Suggestion to Play! Pokemon re 2011 World Championship Decks: Print Tropical Beach!

[Cyrus]

So Worlds has come and gone, and we all know who the winners, runners-up, and other successful characters are.

However, one player (Ross Cawthon) had an extraordinarily unique, marketable, and cool deck. Most importantly, he played something that no other Worlds finalist has ever played in his deck: one of the promos received in his competitor package. Thus, it is very possible that for the first time, an actual Worlds promo card (Beach, Tidal Wave, Wind, etc) may be printed in World Championship deck form.

Since this card is playable, and since there could arise a situation where (however unlikely) it skews the balance of the metagame, I suggest that Play! Pokemon include one normal form, unstamped Tropical Beach per deck. Doing this would be:

1) Good for marketing. Worlds decks are normally attractive to only a limited segment of the population. However, if a Tropical Beach was included in each deck, then even competitive players may have incentive to purchase the Worlds deck. This would lead to more people buying Worlds decks, and the more people with Worlds decks, the greater the likelihood that future Worlds events will feature greater attendance.

2) Good for the player base. We don't want a situation to arise where a card with only a few hundred in existence is capable of giving the strongest, most well-connected players in the game an unfair edge over the competition.

3) Good for collectors. Although I'm sure some would be satisfied to receive a Ross deck featuring a Worlds edition of Tropical Beach, others are really hungry for the actual promo. Printing decks with an unstamped version of Tropical Beach would achieve this, yet distinguish the cards that our actual competitors received.


For those reasons, and perhaps many more, I think it will be in everybody's best interest if Play! Pokemon includes one regular-backed, unstamped Tropical Beach per Worlds deck.

(In before "send this to P!P before posting it on 'Gym" - I plan to copy/paste this suggestion in a couple hours.)

 

[King Piplup]

I totally like this idea!! [DEL]If they had to, they could always use different artwork to distinguish between the Worlds competitor ones and these ones. That way, the world competitors wouldn't be upset that they couldn't be seen as competitors necessarily by using the card.[/DEL]
Hehe, as pointed out, I missed the stamp on the original version...
We do NOT need good promos available to a few hundred people.


(now, if all those promos japan had that get dumped into our sets were good...Now that would be good for marketing as well :biggrin

 

[Makka#1]

they could always use different artwork to distinguish between the Worlds competitor ones and these ones.

the worlds edition already has stamped marks in the artwork that says "Worlds 11" or somethin like that.
Cyrus already suggested that this stamp would be removed from the worlds deck ones :wink:

on topic: i'd love to be able to both get my copies of the worlds decks AND the worlds promo that i can actually use

and hopefully they HAVE to print Ross' deck too, that deck is like pokémon history now

 

[King Piplup]

the worlds edition already has stamped marks in the artwork that says "Worlds 11" or somethin like that.
Cyrus already suggested that this stamp would be removed from the worlds deck ones :wink:

on topic: i'd love to be able to both get my copies of the worlds decks AND the worlds promo that i can actually use

and hopefully they HAVE to print Ross' deck too, that deck is like pokémon history now

:facepalm:

Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Cannot believe I missed that

 

[supertyranitar]

I definitely agree that it does need to be printed more. I could see them also doing what they did with one of the Worlds Promos from back in 2004, iirc, where they printed regular ones to be given out to people. I'd be fine with seeing them in the Worlds decks too, so long as they aren't exclusive.

 

[renfield89]

Would love to see something like this happen. I would definitely buy AT LEAST one copy of a World's deck if it included an unstamped and tournament legal Tropical Beach.

 

[losjackal]

The logical problem I see is, the same argument can be made for any exclusive promo that is semi-playable.
In other words, exclusive promos thus far are acceptable because they weren't worth their weight in cardboard for tournament play?

The fact that Ross made is to #2 with it in his deck is just an excuse to include it in the Worlds reprint deck.
Besides, as a Stadium, arguably both players benefit from having it in play.....so while it may gave Ross an advantage over someone in grinders who doesn't have one, Ross having it doesn't give him an unfair advantage of whomever his opponent is in every game he plays.

I recognize the value of the card, and I traded/bought some to have more than one. But I also know that as soon as the next generally playable stadium gets released in a set, this argument will lose further merit.

(I'm sorry to rain on the parade instead of jumping on the bandwagon, I'm just calling it the way I see it. I welcome people to point out how I may be wrong...)

P.S. Putting a valuable legal card like this in a Worlds reprint deck will be a "failure" in my opinion. Sure, Pokemon Company will be happy since they can sell more Worlds reprint decks wholesale, but it's foolish to think it won't be abused as well. Look at Troll and Toad's inventory of Pokemon Collector from the HS Trainer kits. It's at 448 right now....it was over 1500 a few weeks ago. And over 3800 Pokemon Communication? Clearly they opened up their own inventory to break it apart and piece it out.

 

[untitled]

^Well yeah that's why they were acceptable, it's only fair if all the players get equal access to the cards. Because right now those things are selling for well over 100 dollars. If you're going to give people exclusive access to cards then give it to the people who 0-7 consistently, not the group of people who are already considered the best in the world without exclusive cards.

