I've also found a 2-2 of line of ultra ball/plasma ball to be unnecessary since the deck is tight enough as it is and late game I find myself drawing into one or two useless ultra/plasma ball since I have already drawn into most/all of my pokemon. I am probably going to take out one and replace it with another Skyla or something else. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
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TDK-Help on perfecting my list for worlds
- Thread starter Joltic
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Pokepower22
New Member
Lugia needs too much energy and has a bad weakness in the mirror compared to Absol which can be powered up in one turn and take the KO on pokémon needing to be KO'd ASAP, and not being effected by weakness. Ive won many mirrors due to Lugia's weakness.I like Lugia over Absol. Lugia wins me games.
Lugia needs too much energy and has a bad weakness in the mirror compared to Absol which can be powered up in one turn and take the KO on pokémon needing to be KO'd ASAP, and not being effected by weakness. Ive won many mirrors due to Lugia's weakness.
Have you ever heard of scramble switch? It works wonders. The weakness is only bad against eel, in which you DON't play it, and Thundurus, which can easily be avoided. The donkability and pressure of Lugia along with the surprise 3 prize card sweep makes Lugia valuable. Not underating Absol, but I love me some Lugia.
Pokepower22
New Member
Thundy is really hard to avoid in the mirror though since the usual amount is 3. i will admit to Lugia being useful if you are needing the ability to take 2 Prizes of Kyurems. There is also Scramble Switch but to be honest in over 100+ test matches ive pulled off a surprise Lugia with Scramble switch only once.Have you ever heard of scramble switch? It works wonders. The weakness is only bad against eel, in which you DON't play it, and Thundurus, which can easily be avoided. The donkability and pressure of Lugia along with the surprise 3 prize card sweep makes Lugia valuable. Not underrating Absol, but I love me some Lugia.
Thundy is really hard to avoid in the mirror though since the usual amount is 3. i will admit to Lugia being useful if you are needing the ability to take 2 Prizes of Kyurems. There is also Scramble Switch but to be honest in over 100+ test matches ive pulled off a surprise Lugia with Scramble switch only once.
Weird. In about 20 games I have had one t1 with lugia and multiple times almost getting t1. You really just have to know how to play Lugia. It also depends on your playstyle.
Here are two lists, one which is more consistent and the other which is more teched out:
List A-more consistent
Pokemon:
4 Deoxys EX
3 Thunderus EX
3 kyurem (PLF)
T/ S/S:
1 computer search
4 Catcher
4 Colress machine
4 Hypnotixic laser
2 Float stone
2 Plasma ball
2 Ultra ball
2 Switch
1 Max potion
2 Virbank
4 N
4 Juniper
3 Colress
3 Skyla
Energy:
4 Plasma
4 Prism
4 Blend (WLFM)
List B-teched out
Pokemon:
4 Deoxys EX
3 Thunderus EX
3 kyurem (PLF)
1 Absol
1 Keldeo EX
T/ S/S:
1 computer search
4 Catcher
4 Colress machine
4 Hypnotixic laser
2 Float stone
2 Plasma ball
1 Ultra ball
2 Switch
1 Max potion
2 Virbank
4 N
4 Juniper
3 Colress
2 Skyla
Energy:
4 Plasma
4 Prism
4 Blend (WLFM)
Even though there are very little changes, list A has not got Absol or keldeo in but has one extra Skyla included and one extra ultra ball. This list aims to get the pokemon you want out first and set them up very quickly, quicker than list B. List B aims to make the mirror match (and other match ups) slightly easier by using Absol to do mass amounts of damage against decks that rely on a full bench. This list also trys to make Hypnotixic laser and catchers have minimal effect by using keldeo. This list is slightly less consistent but has its advantages.
Please help me with which is the best list to use.
