Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

The Perfect Solution

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Sweet

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How many times have there been threads complaining about broken cards?

Or about how bad the format is - that it's lacking certain things?

Not to say that all of the complaining has been true, but there is a certain degree of truth to most of them.

Well I've come up with an idea to solve it, and it's also a win-win situation. No one misses out!

Why not pay top class Pokemon TCG players (Sami, Ness, Pooka etc) to create cards, change rules, and just make the game better?

I'm sure they'd love that job - it's basically Create a Card but you get paid for it, and they could work in their own homes. Perfect.

That way the format (I'm sure) would be amazing, things could easily be fixed in the next set, and the game would become a lot more popular thus making them the money to pay the top class players and have a profit left over.

What are peoples thoughts on this?
 
Sweet said:
Why not pay top class Pokemon TCG players (Sami, Ness, Pooka etc) to create cards, change rules, and just make the game better?
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And be barred from playing Pokemon competitively because they would now be employed by/affiliated with TPCi?

No chance.

Developing fair and balanced cards requires a dedicated testing team, not a bunch of top players deciding what does into the game. Additionally, most of the complaints about the format are from players who aren't winning tournaments. Very few of people's complaints are actually damaging the game in a significant way. Aside from the first turn rules, I don't know of any other complaints of the game that are universally agreed upon.

Think of it this way. If there's a rock/paper/scissors format (like at Cities), you have people complain that matchups are too "luck-of-the-draw." If there's a consistently tiered format (like we do now), you have people complain that a couple cards are "too good." If Stage 2s are dominating the format, you have people complain that their favorite legendaries are too weak. If Basic legendary Pokemon are dominating the format, you have people complain that Stage 2s are too weak.

You're not going to stop people from whining and complaining about some part of the game, regardless of who designs the cards. :nonono:

---------- Post added 04/04/2012 at 05:39 PM ----------

Let me put it this way: How many people who won a States this year (in Masters, of course) have you heard complaining about Pokemon Catcher, Junk Arm, and Mewtwo EX?

None.
 
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^I don't know about any of those people the OP named, but if I was paid full-time to become R&D for the Pokemon Trading Card Game, I would quit competitive play in an instant. Many of you would too, I bet!

Anyways, not too sure how practical this idea is, but at the very least, PCL could loosen the reins a bit, and let individual players (both in Japan and worldwide) submit their own ideas for cards. OP's idea goes back to a more general principle that the competitive players who have been around for years know what makes this game fun, as well as how to balance power creep with competitive effects. For those reasons, it would really benefit TPC to let its most loyal customers take command of the game from time to time.

EDIT: just saw your thing about people complaining about...other things. I'm a Master who won a State, and I'll definitely complain about:

*The grossly unfair advantage given to the player going first (not alleviated at all by Fast Ticket, btw)
*Mewtwo EX (too high HP; outclasses way too many past cards)
*Pokemon Catcher (reprint from the bad old days that should have just been called Gust of Wind)
*Junk Arm (yet another reprint from the bad old days)
 
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MTG did this, and it worked out tremendously.

Pokemon would GREATLY benefit from having some top competitive players work in card design but the problem is, Japan is in control of card design for the most part, so unless things drastically change, this won't happen
 
psychup2034 said:
And be barred from playing Pokemon competitively because they would now be employed by/affiliated with TPCi?

No chance.

I'm not sure if this would be the case. At the end of the day, they couldn't help themselves out, and not others. What's the problem?
Developing fair and balanced cards requires a dedicated testing team, not a bunch of top players deciding what does into the game.

They're not stupid - they'll likely know what problems there are. If the current people are so good, how come the only good decks at the moment are basics? Mewtwo EX was clearly broken, but only they couldn't see it.

Additionally, most of the complaints about the format are from players who aren't winning tournaments. Very few of people's complaints are actually damaging the game in a significant way. Aside from the first turn rules, I don't know of any other complaints of the game that are universally agreed upon.

Wrong. Having been to multiple tournaments, the majority of top cutting players have laughed about how bad the format is. Sami Sekkoum comes to mind?
Think of it this way. If there's a rock/paper/scissors format (like at Cities), you have people complain that matchups are too "luck-of-the-draw." If there's a consistently tiered format (like we do now), you have people complain that a couple cards are "too good." If Stage 2s are dominating the format, you have people complain that their favorite legendaries are too weak. If Basic legendary Pokemon are dominating the format, you have people complain that Stage 2s are too weak.