And being a Stadium balances it a little, but still a person will only run it if it benefits them more than their opponent. And they'll only play it at a point in the game where that will happen. If stadiums truly gave equal benefits to both players, they wouldn't see any play.

 

[Prime]

I agree with losjackel. Before this supposedly playable card was seen, everyone was mostly fine with the Worlds promo being only attainable through Worlds. Just because players feel this card is better, they automatically want easier access to it?

Nah. It'd lose all its value. Nobody would pay more, minus the collectors, for the stamp.

My only suggestion would be to make it a City Championship prize for coming in first (along with the medal). That would put 200+ more copies in the market, while putting 1 in each championship deck (ross) would puts countless thousands in the market.

The card should be worth something because these people have to earn their invite to Worlds to obtain it.

The scenario has never been different. There have been players that have played Victory Medals in their decks. There have been players that played really rare cards like Time-Space Distortion in their deck. Just because a card could be good and may not be easy peazy for players to obtain doesn't mean that its messed up.

edit: Honestly, I think the main reason you're (Cyrus) asking for it is because you failed to grind into Worlds this year. If you had made it, and gotten a copy, I doubt you would have said anything. Not trying to be mean, but that is how I see it. I've never even won a tournament so I'm not trying to speak poor of you, just speak my opinion.

 

[Cyrus]

The logical problem I see is, the same argument can be made for any exclusive promo that is semi-playable.
In other words, exclusive promos thus far are acceptable because they weren't worth their weight in cardboard for tournament play?

The fact that Ross made is to #2 with it in his deck is just an excuse to include it in the Worlds reprint deck.
Besides, as a Stadium, arguably both players benefit from having it in play.....so while it may gave Ross an advantage over someone in grinders who doesn't have one, Ross having it doesn't give him an unfair advantage of whomever his opponent is in every game he plays.

I recognize the value of the card, and I traded/bought some to have more than one. But I also know that as soon as the next generally playable stadium gets released in a set, this argument will lose further merit.

(I'm sorry to rain on the parade instead of jumping on the bandwagon, I'm just calling it the way I see it. I welcome people to point out how I may be wrong...)

P.S. Putting a valuable legal card like this in a Worlds reprint deck will be a "failure" in my opinion. Sure, Pokemon Company will be happy since they can sell more Worlds reprint decks wholesale, but it's foolish to think it won't be abused as well. Look at Troll and Toad's inventory of Pokemon Collector from the HS Trainer kits. It's at 448 right now....it was over 1500 a few weeks ago. And over 3800 Pokemon Communication? Clearly they opened up their own inventory to break it apart and piece it out.

You aren't raining on anyone's parade, but you are offering a challenge that's definitely worthwhile to answer.

RE the stadium's merits: anyone who plays the game semi-competitively or better knows that when a card grants two players an equal effect (Double Gust, Lucky Stadium, Tropical Beach), the player who actually plays the card receives the inherent advantage, since he/she is in charge of playing it at the opportune moment.

RE the "not worth their weight in cardboard" argument: perhaps it would have been optimal for someone to push for this when Tropical Wind and Tropical Tidal Wave came out - I won't deny that. However, P!P's choice of promos thus far has been stellar, to the point where they know they won't be issuing an automatic "four-of" card (Shuckle comes close, but is not anywhere near that bad). My problem with this card is that, unlike Shuckle and others, very few exist. This creates an even bigger problem in the American metagame, where only a few hundred legal editions (English cards) exist.

As for the slippery slope argument you offer, all my suggestion boils down to is reprinting a promo card in another promotional medium. It's STILL a promo, and a Worlds promo at that - just featured in a different fashion.

Finally, my point about Ross's deck isn't to excuse the idea: I even welcome the possibility that his deck won't get printed (I honestly doubt it will, since he suffered this same "complexity" issue in 2005). My ultimate purpose in referencing Ross is that his second place performance underscores just how playable this card is, as well as how bad it would be if a "BDIF" rolls around that abuses Tropical Beach...And only twenty people in the U.S. can use it.


P.S. I appreciate losjackal's alternative take on the issue, and while I may disagree with his conclusions, they were well-articulated and have logical validity... But Prime's "you're just bitter" is a disgustingly weak, shallow attempt to shoot down my argument.

Did you know that I actually did trade for this card, and currently own two copies of it? Did you know that I could borrow the full play-set without much trouble at all? I have no problem whatsoever getting my play-set for the next tournament...But I'm sure 99% of other players will, which is why I made this post.

Next time, think a little more about what you're saying, and realize that - lo and behold - someone other than yourself is a sportsman, and wants to make an honest sportsman's attempt to create a level playing field.

 

[shmup-o]

Finally, my point about Ross's deck isn't to excuse the idea: I even welcome the possibility that his deck won't get printed (I honestly doubt it will, since he suffered this same "complexity" issue in 2005). My ultimate purpose in referencing Ross is that his second place performance underscores just how playable this card is, as well as how bad it would be if a "BDIF" rolls around that abuses Tropical Beach...And only twenty people in the U.S. can use it.

