GREAT posts all over in this topic. This was an amazing idea.
Devil's Advocate Questions for you guys: - part 4
Question #9 = HOW DO I BEAT GYRARADOS with this deck ???
Question #10 = How do I beat a deck that Prevents me from Using my trainers? Is that what they mean by "Trainer Lock"? What decks lock trainers?
Question 9:
Gyarados is a challenge, and part of why it's done well and is as popular as it is, is because of its solid Luxchomp matchup. Gyarados is able to OHKO virtually any Pokemon that Luxchomp can throw at it, and has incredible recovery and competitive speed.
A Luxchomp build going unprepared into a Gyarados matchup should play a speed and disruption game at first. Your Garchomp Cs aren't useless in the match, but setting them up like normal may hinder your ability to recover Luxrays quickly, which can be a death sentence. If you can force a Regice active and KO it while spraying their Regi Moves, you're off to a good start - not a foolproof entering strategy, but one with some merit. Bear in mind that they can Rescue it back and/or Junk Arm the Karps away if their hand permits.
You approach the match the same way you approach other Stage 2 matches: take as many easy, disruptive prizes as you can so that once they do set up, you can easily and quickly take whatever is left and claim the game before your opponent squashes you. Eat ALL of their Sableyes and prevent them from getting their setup via Impersonate - they are cheap, quick prizes that help your cause. If you have the space to Dragon Rush something, target Regice if you can -
if you can't, be careful if you snipe a Pixie, because they may Rescue it back and get another free use of its power.
See below for what happens if they start rolling you with a Gyarados lol.
A Luxchomp build going into a Gyarados metagame will want to play the following:
-
Lucario GL. Playing Gyarados without it is almost suicide.
-
A nice, heavy Crobat count. I always play 2 just because the things are so darn useful.
-
3-1 Luxray is a bonus. More base Luxrays means more Trash Bolt knockouts without having to recover for them.
The idea behind this is simply that Trash Bolt with Lucario in play and a Bat drop in the same turn will OHKO an Expert Belted Gyarados. If they don't Belt, due to poor draw or whatever reason, you can KO them with Trash Bolt (and no flash bite) or Flash Impact (and a flash bite), the latter being very preferable because it then forces them to Belt or double Flash Bite in order to revenge KO you (as long as you don't place that damage on yourself). Bonus!
But don't think that your 3-1 Luxray, 2 Bat G and Lucario GL is going to make your Gyarados match favorable! It's still an uphill battle if you can't stop them from getting a Gyarados out before you've taken three-ish Prizes. If you knock out a Gyarados, they are just one Pokemon Rescue away from revenge KOing you. If they knock out your Luxray, you need to get LCC attached PLUS an energy in hand you're willing to discard to ensure the return knockout. You're at a serious disadvantage in this matchup's shootout, which is why it's so vital to take those early prizes so that you can limit the pain as much as possible!
Also watch out for Cyclone Energy and Regi Move forcing you to switch your Pokemon around when you really don't want to switch. It can make Gyarados' life easy by forcing you to push something active that they can then Knock Out.
Question 10:
I personally rarely have issues with "trainer lock" decks, but I have not played a great many Vilegar matches, so I don't know much about it for sure.
A trainer lock is a field situation in which you cannot use trainers consistently. Vileplume/Gengar, Magnezone, and Dialgachomp all can put the pressure on you with trainerlock.
Dialgachomp is a serious threat because of its already great metagame status. If you can shut it down with key early game Power Sprays, they may be forced into a shootout with Garchomp C - one that you can probably (but not always) win. If not, and you end up with a massive tanked-up Dialga staring you down with Deafen for 30 every single turn, you're in serious trouble and there's really not much you can do except (assuming they don't play Ruins of Alph) promote Luxray GL and hope for the best while you limit their damage output. Usually, trying to kill the Dialga is a waste of time - focus on their Garchomp Cs and Pixies instead.
Magnezone is a bit out there right now so I haven't played it a bunch. See Vilegar for some general tips on beating it, but as far as Zone itself goes, some players are very frustrated with Magnezone's great hit-and-run tactics that prevent it from being easily targeted. If a Belted Magnezone is giving you serious problems and you NEED to lay the hurt on it, let it KO one of your Pokemon - say, a Pixie - then promote Luxray, Bright Look the Zone, and retreat into a Promocroak + Flash Bite (now that you aren't trainer locked)! If they don't knock out the Toxicroak G, you can Leap Away even if they trainer lock you and go back to your normal shenanigans.
Vileplume/Gengar (Vilegar) has been seen as a threat in Swiss if not overall in the last several months, for its fearsome combination of fierce trainer lock and awesome damage output - plus Fainting Spell. It's actually pretty quick if run in a streamlined highly consistent list, but it still has some weaknesses that can be exploited during setup - though, Luxchomp isn't as good at it as some other decks may be.
Firstly, part of what it relies on to get going is
Spiritomb. This little booger dies to Flash Impact, which is fortunately not hard to charge up quickly even when trainer locked. Remember how I said in stage 2 matches you take as many early disruptive prizes as you can? Well, here's a great opportunity to do that - even if they're still able to drop the evolutions from their hand, knocking out Spiritombs puts some pressure on them early and gives you some Prizes to work with. When you initially Level Up, it might not be a bad idea to use that Bright Look to knock out their upcoming Vileplume however is necessary (Uxie Lv. X works wonders here).
Speaking of which - the second thing is that they need to set up two separate Stage 2 lines, which sometimes works great - and other times is very slow. Worse, they can't use Rare Candy. So more often than they would like, they're going to find themselves with 70-80 HP Pokemon sitting on the bench hoping to see light of day as their fully fledged Evolution. Eat them up with Garchomps and you can bet it'll help you stay ahead.
As far as general rules about playing under Trainer Lock goes, here are a few basic tips:
- Play Call Energy! You can use it to take the place of your Energy Gains under Trainer lock (it's unsearchable but better than nothing) and it can also double to search out your Basics early in the game, which might otherwise be very difficult to do.
- Play shuffle supporters. These can do two important things for you. Firstly, they empty your hand against Vilegar to help limit their damage output. Secondly, they force up some new cards quickly, which can often give you that DCE or Level X card you've been BEGGING for for several turns.
- Playing 2 Bebe's Search is considered standard in a metagame that may include trainer lock (as opposed to the usual 1 + Luxury Ball). You might also consider removing your Premier Ball, possibly for a third Bebe's Search.
- When you play Cyrus, search your deck for Energy Gains and Poke-Turns, and leave the Power Sprays and SP Radars alone. If the trainer lock lets up, it will probably only do so for a moment - long enough to get the Energy Gains down and play some Poke-Turn shenanigans, but not long enough that you'll be able to Spray anything, and also probably late enough in the game that SP Radar won't help you.
