Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

The line between upholding the spirit of the game or being a pushover.How thin is it?

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The talk of someone getting penalized for intentionally letting their opponent break the game state reminds me of a match I had at Nationals this year.

I was playing Reshiboar with RDL against a Magneboar with RDL. For some reason I had to attack early with RDL and my opponent got the return KO with Magnezone. Something like 3 turns later I glanced at his prizes and realized he had only three prizes left (and I was at 3 myself at this point). Searched my discard to see what was there; asked him how many prizes he had left to confirm; double-checked the discard again. Only Pokemon there was the RDL, and no recovery cards so I couldn't possibly have miscounted. Called over a judge and my opponent didn't argue that that's what happened (indeed, he said he thought you took 3 prizes for knocking out RDL, which... well, yes, of course, if he'd done so with his RDL and not Magnezone, but as he was playing it himself he should have known better). So the game state is repaired as much as possible by him placing a random card from hand as a prize, and I'm allowed to take a prize for the penalty.

Now, this was only my second tournament, having just started 3 months prior. I had read up on SotG and as much as I could about tournament rules etc. but hadn't thought too much about what I'd do if I were in a situation like this because it just hadn't came up, and I mostly thought that unless it was some kind of blatant cheating I would try to mute the effect of the penalty on the match because I don't want that to be the way I win.

I ended up mulling it over for a moment and taking the prize, mostly because my opponent had been playing RDL himself and should've known how its Poke-Body works.

After doing that and getting to my next turn though (now at 2 prizes left), I realized that I already had all the pieces I needed to lay down another RDL and power it up even before taking that prize for the penalty. Thus, my opponent being penalized at that moment gave me the win next turn.

I wasn't aiming for that intentionally of course, it just happened that that was the moment I looked at his prizes and realized that something was wrong. But surely the judge who watched the rest of the match could've thought I'd done it on purpose considering that once I realized I had the win in hand, I went ahead and took it.

So I'm kind of curious over how closely the line is looked at here intent-wise, because I can see how to an outside observer my choices could've appeared to be going against SotG if I were intentionally setting up my opponent to lose on a penalty, even though I hadn't realized that was going to happen.


And as for your opponent's understanding of the cards, the policy I've taken if someone asks me what a card does is to either have them read it, or read it to them verbatim. If they don't ask and there's some kind of option for them that they miss, that's their own fault. It was mostly relevant for me at Nats when I was running Cheerleader's Cheerl if my opponent asked I would read the card text but if they didn't take a card and didn't say anything I wasn't going to be reminding them.
 
To chriscobi: The examples you gave don't really count since they don't involve altering an event in the game that would have normally happened. What I mean by this is let's pretend every game we play in person played out like a game in the computer (pokemon online or the old TCG one for the gameboy). If the OP was playing an online opponent, the Reshiram would have never been knocked out in the first example, therefore he acted correctly. In the second example, the computer would have automatically discarded 2 energies from Reshiram for Blue Flare. I think it would be very wrong of a player to bypass a game procedure that a computer would normally execute for their own advantage.

Playing to win simply means that you don't baby your opponent through the match. For example, I have had plenty of opponents with Uxie Lv X who forgot to use the ability that turn. It wasn't my job to remind them to do it, if they forgot, it's their problem. Same thing with energy attachment. If they forget, I'm not going to remind them.
 
I'm coming into this rather late, but you obviously did the right thing in situations one and two. Situation three you should have called a judge. When I was a Junior and even young Senior, I admit I probably would not have done the right thing in situations one and two. However, it didn't take me long to realize that winning because your opponent does things they can't legally do is just wrong and not very rewarding.

For example, the first round of my Cities two weeks ago, I played a pokemom. She was using her water deck (Lanturn/Yanmega/Samurott) against my Reshiram, so I was obviously in deep crap even though she didn't really know what she was doing. I also got a bad start and had to discard 2 Junk Arm and 2 PlusPower off of a T1 Juniper.