Who says only three decks can be playable? There will always be cards which are 'too good'. But this way, they could do something about it and constantly change things around to make the game fresh. Very few people complain about stage 2's being too good, and basics not. I just don't get why the whole focus of Pokemon (evolving) is awful at the moment.
You're not going to stop people from whining and complaining about some part of the game, regardless of who designs the cards. :nonono:

I agree - but at the end of the day, you can stop a lot of it which is true. The top players will usually be better at determing what's good and bad for the game, and worst case scenario - they could ban/make a counter for it.---------- Post added 04/04/2012 at 05:39 PM ----------
Let me put it this way: How many people who won a States this year (in Masters, of course) have you heard complaining about Pokemon Catcher, Junk Arm, and Mewtwo EX?


None.

Well, if you asked top players if they preferred having Mewtwo EX & Pokemon Catcher in the format, you're telling me they'd say yes? The whole idea of Pokemon is to evolve them, make them better. Don't you think it's bad that not one stage 1/2 deck can even be made playable enough to do well? Mewtwo EX stops them evolving, and donks. Pokemon Catcher stops them evolving. Durant takes pretty much no skill, yet it's one of the top 3 decks at the moment. It's not just now - there's always something which is bad. Clearly, for Pokemon to make these cards, they don't know the game well enough.
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Off the back of my mind - Ban Catcher and Mewtwo EX. Make good cards slightly easier to pull like Mewtwo EX, so that way the poor aren't at a disadvantage. Person going first can use Trainers and Stadiums, not Supporters. Niether player can attack on their first turn to help prevent donks. You're telling me that wouldn't make this format better?
 
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Sweet said:
Off the back of my mind - Ban Catcher and Mewtwo EX. Make good cards slightly easier to pull like Mewtwo EX, so that way the poor aren't at a disadvantage. Person going first can use Trainers and Stadiums, not Supporters. Niether player can attack on their first turn to help prevent donks. You're telling me that wouldn't make this format better?
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Pull rates are an issue for marketing, not card designers.

IIRC Pokemon do a LOT of consultation with Japanese players (this is from reading Esa's Eye on Japan blog). If they were ever going to get player to help out in this way, that's where they would look for them.
 
In terms of format balance, the only card that makes this format "unbalanced" is pokemon catcher. It prevents set up decks from being played thus we have a format where you have to play extremely aggressive decks or get destroyed. Will that change in the future? Maybe, but at the moment the format is a catcher format. However, mewtwo itself is not a broken card at all, if anything its a card that adds skill to the game on when to use it as it is a huge double edged sword.

On the note of players being hired to do R&D for the game, it would help keep cards like pokemon catcher from being printed. I am willing to be many top tier players would retire from the game to do R&D.
 
I don't mind how it's done, just do something along those lines. I'd say at least 90% of people would prefer what I've just said, and I didn't even need to think about it.

The problem with going to Japanese players is that they play their own format - more players play ours. I'm not really sure how much difference there is between the two though.

---------- Post added 04/04/2012 at 02:45 PM ----------
SHPanda said:
In terms of format balance, the only card that makes this format "unbalanced" is pokemon catcher. It prevents set up decks from being played thus we have a format where you have to play extremely aggressive decks or get destroyed. Will that change in the future? Maybe, but at the moment the format is a catcher format. However, mewtwo itself is not a broken card at all, if anything its a card that adds skill to the game on when to use it as it is a huge double edged sword.

On the note of players being hired to do R&D for the game, it would help keep cards like pokemon catcher from being printed. I am willing to be many top tier players would retire from the game to do R&D.
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I agree, Pokemon Catcher is the worst card at the moment.
 
Catcher is the same problem as the original rare candy and holon transceiver was - you feel conned paying a lot of common for an uncommon.

Pokemon want some profit margin from each player, and each player has so much they are prepared to spend on the game. Given these variables does not mean that each player must be restricted to investing heavily in a single deck. I'd like to see an environment where players are able to experiment with lots of different deck strategies without having to invest in each deck. Transferrable staples is a sensible way to do this! If every deck needs staples like Mewtwo EX and trainers to function, and these cards are rare and hence expensive on the secondary market, Pokemon can take its profits through those cards, but leave the versatility to common cards. Techs being common/uncommon would go a way to addressing this. The problem is its always going to be the Pokemon themselves that get the ex/star/LvX/etc treatment not the energy cards.

