Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

TGW and Absol - Their Effect on OP

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PokeDaddy

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We are about half way thru the Pokémon US CCs and there is quite a discussion going on about TGW and Absol. Both cards are very unique disruption cards but are they too disruptive thus being "broken"? These two cards destroy most decks that require any set up. There are cards and combinations that are unplayable. What I believe is probably the broken part of these cards is that they are taking skill out of the game and replacing it with too much luck.

I propose that that these two cards be reviewed by PUI to determine if they are detrimental to the game.

If you are going to post, "deal with it" or other great inputs, I will ask that this post be locked.

Please discuss.

(PS: I love playing the cards/I hate playing the cards.)

BRING SKILL BACK INTO PLAY
 
The queens are detrimental to chess. Just think about how many final moves (checkmates) are made with that piece! Chess has survived centuries. Pokemon will be fine.
 
I personally love disruption. I think you can tell if a deck is good if it can withstand disruption cards.

You could also say that rush cards, that deal a lot of damage fast can disrupt decks that require set-up.

Disruption cards require a lot more skill to use than "coin-flip" cards. If you have a small hand, I probably won't use Wager. If you have a large hand, I probably wouldn't bother with Absol. Using the 2 cards together is skill.

If you ask me, I say disruption brings some skill to the game. Decks that rely on speedy starts or lucky coin flips, those are the non-skill decks. They just require the player to play the deck without thinking, since there are very few options. But thinking "Should I use the wager now?" or "should I play my celio's to set-up my attacker or should I get absol to thwart his start?" or "should I retreat my absol?" There are so many more options with these decks, and I love it~!
 
apples and oranges.
The queen takes a while to develop before it can be used at full power.
All chess players are playing with the same "deck" and that deck is in the same "order" for each player.


I agree that Absol has become as pervasive as the old Genesis Sneasel was, and it can fit into any deck with just 4 slots. 8 if you also include TGW or TGM, but those can also fit into almost any deck on their own.

It's a strange format when Prof Birch suddenly becomes an important card!
I don't know if it's too early to talk about banning yet, but it is a darn annoying card!
 
Not every deck can really carry Absol and TGW IMHO ... but it's gotten to the point where you have to be able to either play them yourself or know for SURE that your deck can take facing them. Luck plays a huge part in both cards. If you get a luck discard with Absol or shuffle in a key card with TGW it can pretty much end the game right there.
 
I have survived the first part of the Cities, and would agree that Absol is a really powerful card.

It's ability to minimize a hand size, when combined with cards like Galactic's Wager or Galactic's Mars are really quite cool.

Disruption has ALWAYS had a place in this game, except for the brief period in which Admin was not around (we call that last year). For a newer player not used to the old and true disruption days, Galactic's Wager seems pretty broken, as it destroys your hand, and then combines with Absol to destroy it more. And we don't even have the fun broken Dark Pokemon out yet (Darkrai) that will turn EVERYONE to the DARK SIDE.

Once again, it requires deckbuilders to consider other options when making their decks, and suddenly ugly cards like Prof Birch become attractive again. The game is developing.

Look around. I don't think Absol is dominating all around the country, but it is certainly having an effect no matter where it turns up. It is a minor to median power card that still has yet to have someone break it's true power.

My vote is simple. Keep the cards in the format. They are not as broken as Sneasel back in the day, and the winner of the TGW actually ends up with a nice card advantage. The loser, well, has some work to do to recover.

My favorite move in Pokemon HISTORY was the Rocket's Admin in Sudden Death at the Nats top cut in the Masters Division. The player knew he was in trouble, so snaked his opponent down to 1 card to equalize the pain. COOL MOVE!

There, a 5 paragraph opinion when it required one line.

The game is complex. That is what makes it good.

Vince
 
These cards require the players to adapt to a new environment and a new deck style.

Much like last season where you had to play 3-4 windstorm if you were playing a powers deck, players might have to play some cards they might not find optimal in most match ups, but they will be glad they have them against the disruption cards.

The game is changing again. To continue to want things to be like the used to be is to set yourself up to lose.
 
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IMO, none of those cards in themselves are that devastating to even worry about to counter.
But when combo together it is quit powerful to the likes we have not seen that destructiveness in a combo against the player’s hand.

But the metagame is moving towards, you either play it or tech against it. If your deck doesn't do either, your pretty much dead in the water. Reminds me of PIGEOT (quick search)!

Another thing to remember, if I am right, the format is different in Japan. So when TPC makes a card they can bounce it off a wider selection of cards to see how balanced it is. I think they still have VS seeker in their format.

I think it is easier to tech against then other cards that have been a pain in the side for formats: slowking, sneseal or PIGEOT.
 
TGW and Absol are cards that are based on luck just like any coin flipping cards. All they require is luck. There is NO skill involved. This coming from my son that has made every single Worlds. TGW is luck because I use the RPS cards and dont even look at them before I flip one out on the table. You should see my opponent's that arent used to playing against me. They think about what they should shoot R,P, or S then I randomly flip one of my cards without looking. Too many games are being won now on pure random luck because of this card

With Absol if you hit the right discards then good but if not then watch out because setup decks will get setup.

And btw I use these cards myself so Im not really hating on these cards, just being honest.
 
PokeDaddy said:
We are about half way thru the Pokémon US CCs and there is quite a discussion going on about TGW and Absol. Both cards are very unique disruption cards but are they too disruptive thus being "broken"? These two cards destroy most decks that require any set up. There are cards and combinations that are unplayable. What I believe is probably the broken part of these cards is that they are taking skill out of the game and replacing it with too much luck.

