Rainbowgym
Active Member
Sorry my English bad, don't understand that.
Also little problem with reading, cannot translate the word ***
Also little problem with reading, cannot translate the word ***
This just in... USA wins all 8 ratings invites from N.A.
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3 leters , starts with an "A" and ends with an "S" .... Oh , and the middle letter is the same as the last
Because they've done well at events and gained what PUI calls "Points" added to their rank. You see, each event has a "k" value. You gain points based on your win expectancy, your opponent's win expectancy, and the k value. Obviously, Florida has a huge amount of skilled players to have 3 in the top 10. We won every southeastern state championship too.
That's how it's possible.
[/smart***]
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Ohhhhhhhhh you mean a donkey, just why don't you say it that way?
Are there smart donkeys?
Are there smart donkeys?
badganondorf
New Member
I fully understand the Canada issue because here in Europe things are similiar to NA. I have to win every single match and every single tournament to get high enough with rankings. And as you can see from my signature my tournament record is insane. If I were somewhere with lots of players in Senior I would have at least ~ 2200 points. It's very hard here in Finland too but it's not impossible. As Squirtle already said you can get the points with being a consistant player.
I think that the Canadian players have the same problem as I do. If I lost a single match I would go 30 points down in rankings. So it really is very hard to players from countries with smaller playerbase. But isn't that obvious. You have to be the very best of your country if you have smaller playerbase. So people who live in countries with smaller playerbase than other countries in the same area has smaller chance to get to Worlds so it takes real skill to get to Worlds from that kind of countries. And isn't that why rankings are made for?
It's true too that ranking system has not only few flaws but they're all fixable and I hope that in future the Ranking System will develop but the fact is that it can't never satisfy everyone. But I think that PUI does great job with OP and I can't even imagine how hard they work for us players. Of course critising is always allowed but I don't like whining that everything is wrong because it isn't ok with you.
Just my 2 cents....
I think that the Canadian players have the same problem as I do. If I lost a single match I would go 30 points down in rankings. So it really is very hard to players from countries with smaller playerbase. But isn't that obvious. You have to be the very best of your country if you have smaller playerbase. So people who live in countries with smaller playerbase than other countries in the same area has smaller chance to get to Worlds so it takes real skill to get to Worlds from that kind of countries. And isn't that why rankings are made for?
It's true too that ranking system has not only few flaws but they're all fixable and I hope that in future the Ranking System will develop but the fact is that it can't never satisfy everyone. But I think that PUI does great job with OP and I can't even imagine how hard they work for us players. Of course critising is always allowed but I don't like whining that everything is wrong because it isn't ok with you.
Just my 2 cents....
Now, I don't have the statistics of the number of canadian and mexican players that have been at past Worlds, but I was thinking it might be quite low. If a japanese player comes to Worlds and defeats all the americans, can he truthfully say that the japanese are better than the americans? This is where I see your logic failing. You've only played Canadians at Worlds, in which there are only a few Canadian players there. You cannot say that the american players are better than the Canadian players without intensive testing of this theory within said country. Same goes for the mexican players. Because only a small percentage of players from both countries get to attend Worlds, many of the good players that might put up a better match are stuck at home.
Now, I'm not saying that the american players aren't better than the mexican and canadian players. The american players are some of the best players in the world, but it's impossible to know from just a few tournaments whether or not a country's players are better than another country's players. Especially when the few tournaments give some countries the pure number advantage. Even the best 2% of canadians on their best day mathmatically won't beat out the 50% of americans at the tournament. Luck and matchups determine who wins many games.
In conclusion, I wonder if the japanese sit back and think how better they are than the americans or if the austrians sit back and think about how better they are than the chinese. I only see one country doing this and honestly, I don't see it being needed. Play the game to play the game, not to brag about how much better you are from other people. Respect your opponents, at the table and a month later at home. Have fun! There's no need for anything more.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Pffffff 49-2 can also be a sign you have no competition around you, ever thought about that?
Speaking about invites, why isn't there no information at all about how many invites each country gets for Nationals?
This weekend the first Nationals are going to be played.
