of course they take longer, or older players who aren't too familiar with the cards

But we're talking about players with a reputation for stalling
Example The Match Listings go up and You see you are playing "Mr Smith"...If you say who is Mr Smith and then several player proceed to warn you..."Watch him because he will slow play you, or he will slow roll you", or if a judge even says he does it all the time....

Why aren't these players REALLY punished. I Know for a fact That if each player were to nominate Players with a reputation for slow playing... a CLEAR list of slow players would emerge. Why HASN'T this been addressed.
 
Although it's not a fool proof fix to the actual issue that's happening, I think it would help immensely if the rules were changed so that when time is called Player A finishes their turn, Player B has a turn, Player A has a turn, and then Player B has a turn, and the game ends. Obviously slowplay would still be a bit of an issue and it's not a perfect plan (and would probably add time to events) but it would help, imo.

Good discussion. :)
 
I get called on stalling a couple times per tournament. I'm not trying to stall, but I am somewhat slow and thoughtful in the things I do during a game. And it really makes me mad when you're trying to focus and search for something or do something else and your opponent is telling you to hurry up, then turn around and take their good sweet time. Or, they basically yell at you as soon as it's your turn to hurry up and go so it can be their turn again. I have NEVER told somebody to hurry or rush through something. I don't see the point, unless they're taking more than 2 minutes (the legal limit) doing one or less actions. And your opponent will only call it when you're ahead, so I think that people who call you on stalling (again, unless they're over the legal limit) are just sore losers looking to try to squeeze in a cheap win. :nonono:
 
I think a major problem in this is actually league. Everyone gets used to taking a long time because it doesn't matter at all a single game could take all of league. If league were to have time limits as well players would be better used to it and be faster.

If you are never put in a situation to be faster or asked to be faster you will always slow play because it doesn't seem like an issue. What I hate most is when you play a card like wager and your opponent loses says they drew crud makes a depressed sound when they draw and then proceeds to look at all the cards that can't help them during their turn. If a player can not play any cards during there turn or has finished playing all the cards possible they really should pass it to their opponent.

What slimeygrimey said is right too. I know tons of games where I knew time was running out and my opponent was playing slowly.... so I just played blitz speed to make a comeback.
 
The Dark Toxicroak said:
I think a major problem in this is actually league. Everyone gets used to taking a long time because it doesn't matter at all a single game could take all of league. If league were to have time limits as well players would be better used to it and be faster.
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Although I understand the sentiment, having time limits for games would absolutely kill most leagues. At least, I know it would kill my league, that's mostly inhabited by Juniors who aren't competitive at all. I'm willing to bet it's the same for a lot of other leagues out there too.
 
I think it would be worth trying though. I know everytime I play a junior it takes forever because they aren't paying attention at all. Sometimes I would be waiting there saying your turn 5ish times only for them to look after a minute or two of randomly looking at anything shiny/electronic/ various other things just to have to look at me and say is it my turn yet. Then they just attack without playing anything and start looking at something random again lol.

Actually I guess that is more of an attention problem then a time problem..
 
Rikko145 said:
I get called on stalling a couple times per tournament. I'm not trying to stall, but I am somewhat slow and thoughtful in the things I do during a game. And it really makes me mad when you're trying to focus and search for something or do something else and your opponent is telling you to hurry up, then turn around and take their good sweet time. Or, they basically yell at you as soon as it's your turn to hurry up and go so it can be their turn again. I have NEVER told somebody to hurry or rush through something. I don't see the point, unless they're taking more than 2 minutes (the legal limit) doing one or less actions. And your opponent will only call it when you're ahead, so I think that people who call you on stalling (again, unless they're over the legal limit) are just sore losers looking to try to squeeze in a cheap win. :nonono:
Click to expand...

Wait . . . are you saying that it is legal to take TWO MINUTES to do ONE action (e.g. attach an Energy)?

Is that really true? It doesn't sound right to me.
 
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