Ideal ratio? Release a broken energy or trainer card that every deck should run 4 off (like transceiever), distribute it scarcely in each booster box (say 2 per box). Then the boxes sold per player ratio is under control (too high discourages players, too low lowers profits) by adjusting how many of this staple are in each box, but there is an abundance of the REST of the cards in play. Once you get these staples, all decks are equally viable to experiment with just by throwing commons together. Alternative art is a way of controlling this - each deck-viable Pokemon has a flashy holo version and a non-holo version for players. Is this absurd? Think back to the original sets - trainers were rares, even holos, and all Pokemon had a rare and holo counterpart. The result is the same profit margins but for players prepared to invest in the staples they are able to playtest and experience the game as a whole rather than buying a new deck every rotation.

On the testing note, I'm curious as to what the R+D process involves. I remember reading somewhere that during the delta era, Fearow delta had been planned as the big engine for delta decks but saw little use due to its non-delta basic. Do these R+D people have the metagame and deck concepts in mind or simply produce balanced cards to see what happens? Is there a dependence on scarcity of distribution affecting popularity and feasible decks, ie would the metagame be different if all cards were commons like playing online?
 
Mewtwo EX makes the format more defined, allowing great deckbuilders to truly shine. The fact that Mewtwo EX has effectively shrunk the metagame is a fresh change from the first half of the season, where matchups played a more important role on determining your tournament run. It's also great that vanilla lists of the two best decks in the format have pretty much a 50-50 matchup.

Also about Mewtwo EX: its play has taken a nosedive since the release of Dark Rush in Japan. Whereas decks used to need to play Mewtwo EX or counter it, now there are other viable decks in the format (in Japan).

In 2 months, we'll have threads complaining about how Dark Patch is too broken and should be banned, or how Tornadus EX's 60 damage on turn 1 makes certain decks unplayable, etc.
 
I'm confident other players and I could improve the tournament rules as well as PTCGO, as I have attempted to do so by posting here and on the official PTCGO forums. Unfortunately, PUI doesn't usually react very quickly to player demands and things that clearly need to be improved. (Why is 45 mins still acceptable for Best 2/3 anywhere?)

As for designing cards, that's all done in Japan. I doubt they're going to come to America seeking new card designers. One neat little idea they could implement, though is to allow tournament winners to design one card. The card obviously would have to be approved by the designers. Magic: The Gathering did this and it was really neat. Jon Finkel designed a card named Shadowmage Infiltrator, which actually featured his face on the character.

I've volunteered to help fix PTCGO and will always try to promote the game, but regarding the opportunity to work for Pokemon and not play, I've always thought Pokemon is a lot better of a hobby than a career. Besides, not too many people become wealthy through Pokemon.
 
Just submitting ideas to PLC wouldn't necesserly a good idea. If you look at the create a card forum, majority of the cards there are broken and unbalanced. Creating cards is very easy to do, but play testing cards and making the refinements is much more intensive. This is where I feel a select group of players could come in handy. The only way to make this format fair under first turn rules is to create more cards that benefit from being down on prizes. If things don't improve by this time next year then its very likely I'll quit when 2012/2013 season ends.
 
StormFront said:
Just submitting ideas to PLC wouldn't necesserly a good idea. If you look at the create a card forum, majority of the cards there are broken and unbalanced. Creating cards is very easy to do, but play testing cards and making the refinements is much more intensive. This is where I feel a select group of players could come in handy. The only way to make this format fair under first turn rules is to create more cards that benefit from being down on prizes. If things don't improve by this time next year then its very likely I'll quit when 2012/2013 season ends.
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People on CAC don't take long making them, and it's more of a fun thing to do.

If it was going to be made into a genuine card, and you were getting paid to do it, I'm sure a lot of thought would go into it when compared to your general CAC.
 
