The Best Trainer In the Game

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Martin, Aug 8, 2003.

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  1. Martin

    Martin Active Member

    HMMMMM, I think a good discussion is in order. We all have our opinions on the best trainer card in the game, so lets hear them.

    In my opinion, Copycat is the best trainer in all of Pokemon. In Standard (unlimited) it is simply top notch and uncompared too. Professor Oak is a JOKE. Recycle energy is played in most standard decks, so you can't even afford to get rid of that puppy.

    In Modified, Professor Elm or Copycat would be my picks. Although, I favor Copycat in Modified as well, you can't deny Professor Elm's effectiveness and consistancy.

    Any thoughts?
  2. YoungJohn06

    YoungJohn06 New Member

    I disagree in Unlimited... copycat is decent in Unlimited... but I think Professor Oak is better... in most decks. I think maybe in a deck with Slowking or maybe one with Erika/imposter oaks revenge... Erika them into a huge hand... copycat for a huge hand of your own again if you need something new (even though your hand is already giant...) then imposter oaks revenge them down to four...

    Okay, the more I think about it... the more I think both Copycat and Oak are really decent in Unlimited... I'm starting to see your point lol. :D I still say Oak is pretty darn good though... and one of the best draw powers.

    Computer search is also in my favorite of unlimited... it's awesome. It allows you to get what ever you want when ever you want (provided you have it in your hand when you want it)

    In Modified: I'd say here the most consistent is Copycat... I like it more than Elm in most situations... my decks normally run 4 Copycat and 3 Elm... It works pretty well. I'd say the top trainers in Modified are....

    1. Copycat
    2. Professor Elm
    3. Double gust
    4. Gold Berry
    5. Oracle

    Those are some of the best ones I think... though I'm finding that I really like scoop up anymore... I normally throw one in almost any deck I play... especially if I play the Legendary Body Entei/Suicune/Raikou... that way Pichu is just a waste on them pretty much. :)

    Good idea for a topic Marty! :thumb:
  3. )v(ajin_ipg21

    )v(ajin_ipg21 New Member

    Copycat in unlimited? You are certifiable Martin :p
    SOMETIMES you just have to sacrifice in UNLIMITED.

    EITHER: CPU & Item Finder.
  4. Martin

    Martin Active Member

    Item finder isn't really a staple, but computer search is definitly up there.

    Copycat is VERY good in Unlimited, alot of people don't see it because they are still stuck on the idea that Unlimited is all, "Oak, Search, burn half your deck by turn 2". It isn't that way anymore, unlimited is a slower more Strategic format. That is why Copycat is so good.

    Eeeeeeek'ing is everything, Copycat takes advantage of that. Also, it is THE BEST Possible top deck after you have been Lass/Eeeeeeek'd.
  5. Marril

    Marril New Member

    Unlimited is a slower, more strategic format...

    ...unless you're playing a quick, aggressive deck. The truth is that there is no "one best trainer", because of the varying play styles for various decks. What is a truly overpowered card in one deck could be worth Magikarp in another deck.

    That said, I toss in my vote for Oak. Play him right, you can't go wrong with him.
  6. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Unlimited is not more strategic -- it's all about speed. Modified allows for more strategy, since so many of the fastest Pokemon are not allowed. Anyway, for Unlimited (I've never played Modified), one of my favorite Trainers is Oracle. Combo'd right, Oracle can give you two cards you need/want in one turn. I'm also fond of Gust of Wind. It can be really helpful against any type of stall strategy.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2003
  7. Ron13

    Ron13 New Member

    Sure, speed is nice in Unlimited. It doesn't mean everything. If you waste half your deck to find a few cards you need, you've lost a great deal of flexibility. By your next turn, you can lose a great deal of the resources you wasted all those cards for. The idea, therefore, is to get what you need with the smallest amount of waste. (Unless, of course, you have your chance to win in one turn. ;) )

    In other words, efficiency has become more important than pure speed.