I know Germany has 2 for each agegroup.
Belgium there is no information about it, while they play Nationals Saturday.
Speaking about invites, why isn't there no information at all about how many invites each country gets for Nationals?
This weekend the first Nationals are going to be played.
I know Germany has 2 for each agegroup.
Belgium there is no information about it, while they play Nationals Saturday.
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badganondorf
New Member
Well in fact we have. And I wouldn't be playing the game with non-competition. And I won the best player from Norway too when I was playing in Sweden, so people who speaks about no competition around here should come and play here and THEN say something about competition.
And Prime, didn't GrandmaJoner went 8-0 last yeat at worlds on the first day. So it really is possible to Canadian 2% win 50% American players but as already said it's hard but not impossible.
Yes it's true that U.S.A. may have the largest amount of skilled player and yes they do deserve the trip to Worlds. And it's fine for me because I think they really deserve it but that doesn't mean that the Canadian or the Mexican players don't deserve the trip. They sure do but it takes a lot of effort to do that.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Well surprise, that's what we wanted to do, but
A. Your Battle Roads are CLOSED events.
B. I wanted to fly over this weekend, but was told that we only get a seat AFTER all players of Finland got a seat.
Maybe I can offer you a ticket to play overhere, because we don't do CLOSED events.
I don't know the competition in North Europe, but I looked around during my trips to other countries, and I do have a small impression about skills/competition
And, skill level varies from month-to-month. Example, how many US Nats TopX players made Worlds TopX? Pokemon is so laden with luck that on "any given weekend" high-caliber players hit-or-miss based on luck and correctly guessing the meta-game.
I look at it this way. The number of top-level players in the US is higher than any other country. Whether or not we have the best players compared to the rest of the World is debateable, but NOT the FACT that we have the MOST high-caliber players.
I look at it this way. The number of top-level players in the US is higher than any other country. Whether or not we have the best players compared to the rest of the World is debateable, but NOT the FACT that we have the MOST high-caliber players.
Guys, it's getting a little heated... all that can be realistically said is wait and see.
POP are saying that they are trying to improve the game, and they should be given a chance to do so. As for the US desrving most/all invites... there are a lot of skilled players around the world. If Americans seriously belive that to be the case, frankly, that says more about your bigotry then it does about others.
The US should get the majority of the invites - biggest market, most people playing (and a lot of skilled players too). But all of them? Please.
POP are saying that they are trying to improve the game, and they should be given a chance to do so. As for the US desrving most/all invites... there are a lot of skilled players around the world. If Americans seriously belive that to be the case, frankly, that says more about your bigotry then it does about others.
The US should get the majority of the invites - biggest market, most people playing (and a lot of skilled players too). But all of them? Please.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Dogma - it doesn't work that way.
In the past the only way to compare was 1 tournament: Worlds.
But with 80+ USA players and only 1 (sometimes 2) of each other country, it's not easy to compare.
(mix it with people facing a jetlag during this tournament)
Steve - I think with each new set coming out the skill level varies.
And yes if you live in a country with 260 mil. (don't know how many) people it's much easier to have the most high caliber players. Nobody will disagree with the fact the USA has to most high-caliber players.
In the past the only way to compare was 1 tournament: Worlds.
But with 80+ USA players and only 1 (sometimes 2) of each other country, it's not easy to compare.
(mix it with people facing a jetlag during this tournament)
Steve - I think with each new set coming out the skill level varies.
And yes if you live in a country with 260 mil. (don't know how many) people it's much easier to have the most high caliber players. Nobody will disagree with the fact the USA has to most high-caliber players.
@ Esa, there's a 150-point difference between you and the no2 of your country and ANOTHER 150 point gap between him and the no3. competition? i think not. IMHO this is why all nationals in Europe should be open, as outsiders can only watch your rating grow and they cant do nothing about it.
I hope this will change next year, furthermore I'd like to give big props to PUI for the GREAT improvement this year. thank you.
I hope this will change next year, furthermore I'd like to give big props to PUI for the GREAT improvement this year. thank you.