First of all not everyone wins tournaments. So let's say for masters there's 70 players there's only one who won, when things don't work out for the latter because either they couldn't afford the rest of there deck or it was just lopsided.
Personally I think sweet's idea is great. Put players in there who know how the meta rolls and that deal with the latter's troubles. Another thing is balance the cards stop giving cards that nobody wants. Let's say be bad boar that card is all or nothing, make less cards like that, and give each card a purpose instead of just filling a set. then we'll see more creativity among decks that really shows skill, instead of some cookie cutter deck. Like when building a fire you go find some good kindling to make it effective instead of just pouring kerosene on it lazy man style.
 
In every season there will be cards that create a problem. The price of Mewtwo isn't totally focused on pull ratios, but on supply and demand.

Say you didn't like tomatoes, you actually hate, but there were bunches and bunches of tomatoes in your market for $0.25 a pound. You prefer apples, and only apples, there is no exception to the fact that you only want apples. However, apples are very very rare in your market, people travel far away just to get them. So, apples are $5.37 a pound. It's cheaper to buy tomatoes and eat tomatoes, but I'm almost certain you would at least attempt to pay extra to get the apples you love.

(P.S. in this metaphor apples and tomatoes are the only foods that exist, so please don't try to buy carrots or bananas.)

In any case, if Mewtwo were not as popular it would not cost as much. Take Uxie and Claydol for example. They certainly did not start out selling at $50-60$ a piece, but once everyone wanted to play them the prices flew up quickly.

Unfortunately, not everyone can afford the cards they want. Not everyone can afford to travel to the tournaments they would like to. Economics plays a large factor in anything that is collectible as well as competitive. Popular cards will have higher prices that not everyone can afford.

On to the point of cards being "broken."

Some cards are better than others, simple as that. Is it fair? Not always. Will it change? Not likely. I've been playing for some over 7 years and have seen this argument placed on many cards, and sometimes go even as far as banning players who are "too good." Frankly, some people have more time and dedication to the game than others. Some people just have a natural talent for it, like anything else you might compete in. For example: while one person my be insanely good at pokemon, another may be by far be a top football star.

So yes, Mewtwo and Catcher are VERY good cards, but you can play around them. I have watched many players find ways to around the cards. Not everyone is able to do this. I myself am not talented at countering catcher, and this season I am not a player in high standings. I've won and lost my fair share of tournaments in the past. I've seen cards come and go, just as players have.

So, in the simplest terms I can think of... If you don't like the game, don't play. You can't lose if you aren't trying to win.
 
They should just begin making cards that counter cards. Simple as that. If Catcher is dominating the format, make a card that counters it. Maybe a card that you play from your hand to counter a trainer or something. Kind of like Power Spray but it blocks trainers, and you have to discard like 2 cards? Great way to counter Catcher, and really any other trainer that is OP in this format.
 
If you're creating a team of players to evaluate cards ideas on an official basis, you'll probably want to get a variety of opinions, not just top competitors. Too narrow a focus could limit the player base in the long term.
 
yoshi1001 said:
If you're creating a team of players to evaluate cards ideas on an official basis, you'll probably want to get a variety of opinions, not just top competitors. Too narrow a focus could limit the player base in the long term.
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Two problems with this -

1 - If you're going to choose a variety, how do you choose them fairly? It'd be much easier to do this with the elite players.

2 - They're usually good because they test a lot. If they're testing a lot, that means they'll know the format pretty well and can make good decisions because of it.
 
I think he meant in terms of like, creative perspective. He's worried that some players don't have a grasp for other things that could be important, such as rarity schemes or mechanics that casual players/collectors would like. Whoever on PCL thought of Pokemon-* and Pokemon-ex (the first time around) did a ton of good for the game: those added awesome collectible elements to the product, and kept that whole four year period free of much power creep.
 
Even if TPCi had players design cards, each format is going to have top decks and cards that some players determine to be "broken." While it may be reasonable for top players to also design cards, it would hardly eliminate the problem of the existence of different tiers of cards in the game.

Each format will have its top cards. It just so happens that this format's top card is $65. The Battle Roads/Nationals/Worlds format will also have top cards (Mewtwo EX won't even be that good anymore when Dark Explorers is realeased), and people will complain about those top cards as well. I can already envision threads where people whine about the price of Darkrai EX and Tornadus EX. Strong cards and strong combinations of cards will always exist, regardless of who designs the cards.

Getting top players to design cards won't solve the problem you describe. Moreover, I seriously doubt that the top players can do a better job than a dedicated Japanese R&D team of designing a game where there's a balanced top tier of decks.
 
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