Thanks, Jordan
List A-more consistent
Pokemon:
4 Deoxys EX
3 Thunderus EX
3 kyurem (PLF)
T/ S/S:
1 computer search
4 Catcher
4 Colress machine
4 Hypnotixic laser
2 Float stone
2 Plasma ball
2 Ultra ball
2 Switch
1 Max potion
2 Virbank
4 N
4 Juniper
3 Colress
3 Skyla
Energy:
4 Plasma
4 Prism
4 Blend (WLFM)
List B-teched out
Pokemon:
4 Deoxys EX
3 Thunderus EX
3 kyurem (PLF)
1 Absol
1 Keldeo EX
T/ S/S:
1 computer search
4 Catcher
4 Colress machine
4 Hypnotixic laser
2 Float stone
2 Plasma ball
1 Ultra ball
2 Switch
1 Max potion
2 Virbank
4 N
4 Juniper
3 Colress
2 Skyla
Energy:
4 Plasma
4 Prism
4 Blend (WLFM)
Even though there are very little changes, list A has not got Absol or keldeo in but has one extra Skyla included and one extra ultra ball. This list aims to get the pokemon you want out first and set them up very quickly, quicker than list B. List B aims to make the mirror match (and other match ups) slightly easier by using Absol to do mass amounts of damage against decks that rely on a full bench. This list also trys to make Hypnotixic laser and catchers have minimal effect by using keldeo. This list is slightly less consistent but has its advantages.
Please help me with which is the best list to use.
Thanks, Jordan
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TuxedoBlack
New Member
Several of the players I playtest with have built, tested and ran their respective versions of TDK at the U.S. Nationals Championship tournament this past weekend. All 5 made the top cut.
One of the key decisions, I believe, one needs to decide is "how much" you want to utilize Lugia EX, if at all. From my own experience in playing my version of the deck, I have found it to be quite useful and game changing. My playtesting Poké pals are split between running either 1 or 2 Lugia EXs. For those players running 2 Lugia EXs, those are an integral part of their game strategy - by deliberately setting up and targeting opponents' EXs and taking 3 prizes at a time. On the other hand, Lugia EX is considered to be ninja-like and can be used at opportunistic moments to even KO opponents' non-EX Poké for 2 prizes.
Another fantastic Team Plasma Poké is Absol. After using it very successfully in my Darkrai deck, I quickly made room for it in my TDK v1.0 deck. It is an amazing attacker (can even 1HKO a 180 HP opponent's Poké in certain situations), especially in a mirror match; so much so, I've already added a second Absol to my deck, post-U.S. Nats Championship tournament. IMHO, it is that good and deserves an extra slot in the deck.
Other observations/comments from my recent U.S. Nats Championship tournament experience:
One of the key decisions, I believe, one needs to decide is "how much" you want to utilize Lugia EX, if at all. From my own experience in playing my version of the deck, I have found it to be quite useful and game changing. My playtesting Poké pals are split between running either 1 or 2 Lugia EXs. For those players running 2 Lugia EXs, those are an integral part of their game strategy - by deliberately setting up and targeting opponents' EXs and taking 3 prizes at a time. On the other hand, Lugia EX is considered to be ninja-like and can be used at opportunistic moments to even KO opponents' non-EX Poké for 2 prizes.
Another fantastic Team Plasma Poké is Absol. After using it very successfully in my Darkrai deck, I quickly made room for it in my TDK v1.0 deck. It is an amazing attacker (can even 1HKO a 180 HP opponent's Poké in certain situations), especially in a mirror match; so much so, I've already added a second Absol to my deck, post-U.S. Nats Championship tournament. IMHO, it is that good and deserves an extra slot in the deck.
Other observations/comments from my recent U.S. Nats Championship tournament experience:
- Most TDK players I know run either Scramble Switch or Life Dew as their chosen Ace Spec. Both cards can definitely alter a game in certain situations. I personally run Scramble Switch and would not replace it at this point with any other card.
