State's deck

[Meesie6x6]

80 on turn one! my golly that sounds purty good there, ghost spread.

i wish my deck could do that much damage on turn 1.

Sarcasm Detector:
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Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

^ Okay, take it from someone who's had a helluvalot of experience with Porygon-Z - it is not a bad deck.

The deck has one of the best in-built acceleration engines in the game - when you have a Claydol, a Porygon2 and a Porygon-Z Lv.X in play, you're using two supporters per turn, searching for any two cards you want from your deck then drawing into them with Claydol. This essentially means that, if you want, you can search for 2 TMs per turn, increasing your damage output by 40 a turn. With the release of DCE, you can get an instant Overclock, allowing to further increase your speed. Overclock, the main attack of the deck, is a great attack as well. You tell me it's a bad deck when I have 4 TMs attached to Porygon-Z and dealing 120 damage for 2 energy. And when you have a Porygon-Z Lv.X in play, it's all too easy to have the ability to do 160 damage a turn.

The deck also has favourable matchups to a lot of the decks in the current format. It discards Dialga G Lv.X's precious Special Metal energies, allowing you to easily KO Dialga G Lv.X – you only need 4 TMs to do so. It also has a type advantage over Garchomp C – you KO it with 1 TM attached. Toxicroak G Promo? Run a 1-(1)-1 Exploud SV tech line. You don’t have to, of course, but it helps against FlyChamp, Toxicroak G Promo, and will help against Great Donphan when it comes out. That being said, Porygon-Z has a pretty much auto-loss to Donphan, so I probably won’t run it after HGSS for this reason. Toxicroak G Promo can’t take down an entire deck by itself. And neither can the Machamp from FlyChamp. Porygon-Z also has a type advantage over Flygon, allowing it to easily 1HKO it.

And after your awesome setup you get owned by 1 energy (and an e-gain) on a basic pokemon.

Exploud???, seriously. bright look 60, dragon rush KO you OHKO my precious (energyless) garchomp and i toxipromo revenge kill you.

 

[ryanvergel]

promocroak in SPs

machamp by itself, with flygon, and with gengar

relicanth in decks from gyarados to flygon to almost anything

all relevant FIGHTING pokemon.

then lets discuss spiritomb and DG with deafen to stop the TM attachments

then we talk about gengar's resistance and poltergeist billions of damage

then we can start talking about GG power locking and never allowing the movement of TMs

or palkia lock also sniping/stopping powers

gyarados gets easy OHKO tradeoffs

what exactly is this deck good against?!

The deck also has favourable matchups to a lot of the decks in the current format. It discards Dialga G Lv.X's precious Special Metal energies, allowing you to easily KO Dialga G Lv.X
only if the DGX player does not correctly power spray that pokepower when it comes into play...

– you only need 4 TMs to do so. It also has a type advantage over Garchomp C – you KO it with 1 TM attached. Toxicroak G Promo? Run a 1-(1)-1 Exploud SV tech line.
bright look bait/shut off by DGX/difficult to get up, etc

You don’t have to, of course, but it helps against FlyChamp, Toxicroak G Promo, and will help against Great Donphan when it comes out. That being said, Porygon-Z has a pretty much auto-loss to Donphan, so I probably won’t run it after HGSS for this reason. Toxicroak G Promo can’t take down an entire deck by itself. And neither can the Machamp from FlyChamp.
yes they can. that 1 promocroak should take down 2-3 porygons through aarons. that 2/1/2/1 or 3/2/3/1 champ line can handle porygon by itself. just use a NM or palmers to essentially get 3+ machamps up.

Porygon-Z also has a type advantage over Flygon, allowing it to easily 1HKO it.

replies in bold

 

[vegitalian]

promocroak in SPs

machamp by itself, with flygon, and with gengar

relicanth in decks from gyarados to flygon to almost anything

Relicanth - how? Fighting weakness???

all relevant FIGHTING pokemon.

You just named all relevant fighting Pokemon...

then lets discuss spiritomb and DG with deafen to stop the TM attachments

I've run the deck against DG - It's probably the easiest matchup I've played with the deck. Spiritomb? Good Porygon lists will run Cyclone energies, which will work unless you flood your bench with Tombs, which usually is a mistake anyways (unless you run Glistomb, which has a ton of holes anyways)

then we talk about gengar's resistance and poltergeist billions of damage

Poltergeist billions??? How? Smart players vs. Gengar will keep as few Trainers/Supporters in hand as possible. I've also beat Gengar decks with my Pory list.

then we can start talking about GG power locking and never allowing the movement of TMs

Again, a smart player will place them properly in the first place.

or palkia lock also sniping/stopping powers

The deck doesn't rely on powers. It's supporter heavy, which means it manages regardless if Download is used or not.

gyarados gets easy OHKO tradeoffs

Pory gets even easier OHKO tradeoffs.

what exactly is this deck good against?!