    With that in mind, I'd say Computer Search is at the top overall, with Copycat second. Both give you a very good - or perfect - chance of getting what you need, for relatively small costs. Sure, you'll want your Oak or your SER in certain situations, but you often waste a lot of cards or time in the process.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2003
  8. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Best trainer in the game ... mmm how about one that is not broken on it's own and does see play in every unlimited deck.. I vote CPU search:thumb:
  9. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan New Member

    Id have to throw in my vote for Copycat
  10. Dendrobatida

    Dendrobatida New Member

    I'm afraid that my two cents is going to have to diverge from the pack. I'm not going with a card-drawing card like copycat, oak, or elm. If you asked me "What would you do without copycat?", and the format were unlimited, I'd say "I'll play oak and elm". If you say, "What would you do without oak?" I'd say "I'll play copycat and elm", etc. I certainly don't deny the power of card-drawing; I run just as many of them in my decks as anyone else at a competitive level. They are vital. However, the question of whether they will change the course of the game is answered solely through chance. They will improve your odds of winning, but I've played enough games to have been soundly beaten by people who never once use a single card-drawing or searching card (ala CPU or IF), and I've lost plenty of games in which I was in need of a certain card - most often the one I'm going to nominate in just a bit - and used four or five card drawing cards (Copycat...darn....oak...darn...oak...darn....cpu search...oh, there it is...only took me sixteen cards and half of my draw engine to find it) just to find it, if I find it at all. My nominee for best trainer is the one I think changes the game the most profoundly, and that is:

    Gust of wind.

    and, in modified, its younger brother double gust.

    With the advent (birth?) of the baby pokemon, this board-altering card has become even more important, especially in tournament play. In the case of GOW, there are no drawbacks, there is no chance of a result you do not intend, and no flip. Even the low-drawback bill has a chance of yielding an early game nightly garbage run (town volunteers, if you prefer) and basic energy. You simply change the board in a way of your choosing which favors you. It will get you the knockout. It will save you for a few turns. It will shut off active pokemon powers. It will force your opponent to burn cards to counteract it. To close, I've asked this question near the end of games hundreds of times: "Do you have the gust?". If the answer is yes, the game is over. I can't recall a time when I've asked, "Do you have the copycat?" and crossed my fingers hoping the answer is "no".

    Addendum: I can see someone arguing "Yeah, but how're you gonna get that gust in your hand, huh?" My reply: any one of a dozen or more ways : oak, bill, copycat, POR, comp. search, item finder, etc. I retort: "How are you going to get that benched pokemon active for your final KO this turn?" Unless you're playing Victreebel/dark ivysaur, or you like flips, or you're willing to wait a turn, you have two options, both containing the word "gust".
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2003
  11. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    I personally laugh when I think of Elm in Unlimited? No more trainers this turn? Suddenly I feel very safe.

    Even in Modified, it gets me to relax, knowing I will not be DG's that turn.

    I would say in unlimited Computer Search is the bomb. I agree copycat is a close second, esp in trapper decks, and to recover from the lass/eek, but I would be just as happy topdecking a computer search as a copycat when I have been lass/eeeeeeeked, get the oak, oak one card (if that many) and go on.

    In modified, copycat is a two edged sword, depends on your opponent having a huge hand, but I am hard pressed to pick a better trainer, still a better risk than Oak's revenge and Oracle/Bill. I have to agree with Ness that Oracle is a HUGE trainer in the past present modified envio.

    In RS on, at this point it would be birch, not much to choose from (heck, it would almost be switch!)

    My idea.....

  12. Turbo Blastoise

    Turbo Blastoise New Member

    I see where you guys are coming from in terms of card-drawing trainers and there is no question that in any format that is important. However, in Pokemon, it can be just as effective to mess over your opponent then it is to help yourself. So for Unlimited I would have to say the cards that have had the greatest impact in the game is *drumroll please*

    Energy Removal/Super Energy Removal

    C'mon. Back in '99 and '00, people would quiver at the fact when a player would play SER and would force them to lose 2 energies on their big evo for their opponents one. This 95% meant that not only could their opponent not attack that turn but they also had to come up with a way to restore that energy on their pokemon that just got ER'ed. Most decks (exception being probably Rain Dance) couldnt. A cleverly played ER or SER would do much to ruin one's opponents strategy since ALL decks rely on energy to get their pokemon powered up. And by the way, these cards went in all decks while the card was still legal and before the onset of Modified. I'm telling you, people ran away in fear from ER/SER!! And this card still rocks especially when Neo came out with the Dark and Steel Pokemon. Removing 2 Special energies from your opponent is nothing to sneeze at since you just took away half of their special energies from their corresponding deck(whether Dark or Steel).

