Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Thank you for 30 minute limits and GG!

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Rocketman said:
Caution was what I meant.
To be clear, he was doing it before I asked the judges. The judges just allowed it. They were just following a guideline without using the common sense that comes from experince.
What Pop just described above was the way it should have been handled, but I disagree with the no penatly. If I see a player stalling, and it's fairly easy to see he knows what he's doing, I'll attach a penalty.They have to know you mean business. Unless it would lead to a PP or GL because of previous penatlies, then I would tell them that if they do it again, it will lead to that. Pop, stalling IS serious enough to issue a penatly. In masters, that is a penatly. Maybe juniors or seniors you let them slide once. I'm fairly sure Liesik doesn't care much for stalling. WWLD?
And every judge should issue a caution for stalling.
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I'm saying when I'm not sure.
It's very hard to nail down something as "stalling", easy to see slow play.
 
ryanvergel said:
Just think, Elm... what would those judges have done if they could see your posts now...
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They wouldn't think anything.
I never once cheated my way out of any wins at states, and the judges who were there know that.

I NEVER EVER intentionally stalled. That is illegal. I used the full extent of my turns which is perfectly within my rights as a player. I was not taking excessive times to complete my actions, the judges would have given me a caution or penalty. I WAS using all my resources every turn. That is poke-powers, supporters etc.

If you saw the match, you would not have seen ANYTHING that would be considered illegal that a judge didn't catch and correct.

If you know me as a player then you know that I am a VERY respectable person and player. This may sound conceited but I have no choice when I am being bashed like this. NEVER have I or will I cheat someone, please do not jump to conclusions. Y'all do not know me, y'all were not at the tournament, so please get off my case!

This is not directed solely at Ryan. I just quoted him because he was the last post I read before I felt it was necessary to defend myself.
 
PokePop said:
While players are allowed to take some time in deciding a course of action, a total turn time should only take 2-3 minutes. If a player is taking long turns, even if every action is legal, I'll extend time.
There doesn't have to be a penalty attached.
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Please tell me your head judging Masters at Worlds.
 
The issue is not whether time should be extended--30 minutes is fine. But PLAY should be extended when time is reached. It's too easy to stall out to your last turn. The rule should be "Play + X Turns"

As far as banning...the only time a card should be banned is when it prevents your opponents from playing the game.
 
Rick, you would really not assess the penalty to a player if they had a rap sheet at the event causing the penalty to escalate? Really?

To me that says that they are taking EVERY advantage to get their way, and deserve to get a message sent to them.

If they have already gotten a warning for Sportsmanship, rushing their opponent, and something else...you would have trouble saying, fine, one more time...that seems a few times too many.

Gotta send a message when needed.

Vince
 
Ok, I have read enough about the Elm and Rocketman situation to feel I need to speak up here.

As one of the Judges at this event and after watching many of the top cuts matches, the turns were balanced and equaled out during the match. Rick can attest to the fact that he was taking a bit longer as well and both players were being timed. Plays per turn was 10-13 seconds and both players were making some ectended plays. Elm did receive Caution for slow play and I do believe a time extension was offered but refused by Rocketman. (Just shows his caliber of play and he allows kids to work him over a bit.)

Elm, I suggest to you that you really consider things your are printing in public. Though I am moving to Indiana, trust me the Judges I am leaving behind are aware of Time issues with many players as I have and will continue to discuss this with them before I leave.

Will miss my Southern guys, but won't miss the Rules Lawyering that can tend to happen!! It has changed a bit over the last 2 years, but there is still some there!

Fish
 
Indiana, what part (Southern I hope...)?

I will definitely be seeing you more on the circuit, and will let you know there is a judging seat open at my Regionals if you choose to come this way for 2009!

Thanks

Vince

Oh, and on topic, thanks for the judge's input!
 
Hmmm....Danny, you were a judge there, but I don't remember any caution given. I do remember being told that he has 15 seconds per action, and that it didn't seem that he was abusing that. It was not you that told me that.
The first game took 45 minutes, and I remember rushing through every turn the second game, as he was using all powers and trainers and taking the max time to do so.
Again, I don't have any sour grapes from it. It's been over for some time, but I'm 99 % sure there was no caution given. In any case, the long turns continued, hence my point about maybe some changes being done because of trainer and power heavy decks. This was the main point of my post, and no judges or players or being blamed my me.
The blame was mine, I should have scooped the first game. I said it right after the match, and I still feel that way now.
Indy? GL Danny, I hope you and your family prospers there! I'll keep an eye on the rules laywers!! :lol:
 
The Supes said:
But that's you, not every judge out there :/
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There's a lot of us. Most players don't do what Rocketman did. They wait 'til the last minute or until after the match.

I ASKED for an extension once and you know what the judge said? "Finally! Thank You!" He'd been through 3 rounds of players telling him AFTER the match that this other player had been taking enormous turns.