Everything aside from Machamp and Gengar - though it has a chance in those matchups

replies in bold

You really need to try playing against a good list at some point...

 

[LegendaryLugia]

"only if the DGX player does not correctly power spray that pokepower when it comes into play..."

If the Dialga player does Power Spray, you, at the very least, waste a Power Spray. Then you wait until Porygon-Z Lv.X is KO'd and then Premier Ball/NM/Palmer's and get it back into play. If they Power Spray you again, which is fairly unlikely, you can try again. If you can't, you've wasted two of their Power Sprays. Dialga G Lv.X is a tank, but Porygon-Z aims to be hitting with consistent, heavy damage from T2/3. With my Porygon-Z build and top-level Porygon-Z decks, you can accelerate to get a Porygon-Z Lv.X out T3/4. Dialga G can simply not contened with that amout of damage being piled up before they get out their Special Metals. How many Dialga G decks do you know that can consistently get out a Special Metal a turn? None that I know of. I'm more than willing to play you or someone else using Dialga G Lv.X over RS with Porygon-Z to prove my point.

"bright look bait/shut off by DGX/difficult to get up, etc"

Difficult to get up? Possibly. Shut off by DGX? Definitely. Bright Look bait? Well, I run Warp Points but yeah. The point is that it is an invaluable tech if you do get it up and keep it in play - and remember that, with the release of HGSS, you can attach a DCE and retreat so it won't be as likely to be locked by Bright Look, Inviting Trap, Luring Flame etc.

"yes they can. that 1 promocroak should take down 2-3 porygons through aarons. that 2/1/2/1 or 3/2/3/1 champ line can handle porygon by itself. just use a NM or palmers to essentially get 3+ machamps up."

That is why we run Exploud. I know that decks with Promocorak are hard to handle, I know that the 'champ matchup is hard to handle. But the point is that the smart Porygon-Z player can get around these difficulties, and while they may not win it is hardly an auto-loss. Really, I think the deck's main downfall is its fighting weakness. That and its complete shut-down via trainer lock.

Once again, I am not saying that the deck is perfect. I am not saying that it's BDIF. I am stating that the deck can hold its own to the other popular decks in the format and that it is a fun and decent deck choice.

/rant

 

[ryanvergel]

"only if the DGX player does not correctly power spray that pokepower when it comes into play..."

If the Dialga player does Power Spray, you, at the very least, waste a Power Spray. Then you wait until Porygon-Z Lv.X is KO'd and then Premier Ball/NM/Palmer's and get it back into play. If they Power Spray you again, which is fairly unlikely, you can try again. If you can't, you've wasted two of their Power Sprays. Dialga G Lv.X is a tank, but Porygon-Z aims to be hitting with consistent, heavy damage from T2/3. With my Porygon-Z build and top-level Porygon-Z decks, you can accelerate to get a Porygon-Z Lv.X out T3/4. Dialga G can simply not contened with that amout of damage being piled up before they get out their Special Metals. How many Dialga G decks do you know that can consistently get out a Special Metal a turn? None that I know of. I'm more than willing to play you or someone else using Dialga G Lv.X over RS with Porygon-Z to prove my point.

my DGchomp ran 3 power spray. if i knew i was facing porygonZX i would save all 3 for that power. thats the first level up, a premier ball, then that final NM. you should never get to use that power. i would deafen every single turn, and limit your damage to a paltry 20-30 a turn, followed by warp energy/garchomp heals and poketurns. eventually you are hitting for 0.

"bright look bait/shut off by DGX/difficult to get up, etc"

Difficult to get up? Possibly. Shut off by DGX? Definitely. Bright Look bait? Well, I run Warp Points but yeah. The point is that it is an invaluable tech if you do get it up and keep it in play - and remember that, with the release of HGSS, you can attach a DCE and retreat so it won't be as likely to be locked by Bright Look, Inviting Trap, Luring Flame etc.

"yes they can. that 1 promocroak should take down 2-3 porygons through aarons. that 2/1/2/1 or 3/2/3/1 champ line can handle porygon by itself. just use a NM or palmers to essentially get 3+ machamps up."