- Thundurus EX was "demoted" (lol) to "2nd string" in my deck; i.e., Kyurem and Absol are my usual main attackers. Thundurus EX has been regulated to more of a "support" role. Hence, I only run 2 in my deck.
- Keldeo EX was found to be very, very useful to get either severely wounded and/or asleep/paralyzed active Poké back to the bench. Also keep in mind that 2 Gothitelle-Accelgor decks made it to the top 4 at Nats and most (perhaps all?) players run Ht Lasers. Besides, it's fun to KO a unsuspecting Landorus EX with a Scrambled Switch'd Keldeo EX.
- Your B list has only a few noted techs; at least 1 other Poké worthy of consideration includes Lugia EX.
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I'm not too sure about Lugia. I agree that it can be really good in some situations but in my opinion it's a bit too clunky. Even though it can get you lots of prizes easily, I think that's its just too slow for the current format. Since all of your pokemon can use plasma energy, its a bit of a waste attaching most of them to Lugia. Focusing all your plasma energy attachments on Lugia can be a bad idea because it makes Lugia awfully vulnerable to catcher and can effect powering up other pokemon. Lots of people I know have said "if you run Lugia, run 1 or 2 DCEs". This can solve the lack of energy problem but takes up more valuable space in the deck, DCEs can't really be used well on too many pokemon, which makes them a 'wasted card' and can be replaced by something better.
TuxedoBlack
New Member
Understood. Running Lugia EX definitely affects your playstyle and game strategy. I run only 1 Lugia EX and 2 DCE in my Plasma Box deck; but the key is, IMHO, is also running Scramble Switch in my deck too. Without a doubt, this Trainer is important in determining if/when I will make use of my Lugia EX. Imagine dropping a Lugia EX from hand, Scramble Switch'ing energy onto it, attached and/or Colress Machine energy on it and KO'ing an opponent's wounded EX. In doing so, I just cut the game in half. Definite game advantages in executing this tactic when I can. On the other hand, the few times I've actually had to start with it has been very rare - fortunately.
Another advantage I've had is when playing an opponent running "low" HP basic Poké. Lugia EX can be used effectively early game too to gain some extra prizes. In these situations, I had a great start and had the "right" cards to Plasma Gale t2, and sometimes even t3.
What other techs have you considered? Lugia EX is just one of several; there are some others I think are quite clever... Consider the mirror match...
Another advantage I've had is when playing an opponent running "low" HP basic Poké. Lugia EX can be used effectively early game too to gain some extra prizes. In these situations, I had a great start and had the "right" cards to Plasma Gale t2, and sometimes even t3.
What other techs have you considered? Lugia EX is just one of several; there are some others I think are quite clever... Consider the mirror match...
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I did consider tornadus EX (PLF) after my poor run at nats as I had lots of dead hands and I thought that tornadus could give me extra draw support. But when I tested with it, it proved a big fail. It was just a very easy KO by their opposing Thunderus and was too slow since the only times I got him out was when I had a good hand (lol). Maybe running two would help since I still got a few dead hands, but that's ruins the consistency of the deck.
As a good trainer I have heard that Bicycle could be a good since it can act as alternative to Skyla by allowing you to draw though your deck more often since its only a trainer. This could work very well if you N each other to one, then play bicycle. This will give your opponent 2 cards in their hand (including their draw at the start of their turn) when you will have five, and knowing how an extra three cards can make a huge difference I think this is defiantly a card to consider.
As a good trainer I have heard that Bicycle could be a good since it can act as alternative to Skyla by allowing you to draw though your deck more often since its only a trainer. This could work very well if you N each other to one, then play bicycle. This will give your opponent 2 cards in their hand (including their draw at the start of their turn) when you will have five, and knowing how an extra three cards can make a huge difference I think this is defiantly a card to consider.