Rocketman said:
I asked the judges about Kyle's excessive time during turns, and they said he had 15 seconds for each action. So Kyle really just did what the judges were allowing him to do.
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meganium45 said:
...if the judges allow it, it must be legal.
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PENALTY GUIDELINES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

(not yelling at you Rick & Vince, just frustrated that its so common to only see half the guideline published when we discuss thse things)

Open 'em up, to the section where the time limits are discussed and look for this phrase,

" a player who is taking the maximum amount of time for every action is almost certainly stalling and penalty should be assessed under unsporting conduct: SEVERE "

Hey, what's the penalty for Unsporting Severe? Why don't you (I'm looking at you, reader) look it up.

Now, in your judgment, stalling may not be the case ... it won't always be (says right there "almost"), but you got to ask yourself, are you feelin lucky today, judge!?

You sure he isn't stalling? b/c penalty guidelines say he almost certainly is.

Rocketman said:
What Pop just described above was the way it should have been handled, but I disagree with the no penatly.
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If he ain't stalling there should still be a penatly with the extension, like Rick said. You find the correct starting penalty in the Penalty Guidelines under Slow Play - doesn't everyone want to go look it up?

NoPoke said:
I extend time too.
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Another world's judge who knows about extensions. See, there's a bunch of us.

Papi/Manny said:
Kinda funny how nomar+manny+joe torre...lol yeah.
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LOL what? Dodgah fan heah! :tongue:
 
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I was not stalling, can we please drop this?

I don't appreciate being the center of this argument. In no way was my play unsportsmanlike, so please do not jump to conclusions and just drop the subject.

Thank you
 
Professor Elm said:
I was not stalling, can we please drop this?

I don't appreciate being the center of this argument. In no way was my play unsportsmanlike, so please do not jump to conclusions and just drop the subject.

Thank you
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Have you ever read the entire penalty guideline document? If you have, you would realize that taking the MAX time possible for each move, KNOWING that is the MAX time, equates to MOST CERTAINLY STALLING in the guidelines. Are you telling me that a multiple time HJ at Nats and Worlds (Bulba), a 1 time HJ Nats (Vince), a 1 time HJ Nats (me) and a multiple Worlds and Nats Judge (Rocketman....who asked about the pace of play to the Judges).....they ALL dont know what they are talking about??? You posted it....now accept your post.

OT: Hopefully, PUI sees this thread and the others of similar ilk and fixes this area.

Keith
 
Hey Professor Elm, I was not picking on you, or saying you stalled. The judges on the site are responsible for that & I can't say that they were wrong or right. My point keys off your story unfortunately, but its not about you, but the statements reportedly made (or not made).

How can we be quoting the time limits to players and not seeing the very next paragraph? There really are guidelines. Players and judges both should know what they are, but esp. judges. Again, I'm not calling out the judges at this event. This is NOT a peculiar problem. It is widespread. We should be doing a better job, esp. in this metagame.

There is no substitute for experience, but everyone's experience differs. That's why we need to know the guidelines.
 
OK folks, let's see if we can return this discussion to our awesome 30 minute time limits and the wonderfulness of Gardy & Mags.
 
Professor Elm said:
lol
I do remember that. I will admit that it's a very cheap way to win, in such a big tournament I had to do what I needed to do to win (no hard feelings, right?). During that match, I really only had a choice to keep running down the time because I knew that I had the upper hand and I didn't want to lose it by giving you extra turns. My Latios ex d and poke-power abuse was really the only thing that saved me during that matchup. Those were some good games, regardless.

.
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Elm, remember this post? This is the one I warned you about. What you just admited to is illegal by the guidelines ( Kim just put them up, check it out). NEVER post anything like this!
The funny thing is, there are a LOT of players and judges who think just as Elm does. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LEGALLY STALLING! EVER! Should Elm have gotten a " severe " penatly when I first asked about it? Meaning DQ? Interesting.
I've never seen it happen. Has anybody?
And Elm, this thing has moved way past " picking on you". For the rest of you, I know him, and he really didn't know what he was doing was wrong. He's a good kid and look, he never complained about losing to me at regionals.....to my famous 66 card deck.
What you don't want is this to turn into a lawyerfest, where judges are throwing out dq's because it says so in the guidelines everytime someone says his opponent is stalling.
I mean, it does say 15 seconds per action.........but of course, there's more to it than that.
Heck, I've been threatened and had stuff thrown at me, and that player never got dq'ed. He walked out with prizes!
Good guidelines need to be tempered with good judging. And we have all learned from our mistakes!
I know everyone who has posted here has made them. :lol:
 
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bulbasnore said:
OK folks, let's see if we can return this discussion to our awesome 30 minute time limits and the wonderfulness of Gardy & Mags.
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:nonono: Wonderfulness of Garde *cries*.

I'm looking forward to worlds regardless of structure. I would like to see best 2/3 45 minutes as that's what I'm used to, but hey, can't have everything, amirite?

So I guess we'll just have to do our best to play around it huh?:thumb:
 
I really do hope judges think for themselves on the whole 15 sec thing. During a game I will probably have at least 2 plays that take me 30 sec to think out. But all my other plays are well under 10 and I usually don't exceed the 2-2 1/2 minutes turns (The Average) What really gets to me is when people push the max every single time. Exeptionally on the 2 min Keen Eyes. (Yea I'm looking at you Jason LOL)
 
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