That is why we run Exploud. I know that decks with Promocorak are hard to handle, I know that the 'champ matchup is hard to handle. But the point is that the smart Porygon-Z player can get around these difficulties, and while they may not win it is hardly an auto-loss. Really, I think the deck's main downfall is its fighting weakness. That and its complete shut-down via trainer lock.

Once again, I am not saying that the deck is perfect. I am not saying that it's BDIF. I am stating that the deck can hold its own to the other popular decks in the format and that it is a fun and decent deck choice.

/rant

my luxchomp ran 3 power spray. if i knew i was facing porygonZX i would save all 3 for that power. thats the first level up, a premier ball, then that final NM. you should never get to use that power. what else would i possibly spray over it? i would treat it just like regigigas or dusknoir X or palkia G X- you save the sprays only for those crucial powers they RELY on to win with. i would deafen every single turn, and limit your damage to a paltry 20-30 a turn, followed by warp energy/garchomp heals and poketurns. eventually you are hitting for 0.

as for exploud- its really not that easy to get set up. usually, an early bright look for 60/70, and then repeat. if you manage to get it to the bench, either bright look again or garchomp snipe usually. its not that hard to take down an exploud.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

You really need to try playing against a good list at some point...

Relicanth - how? Fighting weakness???

what? usually tools are played, or a stadium. if you play none down besides TMs, then awesome, but otherwise relicanth easily does a lot of damage for extremely cheap.

You just named all relevant fighting Pokemon...

donphan?

dialga is the easiest matchup? no way. i would bet money on dialgachomp destroying this deck. this kind of deck is what dialga WANTS to face.

Poltergeist billions??? How? Smart players vs. Gengar will keep as few Trainers/Supporters in hand as possible. I've also beat Gengar decks with my Pory list.

not easy to do against multiple spiritombs and pitch darks

Again, a smart player will place them properly in the first place.

yes, but that also means that you will almost never OHKO (needing 3+PP/4 TMs attached), especially with the absolute difficult of setting up through tomb/psychic lock. my gg list 2-0d porygon ZX in t16 of regionals last year. its an easy matchup. fighting weakness is also quite convenient to take out 4 TMs should you attach them. drop a mesprit and your lock isnt even broken.

Pory gets even easier OHKO tradeoffs.

you kidding me? consistently doing 130 damage? 150 late game? you consistently need 4 TMs on a porygon, which is easily OHKOd. 120 damage can be achieved by gyarados for 2-3 turns in a row very easily- where porygon needs 4 TMs attached (and a pluspower) to OHKO. porygon ZX having 130hp is only a slight advantage. a belt, poketurns/pluspower/skuntank usually does the 130 quite easily. 150HP on gyarados is extremely hard to OHKO. i would love to play gyarados against porygonZ. 120-130 damage is so easy to achieve.

 

[JBowroxmysox]

I'd like to think that y'all are playing about Porygon, but you seem awfully serious. Of course, Ryan's already covered everything I wanna say, but I'm chiming in to let you know that he's dead-on. Promocroak BY ITSELF rips the deck apart. You can kill nothing without the threat of Promocroak taking away 3-4 TMs. Do that twice, and that's game. If you choose to 2HKO the SP Pokemon, then have fun getting Bright Looked and getting taken apart that way. OHKO with 4 TMs and Promocroak comes down. Lose-lose.

FlyChamp...I'd like to think that this one's self-explanatory too, but apparently not. Champ is easy to setup and does 70 for a Fighting, and 130 once he's Leveled-Up. FlyChamp can and will recycle the Level X once or twice, so that's 2-3 OHKO's right there, along with a few 2HKO's along the way. If you do Overload+3 TMs for 100, then Champ will Level Up and OHKO you and now you're down three TMs. KO him, and a couple turns later you're hit again for 130 by Take Out.

Spiritomb-centered decks...where to start? Did you notice the Colorless Resistance? The great setup attack that stops you from rushing them? The Body that severely limits your damage output? Gardy and Gengar (the two greatest Spiritomb-users) have inherent ups on you anyways. Gallade will take down a couple Porygons by itself, and Gardy 2HKO's while sticking the TMs in place. Gengar has Gastly, who shares in Spiritomb's Resistance and Trainer-locking fun. Gengar becomes a freaking tank with Shadow Skip, and can unleash the "Poltergeist for a billion" that Ryan was talking about at anytime due to Spiritomb.

Don't get me started on Dialga. Seriously, don't. I think Ryan got that matchup down well enough already.