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@the above discussion:
Lugia EX feels a little awkward, since it requires you to actively set it up and dedicate some deck space to it. I mostly dislike the fact that DCE does not work well together with most of the other Plasma Pokemon (I guess Absol's 2nd attack counts...) and the deck really needs to grab its colored Energy early and often in the game.
I prefer the consistency that Computer Search or Dowsing Machine bring to the deck, therefore I'd rarely consider to play Scramble Switch + DCEs + Lugia EX, which is basically the mandatory Lugia package. Smashing in with Lugia EX can definitely be game-changing, but it feels like you just flat out lose some games because of the fact that these cards are in your deck as well. It's a trade-off and comes down to preference. I'd never run 2 Lugia EX, mostly because you can only play 1 Scramble Switch in the deck and that card is the only way to make the card really work.
Considering the OP's lists, I'll say it looks very solid. I think I'd prefer the 4th Kyurem (or the 2nd Absol) over the 4th Colress Machine. You're gonna draw 1 of those Plasma Energies at some point, making the 4th Colress Machine a dead card in long games, However, using non-EX attackers is an extremely good idea in long games and I would up the odds for that happening as much as possible. I also like having the extra Basic in the deck. Opening hands with more than 1 Basic to choose from are usually a good thing.
I'm not too sure about the Max Potion, but I guess as a 1-of it can be a nice Skyla target. I haven't seen it in action enough to say much about it. A 1-of Tool Scrapper could also be nice to pitch all of the Float Stones in the format...floating around, I guess.
I would always play the single Keldeo EX, it's just very useful in many situations. However, if you do, maybe you want the 2nd Ultra Ball over the 2nd Plasma Ball to find it? Or maybe playing 2 of both Balls is correct in that case..I'm not actually sure.
Lugia EX feels a little awkward, since it requires you to actively set it up and dedicate some deck space to it. I mostly dislike the fact that DCE does not work well together with most of the other Plasma Pokemon (I guess Absol's 2nd attack counts...) and the deck really needs to grab its colored Energy early and often in the game.
I prefer the consistency that Computer Search or Dowsing Machine bring to the deck, therefore I'd rarely consider to play Scramble Switch + DCEs + Lugia EX, which is basically the mandatory Lugia package. Smashing in with Lugia EX can definitely be game-changing, but it feels like you just flat out lose some games because of the fact that these cards are in your deck as well. It's a trade-off and comes down to preference. I'd never run 2 Lugia EX, mostly because you can only play 1 Scramble Switch in the deck and that card is the only way to make the card really work.
Considering the OP's lists, I'll say it looks very solid. I think I'd prefer the 4th Kyurem (or the 2nd Absol) over the 4th Colress Machine. You're gonna draw 1 of those Plasma Energies at some point, making the 4th Colress Machine a dead card in long games, However, using non-EX attackers is an extremely good idea in long games and I would up the odds for that happening as much as possible. I also like having the extra Basic in the deck. Opening hands with more than 1 Basic to choose from are usually a good thing.
I'm not too sure about the Max Potion, but I guess as a 1-of it can be a nice Skyla target. I haven't seen it in action enough to say much about it. A 1-of Tool Scrapper could also be nice to pitch all of the Float Stones in the format...floating around, I guess.
I would always play the single Keldeo EX, it's just very useful in many situations. However, if you do, maybe you want the 2nd Ultra Ball over the 2nd Plasma Ball to find it? Or maybe playing 2 of both Balls is correct in that case..I'm not actually sure.
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Pokepower22
New Member
Lots of good stuff in this to try out. I would however try out Life Dew - over 1/5 games ive won because of it.@the above discussion:
Lugia EX feels a little awkward, since it requires you to actively set it up and dedicate some deck space to it. I mostly dislike the fact that DCE does not work well together with most of the other Plasma Pokemon (I guess Absol's 2nd attack counts...) and the deck really needs to grab its colored Energy early and often in the game.