I propose that that these two cards be reviewed by PUI to determine if they are detrimental to the game.

If you are going to post, "deal with it" or other great inputs, I will ask that this post be locked.

Please discuss.

(PS: I love playing the cards/I hate playing the cards.)

BRING SKILL BACK INTO PLAY
Click to expand...

I dont have a problem with Absol as much as I do with Wager. I think both are way too powerful, but I think Wager is just too luck based for the game. I was playing RPS with my hands, but after going a bit above 50% during BRs with Wager and having only winning like 14% wagers during cities I switch to cards during this last and that still didnt help. Most of my losses in Cities are directly because I didnt win a wager multiple times in 1 game. I want to make a post about this but I was sure how to begin really. I am less concerned with Absol tho. I can only give 1 of my losses to it. Where my draw was horrible and I ended up only drawing candies and then to have all 4 of them discarded.

I do see this as a huge problem tho. I like the cards, but it takes the fun out of the game when the game is based on who is better at RPS rather than who is a better player.

JMO,
Drew
 
Last format needed disruption so bad, now we got loads of it. It's good for the game. There are so many different kinds of decks you can make right now. Disruption, Speed, Setup, mix.

Wager helped the game so much. Sure, it can ruin your day, but if your deck is consistent and build good enough, you can recover from a lost Wager without much trouble.

Absol is more a bit of a problem, but it's not broken, just uber good. Again, a good deck/list can survive it.
 
TGW/Absol can't even begin to compare to cards like pow! or admin in terms of disruption.

We had BF in a dark/colorless- heavy power/body format, and at the same time we had pow! and admin (the greatest, most strategic card ever made IMO).

Absol's a pest, but there are easy counters. We've found a lot of counters that do well.

TGW is just a crapshoot. It's good if it hits, but it's nothing like admin. At the most recent city I went to, I remember Bianchi saying he only played RPS once. Did I mention he got to the finals?

It's a metagame thing. Absol is not the ender of this game. He's great, sleek, disruptive, and challenging. He's everything this game needs. He is NOT broken though.

Admin/pow in Mynx was broken. The deck was almost unbeatable in an untimed match because of those cards.
 
JohnnyBlaze said:
TGW and Absol are cards that are based on luck just like any coin flipping cards. All they require is luck. There is NO skill involved. This coming from my son that has made every single Worlds. TGW is luck because I use the RPS cards and dont even look at them before I flip one out on the table. You should see my opponent's that arent used to playing against me. They think about what they should shoot R,P, or S then I randomly flip one of my cards without looking. Too many games are being won now on pure random luck because of this card

With Absol if you hit the right discards then good but if not then watch out because setup decks will get setup.

And btw I use these cards myself so Im not really hating on these cards, just being honest.
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Johnny -

Same from my son - a 2-time Worlds Competitor. Just too luck based.

He doesn't see the "skill" in getting wagered to 3, Absol'd to 1 card and now every thing is based on what you top deck. There is no skill in top decking. Yes, I know that deck builds and cards like birch and Prof Oak, are the answer, but that is way too late. In the NE, Absol/Wager and XXXXX Pokemon are in full force. If you wanna win, play Absol/Magmortar with 4 wagers and 4 warp points. GG
 
It's great now, maybe even broken, but there are even more broken cards in DP4/Great Encounters/w/e, so just be patient. It's not going to take over the format.
 
But the absol combo itself gets put behind if they LOSE the wager.

In theory, an absol player should only be up half the time!

Playing a deck that has a 50% fail rate is not the way to win an event.

It is frustrating getting "donked" as a top player by the rogue deck that goes off in your face, but it is the reality of competitive Pokemon.

how many top players last year mentally threw cards and small vehicles at their opponent when their castform got taken out turn 1 by Riolu? Worse to find out that player went 0-3 in the next three matches, not only beating you, but trashing your tiebreakers too!!!

Pokemon is a luck based game, pure and simple. Even the best decks eventually get hit by the Basic, 4 energy 2 rare candy start that they cannot draw out of.

It is what makes us love this game, and then tear our hair out wondering ...how did I lose to THAT??

Vince
 
I have always said that I would rather be lucky than good. But I am neither lucky or good. I like to play decks that have set up. DWD has destroyed my chance at getting set up. I am still confused about this game but enjoy it. Please bring back skill into the game.
 
ryanvergel said:
TGW/Absol can't even begin to compare to cards like pow! or admin in terms of disruption.

We had BF in a dark/colorless- heavy power/body format, and at the same time we had pow! and admin (the greatest, most strategic card ever made IMO).

Absol's a pest, but there are easy counters. We've found a lot of counters that do well.

TGW is just a crapshoot. It's good if it hits, but it's nothing like admin. At the most recent city I went to, I remember Bianchi saying he only played RPS once. Did I mention he got to the finals?

It's a metagame thing. Absol is not the ender of this game. He's great, sleek, disruptive, and challenging. He's everything this game needs. He is NOT broken though.

Admin/pow in Mynx was broken. The deck was almost unbeatable in an untimed match because of those cards.
Click to expand...

Ryan, that's not a fair statement. The difference then was there were more cards (mostly pokemon) that let you draw cards or just plain search for them and the fact that most (not all) decks played them. Pidgeot/Magcargo/Porygon 2. The fact now is those cards arent here and it makes losing wager a lot worse.

Bianchi made it to the finals and he only play RPS once. That is a point in itself. Maybe that is the reason he made it to the finals. Who is to say if he did play RPS 3-5 more times that he would of still made it to the finals.

JMO,
Drew
 
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