By the way, the bit about not relying on Powers was adorable. If you really believe that, then I wanna see how y'all DON'T rely on Cosmic Power to draw into TMs fast and Download to flesh out your hand fast to take advantage of Cosmic Power further.

 

[mario1]

You really need to try playing against a good list at some point...

Are you kidding me?? Seriously have you ever played against Gengar Punch and Run. Not only does the trainer lock kill you but manectric spread plus curse and compound pain without some random queen tech(which would break your consistency) the spread is way too much to handle. I pose the question, have YOU ever player against a good PAR list?

It is quite funny that you think that one teched shadow room gengar also won't wreck a deck full of powers.

On top of the HORRIBLE gengar matchup this deck gets owned by palkia/garchomp lock!!:thumb:

Just thought I would give Ryan some support though he would never need it.LOL:lol: Last time I heard Ryanvergel was a pretty top tier player!!

 

[Meesie6x6]

seriously, if you are thinking porygon Z is a good deck, please take it to states.
(wich means more easy match-ups for me (=)

 

[Suicide]

Do alot of people play those any more? Not really, well mabey Relicanth and maby croak. But they arn't in 100% of the decks out there.

They will be in 100% of the winning decks

 

[Happiny13]

Machamp isn't any good against other stage 2 decks. Garchomp isn't very good against luxchomp, but Garchomp C can't OHKO Garchomp SV without Lucario GL. Garchomp will almost always KO Garchomp and Luxray.

 

[vegitalian]

Seems like all of your buddies came out. Thanks guys.

First off, I have a tech in my deck that one-handedly dilutes any Gengar that tries to win by Shadow Rooming.

Secondly, I don't run Claydol in my Porygon list. No point. Download is a good enough engine, and a couple of Uxies to add consistency has given me all the draw power I need.

Third, what have I been saying about Spiritomb? I run Cyclone. Do you usually stack a bench full of Spiritombs early game?

Fourth, Porygon OHKO's a Chomp C WITHOUT TMs OR an Expert Belt. Dialga G variants without Chomp are easy enough to beat without adding Chomp in there... LOL

Fifth, While I agree that Relicanth has an upper hand against the deck, I'm usually not the one playing the Stadium. One tool and you do 60, that's all you get against me (usually, might get 90 if I do decide to play a Stadium).

Sixth, he hasn't stated anything remotely acknowledgeable as an argument for Dialga, so I won't get you guys started - there's no need.

It's hard to talk about the HGSS metagame/Donphan when you're all (not ya'll, notice) jumping back to past experiences (before DCE was out).

The last point is that you guys can think whatever you want, but HGSS has made it a lot better, and while it may not have done as well as SP decks in the past, a well built deck will be something to contend with.

 

[DIZZtheWHIZZ]

Seems like all of your buddies came out. Thanks guys.

First off, I have a tech in my deck that one-handedly dilutes any Gengar that tries to win by Shadow Rooming.
Good for you. You run Unown G, just like everyone else.

Secondly, I don't run Claydol in my Porygon list. No point. Download is a good enough engine, and a couple of Uxies to add consistency has given me all the draw power I need.
Have fun getting your inconsistent draw engine Power Sprayed.

Third, what have I been saying about Spiritomb? I run Cyclone. Do you usually stack a bench full of Spiritombs early game?
Eh, that could work. It's kinda situational early game though.

Fourth, Porygon OHKO's a Chomp C WITHOUT TMs OR an Expert Belt. Dialga G variants without Chomp are easy enough to beat without adding Chomp in there... LOL
If you're able to attack a Chomp C that's not leveled up, you're facing a bad player. That should never happen, unless it's early game. Also, unless you have like all of your TM's and a Belt on a Porygon, then you should be having a tough time with Dialga. Special Metals, PokeTurns, Healing Breath, and Remove Lost could turn out to be too much.

Fifth, While I agree that Relicanth has an upper hand against the deck, I'm usually not the one playing the Stadium. One tool and you do 60, that's all you get against me (usually, might get 90 if I do decide to play a Stadium).
A good player will likely wait for you to get your Belts/Unown G's/Stadiums BEFORE they bring out the Relicanth. All they need is a Roseannes before they're doing tons of damage out of nowhere.

Sixth, he hasn't stated anything remotely acknowledgeable as an argument for Dialga, so I won't get you guys started - there's no need.
See my response to your fourth statement.