I prefer the consistency that Computer Search or Dowsing Machine bring to the deck, therefore I'd rarely consider to play Scramble Switch + DCEs + Lugia EX, which is basically the mandatory Lugia package. Smashing in with Lugia EX can definitely be game-changing, but it feels like you just flat out lose some games because of the fact that these cards are in your deck as well. It's a trade-off and comes down to preference. I'd never run 2 Lugia EX, mostly because you can only play 1 Scramble Switch in the deck and that card is the only way to make the card really work.
Considering the OP's lists, I'll say it looks very solid. I think I'd prefer the 4th Kyurem (or the 2nd Absol) over the 4th Colress Machine. You're gonna draw 1 of those Plasma Energies at some point, making the 4th Colress Machine a dead card in long games, However, using non-EX attackers is an extremely good idea in long games and I would up the odds for that happening as much as possible. I also like having the extra Basic in the deck. Opening hands with more than 1 Basic to choose from are usually a good thing.
I'm not too sure about the Max Potion, but I guess as a 1-of it can be a nice Skyla target. I haven't seen it in action enough to say much about it. A 1-of Tool Scrapper could also be nice to pitch all of the Float Stones in the format...floating around, I guess.
I would always play the single Keldeo EX, it's just very useful in many situations. However, if you do, maybe you want the 2nd Ultra Ball over the 2nd Plasma Ball to find it? Or maybe playing 2 of both Balls is correct in that case..I'm not actually sure.
TuxedoBlack
New Member
I too am not a fan of Tornadus EX (PF); I just see it as a big target for my opponent's Thundurus EX. On the other hand, a Poké pal did make top cut at Nats running a deck based upon Tornadus EX (PF)... I need to find out more details behind that.I did consider tornadus EX (PLF) after my poor run at nats as I had lots of dead hands and I thought that tornadus could give me extra draw support. But when I tested with it, it proved a big fail. It was just a very easy KO by their opposing Thunderus and was too slow since the only times I got him out was when I had a good hand (lol). Maybe running two would help since I still got a few dead hands, but that's ruins the consistency of the deck.
I usually run 2-3 Skyla and 2 Bicycle in my tournament decks. There are times when I have only a Skyla in hand and I can use that to get a Bicycle to draw cards. The Skyla - Bicycle combo works very well for me. My deck's card draw engine consists of the following:As a good trainer I have heard that Bicycle could be a good since it can act as alternative to Skyla...
- 2x Bicycle. Provides needed card draw support at key times during game.
- 3x Colress. Allows me to possibly draw "lots" of cards and/or reshuffle the other cards (I don't need at the time... lol) back into my deck.
- 4x N. Used primarily in a defensive manner. I will tend to N my opponent after he/she plays a Colress (and gets lots of cards) or PJ.
- 3x PJ. Still a great draw card Supporter, but I find I need fewer given my card draw Supporter/Item mix.
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The main reason I play four Colress machine is to up the probability of getting it in your opening hand. This is for kyurem, since you play three you will find yourself opening with it a lot, and without a Colress machine in your opening hand you won't be able to pull of a T1 frost spear.
I have also taken out max potion and have replaced it with a tool scrapper. Tool scrapper is a great card against keldeo/float stone, with most people playing two float stones and no way of getting them back, this card is a nice addition to the deck. Especially since life dew is on the rise in TDK decks, tool scrapper can be a really devastating card.
I have also taken out max potion and have replaced it with a tool scrapper. Tool scrapper is a great card against keldeo/float stone, with most people playing two float stones and no way of getting them back, this card is a nice addition to the deck. Especially since life dew is on the rise in TDK decks, tool scrapper can be a really devastating card.
ArcticPhoenix46
New Member
What about scramble switching to lugia and running colress machines tho
Pokepower22
New Member
Goth really isnt that bad. If you go first and KO 1st turn,which happens alot, you usually win.Any idea how to improve the gothitelle matchup ?
Even with two Keldeo it seems to not be enough...
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