She did silly things like forgetting to draw a card at the start of her turn, forgetting to sleep check after my turn, and forgetting to draw prizes, but I was careful to remind her to do these things every time she messed up, even though the prize exchange was pretty even.

On the other hand, she made misplays like Catchering Quilava over Typhlosion, and I did not point out why these things were wrong. I was able to capitalize on these types of legal misplays enough to take the win. Most players will agree with me that this was the right thing to do; I don't know any players who think it's good to point out legal misplays your opponent makes, then let them change their actions.
 
To chriscobi: The examples you gave don't really count since they don't involve altering an event in the game that would have normally happened. What I mean by this is let's pretend every game we play in person played out like a game in the computer (pokemon online or the old TCG one for the gameboy). If the OP was playing an online opponent, the Reshiram would have never been knocked out in the first example, therefore he acted correctly. In the second example, the computer would have automatically discarded 2 energies from Reshiram for Blue Flare. I think it would be very wrong of a player to bypass a game procedure that a computer would normally execute for their own advantage.

Playing to win simply means that you don't baby your opponent through the match. For example, I have had plenty of opponents with Uxie Lv X who forgot to use the ability that turn. It wasn't my job to remind them to do it, if they forgot, it's their problem. Same thing with energy attachment. If they forget, I'm not going to remind them.


This. If the TCGO (any bugs notwithstanding) wouldn't let your opponent do it, you better not either.
 
But theoretically, don't you deserve it? After all, they made the mistake.

No, because it says in the rules that both players are responsible for following the state of the game.

Plus, it has a lot to do with personal respect.
 
That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You PLAY to WIN the game.

HELLO?!

You PLAY to WIN the game. You don't play to just play it.

That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You play to win & I don't care if you don't have any wins, you play to win.

You start telling me it doesn't matter, then get out, because it matters.

This whole conversation bothers me.
 
That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You PLAY to WIN the game.

HELLO?!

You PLAY to WIN the game. You don't play to just play it.

That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You play to win & I don't care if you don't have any wins, you play to win.

You start telling me it doesn't matter, then get out, because it matters.

This whole conversation bothers me.

I don't really get the point you are trying to make.

Regardless.... play to win, fairly.
 
That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You PLAY to WIN the game.

HELLO?!

You PLAY to WIN the game. You don't play to just play it.

That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You play to win & I don't care if you don't have any wins, you play to win.

You start telling me it doesn't matter, then get out, because it matters.

This whole conversation bothers me.
Erm...

You shouldn't be playing Pokemon just because you can win. Play it because you're having fun, hanging out with friends, etc. If you want to win so badly you want to cheat to do it, you probably shouldn't be playing this game. You should play to try to win. You win some, you lose some. That's just how it goes. It's a luck-based game.
 
That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You PLAY to WIN the game.

HELLO?!

You PLAY to WIN the game. You don't play to just play it.

That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You play to win & I don't care if you don't have any wins, you play to win.

You start telling me it doesn't matter, then get out, because it matters.

This whole conversation bothers me.

People play Pokemon for many different reasons. YOU might play to win the game. Others might play to have fun, or meet friends.

If you can't deal with that . . . well then, maybe you should take your own advice, or at least stop telling others what to do.

And like rokman said . . . you play to win fairly. Playing unfairly makes winning meaningless: it doesn't require skill, just a lack of conscience.
 
If I may say something...

Sometimes, depending on the tourney and stuff, it could also just be pure nerves.

Back when I was a senior, I would always be shaking out of my wits during the first round, to a point you'd think I'd pass out. Nobody ever really asked if I was okay or anything, but I do recall forgetting to draw a card once or twice just from a kinda nerves moment, and some nice folks helping me out. I also recall in a regionals that my first opponent was very relaxed, and helped me out a lot to just chill out and enjoy it. That regionals was my second tourney ever, and just because of the nice people around helping me out every now and then during and between rounds, I can look back and say I enjoyed it.