It's hard to talk about the HGSS metagame/Donphan when you're all (not ya'll, notice) jumping back to past experiences (before DCE was out).
Very true. The official set isn't even out yet. We can't really start talking about the set's impact on the Meta until the set's actually released.

The last point is that you guys can think whatever you want, but HGSS has made it a lot better, and while it may not have done as well as SP decks in the past, a well built deck will be something to contend with.
I would love to see a list.

Responses in bold.

 

[tobofett]

um... so you don't care if we say it's bad, but you encourage us to tell you it's not?

lol

 

[vegitalian]

Seems like all of your buddies came out. Thanks guys.

First off, I have a tech in my deck that one-handedly dilutes any Gengar that tries to win by Shadow Rooming.
Good for you. You run Unown G, just like everyone else.

Not Unown G, that would ruin me vs. Relicanth. Something that actually turns it in my favour.

Secondly, I don't run Claydol in my Porygon list. No point. Download is a good enough engine, and a couple of Uxies to add consistency has given me all the draw power I need.
Have fun getting your inconsistent draw engine Power Sprayed.

It's a Supporter draw engine. If I get power sprayed, I can still use my Supporter. Power Spray me enough and I will Mode Crash all your Specials.

Third, what have I been saying about Spiritomb? I run Cyclone. Do you usually stack a bench full of Spiritombs early game?
Eh, that could work. It's kinda situational early game though.

Agreed that it's situational... Although so is a Spiritomb start, or getting 2 of him set up before I can play some trainers I need

Fourth, Porygon OHKO's a Chomp C WITHOUT TMs OR an Expert Belt. Dialga G variants without Chomp are easy enough to beat without adding Chomp in there... LOL
If you're able to attack a Chomp C that's not leveled up, you're facing a bad player. That should never happen, unless it's early game. Also, unless you have like all of your TM's and a Belt on a Porygon, then you should be having a tough time with Dialga. Special Metals, PokeTurns, Healing Breath, and Remove Lost could turn out to be too much.

Okay, so Porygon with 1 TM or 1 Expert Belt OHKO's him. No real difference there. If they remove Lost, I will get to play my Trainers, and it will be game over. The only chance Dialga has is Deafen every turn and topdecking Specials. Which, by the way, they better have a Power Spray ready for Mode Crash.

Fifth, While I agree that Relicanth has an upper hand against the deck, I'm usually not the one playing the Stadium. One tool and you do 60, that's all you get against me (usually, might get 90 if I do decide to play a Stadium).
A good player will likely wait for you to get your Belts/Unown G's/Stadiums BEFORE they bring out the Relicanth. All they need is a Roseannes before they're doing tons of damage out of nowhere.

A good player will only play 1 belt, and only play a Stadium if they need to. I know that Roseanne's sets up Reli, but if you play to avoid it, then you can get around it.

Sixth, he hasn't stated anything remotely acknowledgeable as an argument for Dialga, so I won't get you guys started - there's no need.
See my response to your fourth statement.

It's hard to talk about the HGSS metagame/Donphan when you're all (not ya'll, notice) jumping back to past experiences (before DCE was out).
Very true. The official set isn't even out yet. We can't really start talking about the set's impact on the Meta until the set's actually released.

Agreed. But there will be a positive impact for Porygon, which is DCE, so it will without a doubt be better than before.

The last point is that you guys can think whatever you want, but HGSS has made it a lot better, and while it may not have done as well as SP decks in the past, a well built deck will be something to contend with.
I would love to see a list.

I'm testing a few decks out - if you have any questions feel free to PM me, but I won't give a full list out until I decide if I'm going to run it or not.

 

[jeffrey123]

I see Donphan doing DECENT AT BEST. T2 60 is just like Kingdra, but Donphan's in no way as good as Kingdra, and if you cannot OHKO an SP card, you will not take a prize until they're already 2-3 prizes ahead of you...

Luxchomp is going to win states, I can promise that. GG might just be too slow for the format now, but hey, we'll see...

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I thought the same exact thing. Donphan will maybe get a prize the first couple turns, but after 4 sp metals and a belt, followed by chomp heals, you're hitting your bench and we're teeing off on you. seems like a relevantly easy matchup to me...
donphan?

 

[mewbreon]

this is ridiculous. i PRAY every day before states that people plays decks like porygon... because i like making top 3 at states every year without trying very hard

 

[XYZ_Sniper]

I think I lost brain cells reading people defend Porygon Z.

 

[Ghost spread]

It's really how people play the deck. We all have our own opinions and expirences and my expirences have been really good with porygon Z.