Truth. Magic Type 1 Power 9 anyone?

 

[ExoByte]

The fact that Ross made is to #2 with it in his deck is just an excuse to include it in the Worlds reprint deck.
Besides, as a Stadium, arguably both players benefit from having it in play.....so while it may gave Ross an advantage over someone in grinders who doesn't have one, Ross having it doesn't give him an unfair advantage of whomever his opponent is in every game he plays.

1) Tropical Beach was not legal in the LCQ
2) Ross didn't play in the LCQ

 

[losjackal]

^^ Agreed, ExoByte. I used the example of "someone in grinders" to denote a player who attended Worlds for the LCQ and failed, so didn't receive said Promo....and IIRC, even if they did grind in, [DEL]they didn't receive a welcome bag containing the promo like the invitees?[/DEL] (edit: I believe I'm wrong about this)

Meaning, any purported advantage would be for the Worlds tourney itself, and everything going forward.

 

[SuperWooper]

Finally, my point about Ross's deck isn't to excuse the idea: I even welcome the possibility that his deck won't get printed (I honestly doubt it will, since he suffered this same "complexity" issue in 2005).

The Truth will be released.

 

[Cyrus]

Another point on collector's value: compare a stamped Tropical Wind 2004 to an unstamped Tropical Wind 2004 - they're usually $10-$20 apart. So just because Tropical Beach may receive a mass print run doesn't mean that it tanks the value of a stamped card.

 

[Rainbowgym]

What about giving out one worlds promo without the stamp EACH YEAR as the first promo to earn at league?

2004 we got a "normal" blackstar version of the Worlds promo and somehow never again.
For collectors those Worlds promos are horrible (read so hard to get) so a non-stamped version would fill a gap for sure.

 

[Porii Sames]

I'm missing where ppl are coming from saying that its value will decrease...

...That just flat out doesn't make sense. If you buy worlds promo cards (with the exception of Liam), you're using the for collecting purposes 9 times out of 10. If I'm a collector, and these are printed, I'm gonna want the stamped ones. Did Luxray X's value go down because it was printed in Worlds decks? No, if anything it went up, because it won worlds.

 

[PkB_]

I don't get how people even think this is good to begin with...

Just play cleffa, which in the end will probably net you more cards or more consistency.

 

[K2theAblaM]

The logical problem I see is, the same argument can be made for any exclusive promo that is semi-playable.
In other words, exclusive promos thus far are acceptable because they weren't worth their weight in cardboard for tournament play?

The fact that Ross made is to #2 with it in his deck is just an excuse to include it in the Worlds reprint deck.
Besides, as a Stadium, arguably both players benefit from having it in play.....so while it may gave Ross an advantage over someone in grinders who doesn't have one, Ross having it doesn't give him an unfair advantage of whomever his opponent is in every game he plays.

I recognize the value of the card, and I traded/bought some to have more than one. But I also know that as soon as the next generally playable stadium gets released in a set, this argument will lose further merit.

(I'm sorry to rain on the parade instead of jumping on the bandwagon, I'm just calling it the way I see it. I welcome people to point out how I may be wrong...)

P.S. Putting a valuable legal card like this in a Worlds reprint deck will be a "failure" in my opinion. Sure, Pokemon Company will be happy since they can sell more Worlds reprint decks wholesale, but it's foolish to think it won't be abused as well. Look at Troll and Toad's inventory of Pokemon Collector from the HS Trainer kits. It's at 448 right now....it was over 1500 a few weeks ago. And over 3800 Pokemon Communication? Clearly they opened up their own inventory to break it apart and piece it out.

Still don't get your point. You don't want it to be printed because online retailers are going to sell them? To me, it seams like you traded/bought these cards for a hefty price and don't want everyone else in the world to have the same card that you do, since it would actually devalue the "want" value of your stamped cards.

I actually think it's GREAT that Pokemon collector and pokemon communication was released in that trainer kit, allowing highly playable cards to reach the masses without aftermarket price gouging. That's the same approach the community takes when it looks at highly playable promos like Broken time space, DCE and Uxie.

 

[Cyrus]

Re Porii: Luxray GL Lv.X's value was based on a competitive bubble: once it became unplayable, it burst and tanked.

I think where people are coming from is "you'll be printing more versions of the card, therefore making its value decrease." To an extent, this is actually true: the more a card proliferates, the less expensive it becomes on the secondary market for playing purposes. However, just because the demand from the playing community decreases doesn't mean that its value as a collectible tanks: Celebi ex POP 2, for instance, got hit a bit by there being a holographic version, but it was far from undesirable despite this.

The real cost-benefit analysis P!P has to do here is compare the potentially nerfed collectible value of Tropical Beach to the market value gained by making a very playable card available in a non-exclusive form ( as well as other unforeseen consequences).

RE Rainbowgym: that's a fantastic alternative, and a great long-term solution that should definitely get the thumbs up. While I'm sure league seasons are set for the next few months (thus making this suggestion valid), an August 2012 "Tropical Tag Team" available to the masses sounds just perfect. 8)