Now-a-days, I try my hardest to help out with the game state. Sure, I'm still nervous as heck sometimes, but I remember how it felt to have a kind opponent who just felt like you could chill with, and I want to be that to someone out there who's nervous. What I say is always show SoTG. Now, I'm not saying tell your opponent what to catcher and whatcha got in your hand, but if they forgot to draw a prize, just kinda hint a little towards it, or if they start something before drawing a card, a little reminder won't kill anyone. Better to leave the game knowing that you lost with dignity then win with knowing you cheated on your conscious.

In other news, why so competitive? Isn't pokemon to have fun, with a little competition mixed in? I mean, why not laugh a bit with your opponent rather then just go "Lol, Tyrogue donk, sign the slip, laters!". I'd much rather make an impression on my opponents so they'd remember be for being "That random nice guy". Sure, reaching top cut is great, but being a cheater to get there just ain't right.

Also, on the topic of SoTG, one thing I kinda noticed from tourneys is courtesy lack before a round starts. By this, I mean right in that dead moment of pairings being up, everyone charges right at that board and shoves the others out of the way like a crazed rhino. Why not just allow someone else to go on ahead, or wait a bit for them to get going before you see where ya gotta sit? If anything, I'd say that's where some SotG needs to be thrown to. Courtesy to the others can get ya far, or at least a little step or something...
 
Something like this happened in my first Cities game.

I started with a Zekrom active and a Tynamo on the bench. My opponent goes first with a Phanpy after winning the coin flip. He attaches and energy and passes. I attach an energy to Zekrom and pass. He then evolves into Donphan and hits my Zekrom for 120 damage. The next turn I attach an energy and outrage. Both of us forgot about Donphan's resistance and my opponent begins to clean up his cards. I later remembered the resistance while watching a friend's match. Feeling terrible, I went back to the guy I faced and explained the situation to him, offering to talk to the head judge about what happened. The head judge told me that my opponent wasn't paying attention to his cards and cleaned up his cards, which resulted in a game loss for him. I even told the judge that I wouldn't mind playing another game for a new outcome. I felt really bad and I think he dropped after a couple rounds.
 
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That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You PLAY to WIN the game.

HELLO?!

You PLAY to WIN the game. You don't play to just play it.

That's the greatest thing about Pokemon. You play to win & I don't care if you don't have any wins, you play to win.

You start telling me it doesn't matter, then get out, because it matters.

This whole conversation bothers me.

There's numerous reasons that people play.

Examples. I've recently been teaching my girlfriend how to play and she's been telling me that she's gradually improving. Not quite an expert but she's definitely getting more comfortable playing the game and learning from it. The two of us playing the game together, we have fun. Though, I'm a competitor that's been playing for years, she's still getting the hang of it and I tend to hear about how she feels intimidated playing others because she's new, they constantly place well, and she feels as if they think she's downright dumb for making some of the moves and mistakes that she does once in a while. In addition to this, I have to hear how her matches went afterwards and I've often heard from her that her opponent was snobby and rude to her because of either her forgetfulness, length of thinking turns through, or just misplaying in general.

Another example that happened to me the other day, was that I was playing a girl who thanked me for being nice to her. She thanked me for being a nice comforting talkative opponent because she'd said everyone had been rude to her up until that point. Maybe it's just me, but I found it was pretty disturbing. I appreciated being thanked by all means, but my point is I shouldn't have had to be.
 
Situations 1 and 2 I would have let him scoop and make the mistakes. Then after you winning the game I would have told him his mistakes nicely so that he wouldn't do them next time. Basically, making him lose like that should provide a learning experience. It would stay ingrained in that persons mind to not make mistakes like that.

Now you forgetting your prizes is a tricky one. I'm not going to lie, I would have snuck my prizes down there. Then after the match I would have told him what happend and give him advice on keeping his hand above the table and to pay attention to everything your opponent is doing. I actually think you did the right play on your part to penalize yourself. The judge might have done the same thing, or gave you a game loss. You lost anyway due to regular play, so I wouldn't blame that loss on the prize situation.
 