    Too bad there isn't a good replacement in Modified for ER/SER (ER2 and SER2 stink) so I'd have to say I prefer Professor Elm over Copycat due to it's consistent "Draw 7" ability. Sorry guys, I just don't like to be reliant on my opponent having so many number of cards in his hand to allow me to draw a good hand. Professor Elm gets the job done everytime for me in Modified.

    But remember guys, it's just as important to disrupt your opponent's plans then to go forth with your own. And I've found that ER/SER is often times the best way to go about it (at least in Unlimited).
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2003
  13. Martin

    Martin Active Member

    Meganium, if you were to top deck the computer search after a lass/eeeeeeek, why would you get the oak over the copycat? Both of you get a guarenteed 7 cards, but with the cat, you arent discarding any resources.
  14. YoungJohn06

    YoungJohn06 New Member

    You've made me a believer Marty lol.. cat is better than oak in this environment.

    However, I think if you just take them and look at the cards and see what they do without taking into consideration what is played most often... Oak would win, but when thinking about what is played, and what you play copycat is better.
  15. Baboon

    Baboon New Member

    Copycat all the way. Ever since I got my first one in Sept '02, I saw its potential. It's got the best of what's out there. You get 7 cards following your opponent's Elm or Eeeeeeek, AND still can play Trainers on your turn. Yes, you may not get a whole lot of cards, in the fact your opponent won't always have a huge hand, but that's why you have other Trainers in your deck also. In my experience, Copycat gives you around 6 cards, unless your opponent just Eeeeeeeked, and you'll get 7. :p
    Just face it, hand-changing Trainers will always be more crucial in the game than any other random card. (Loves Modified Copycat...)
    As for Unlimited, I still like Misty's Wrath, despite lots of criticism from people... I know it's not the best thing out there, but for the super-turbo decks I run, burning through 30 cards in 1 turn isn't that bad, if it gets me most everything I need. ^_^
  16. BPM

    BPM New Member

    Hmm... there can be no ONE best Trainer. As you'd have to factor in the different "categories" of Trainers there are.

    There are drawing Trainers (Like Oak, Elm, etc.)
    There are healing Trainers (Potion, Gold Berry, etc.)
    Defensive Trainers (Defender, Weakness Guard, etc.)
    Technical Machines (Water Cube 01, Miracle Sphere ß, etc.)

    I think before deciding what the overall best Trainer is, you should at least decide what is the best Trainer for each "category".

    Just my insight, anyways.
  17. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    My response, Martin, is by using Copycat, you are using a resource, your supporter play for the turn.

    In this the day of Oracle, Fan Club, Vol, and others, there are a few that are useful outside of Copycat, but none that quite reaches that level.

    Let's face it, after you comp search, you can still oak, and have all your options open to you....

    Unlimited is about maximizing options every turn. There is only one card that thrives without multiple energy, being clefable. Any other deck is susceptable to energy removal, and therefore continued trainer play and options.

    I get to check my mad unlimited skill this weekend, and will be using only 2 supporters - Cat and Fan Club..

    Only using Cat because of Erika...Guarantee getting what I need there!

    See you all soon.

  18. The Dark Llama

    The Dark Llama New Member

    How about Here Comes Team Rocket! ? It practically lets yo uknow what you can choose from, it fit perfectly in the Feralisect decks.
  19. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan New Member

    You got to be kidding me.

  20. surfingpika

    surfingpika New Member

    Go ahead and laugh, but when I think of good trainners, I'd say the best are Recycle, NGR, and Town Volunteers. All of these cards are nice to get cards back going, like when you have been over retreating, or when your opponent has used heavy er/ser. It never hurts any deck to get ko'ed pokemon, oaked cards, or cards lost to other things again.
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