Now you forgetting your prizes is a tricky one. I'm not going to lie, I would have snuck my prizes down there. Then after the match I would have told him what happend and give him advice on keeping his hand above the table and to pay attention to everything your opponent is doing.

So you would

1. Cheat.

and

2. Tell your opponent you cheated.

Poor, amphy, poor. What if a judge got to hear about what you did?

I wouldn't have expected that from you.
 
Situations 1 and 2 I would have let him scoop and make the mistakes. Then after you winning the game I would have told him his mistakes nicely so that he wouldn't do them next time. Basically, making him lose like that should provide a learning experience. It would stay ingrained in that persons mind to not make mistakes like that.

Now you forgetting your prizes is a tricky one. I'm not going to lie, I would have snuck my prizes down there. Then after the match I would have told him what happend and give him advice on keeping his hand above the table and to pay attention to everything your opponent is doing. I actually think you did the right play on your part to penalize yourself. The judge might have done the same thing, or gave you a game loss. You lost anyway due to regular play, so I wouldn't blame that loss on the prize situation.

And your a league leader? Are you teaching your league members that? :mad: :nonono:
 
And your a league leader? Are you teaching your league members that? :mad: :nonono:

No!! I just wanted to proove a point that a player should learn from their mistakes by Experience. I guess I came off wrong in that 3rd situation. Actually I wouldn't have told him that I cheated, but I would tell him to always pay attention to the game. I know that doing that would be wrong and you should tell a judge. Your opponent has to learn someway though.
 
Situation 1:

You did the right thing to correct him. It would have been incorrect to do extra damage. That would have been doing something the game should not do.

Situoation 2:

Again you did the right thing. It would have been incorrect to discard 3 energy as that is not an option.

Situation 3:

You did the wrong thing this time. Slipping your prizes would have been wrong as well. You should have informed your opponent on the situation then called over a judge. Slipping prizes would have been cheating. You are also not allowed to declare your own penalties. The only thing you could do here is call over a judge even though at turn 5 and alot of things have happened in the game so it would have been a game-loss.
 
I don't really get the point you are trying to make.

Regardless.... play to win, fairly.
Erm...

You shouldn't be playing Pokemon just because you can win. Play it because you're having fun, hanging out with friends, etc. If you want to win so badly you want to cheat to do it, you probably shouldn't be playing this game. You should play to try to win. You win some, you lose some. That's just how it goes. It's a luck-based game.
People play Pokemon for many different reasons. YOU might play to win the game. Others might play to have fun, or meet friends.

If you can't deal with that . . . well then, maybe you should take your own advice, or at least stop telling others what to do.

And like rokman said . . . you play to win fairly. Playing unfairly makes winning meaningless: it doesn't require skill, just a lack of conscience.

Come on, guys.
 
Situations 1 and 2 I would have let him scoop and make the mistakes. Then after you winning the game I would have told him his mistakes nicely so that he wouldn't do them next time. Basically, making him lose like that should provide a learning experience. It would stay ingrained in that persons mind to not make mistakes like that.

Now you forgetting your prizes is a tricky one. I'm not going to lie, I would have snuck my prizes down there. Then after the match I would have told him what happend and give him advice on keeping his hand above the table and to pay attention to everything your opponent is doing. I actually think you did the right play on your part to penalize yourself. The judge might have done the same thing, or gave you a game loss. You lost anyway due to regular play, so I wouldn't blame that loss on the prize situation.

This is one of the most depressing things I have read in a long time. I wouldn't want you playing in any tournament I was involved in, knowing you would prefer to cheat 3 times rather than maintain the gamestate properly.

And no, he did not do the right thing by penalizing himself. Few gamestate corrections, and NO penalties, should be given without a Judge involved. Heck, even a Judge wouldn't be allowed to issue the penalty he gave himself, the Head Judge would need to be involved and at least confirm the penalty. Do you really think a player should be giving out penalties on their own that the Head Judge is supposed to be involved in?
 
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