Lia, I was only referring to worlds, isn't that the only truly multinational tournament? (I'm not a player remember, you have to help me out :tongue: ). But if the US has the highest-calibre players, why shouldn't they get the most invites?
My issue was with certain people implying that the US deserved all of the invites. I think we can both agree that European/other countries also deserve a shot at the title. After all, they seem to be doing alright at worlds, if IIRC :wink:
Anyone who says that is either being sarcastic, or is just plain stupid.
Everyone should have an equal chance of getting to Worlds.
E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E
Equal representation at Worlds is divided into two categories, just like the US Congress is split into two houses. 1) equal representation for each state (satisfied by Nats qualifiers in various countries), and 2) equal representation for high-population OP regions (satisfied by the current premier ranking system).
Dogma, Lia was merely stating what I said in a previous post -- the US has the MOST high-caliber player, not that the US has the highest-caliber players. Two different meanings.
Dogma, Lia was merely stating what I said in a previous post -- the US has the MOST high-caliber player, not that the US has the highest-caliber players. Two different meanings.
SteveP, I'm confused, so I assume you mean that if you class players as 'skilled' and 'not-skilled', the majority of the 'skilled' players will be in the US. If so, that is my view too, sorry if I wasn't clear.
If that isn't what you mean, that please elaborate! As I myself said, 'if the US has the highest-calibre players, why shouldn't they get the most invites?'
If that isn't what you mean, that please elaborate! As I myself said, 'if the US has the highest-calibre players, why shouldn't they get the most invites?'
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Thnkx that explains it better.
Dogma - you need to know a bit of the history of OP to understand some issues.
I will try to explain, but it takes me a while to write it down in English.
tbc
How were/are invites spreaded.
2004 and 2005 countries outside North America got 1 paid trip + invite for Worlds to be earned at their Nationals (so only 1 shot)
But the had 3 invites without trip, so it happened 2 or even 3 players of a country really played at Worlds (but they paid their own way in).
Inside NA (at least in 2005/2006) all invites came with a trip. BUT not 1 trip at Nationals but 8-16.
On top of that the USA had around 50 GymChallenges who also gave a trip+invite for Worlds.
Before Worlds there was a tournament called LCQ aka Grinder who gave also 8 seats for the next day Worlds tournament (and it's not that easy for Europeans/Asians/Australians to travel all the way to the USA to play the grinder).
So how did it end up (don't shoot me if I get not the correct numbers)
In almost each agegroup there were 80 North Americans (I think 70 USA) , but only 1 (2)players of countries outside the USA.
(Japan had 8 players I think in 2006 and more in 2004/2005)
So is it really surpising that more American players ended top 4? Not really.
Also take in account most outside USA people had a jetlag of 6-10 hours, just traveled (the day before) for 12-18 hours by plane.
What I see happening over and over again, that some USA players think they have the best of the best only, which is simply not true.
Due to the total number of players in the USA it's normal there are more skilled players, but what would happen if only 2 USA players could compete at Worlds? Would they both take top 4 seats? I don't think so.
But we will never know.
NOw this year there is a difference in the spread of invites. NOT 80+++ Usa players will be playing Worlds.
Iso 128 invites there are only 64 invites, and I think 20 of them will be people of North America. Still 1/3 of the total field but not as many as the years before (which was 2/3 or even more).
There is something else, while in NA everybody gets a chance to play in as many events as he can attend, this is not the case in Europe.
Some countries are simply disclosing competition by closing several rating points giving events. Some countries have many events and no real competition so it's an easy go if there is only 1 or 2 good players. (but this can also happen in other regions except for closing events)
So the ranking is not really showing the best players of that region (regions are simply to big and most players never play each other).
Some countries will be sending 2 players to Worlds, not because they are such good players. But only because the distributor is willing to pay for 2 trips.
Steve is right about how invites in general are awarded, but there is a BUT
Invites by Op population are reasonable, therefor it's not wrong NA gets more than EU and EU gets more than Asia.
It's the way how you can earn them.
IF you are in a area with a lot of good/skilled players it's very difficult to get high in ranking ( I have some numbers I might post later on)
Also the amount of tournaments/attendance/ K value are important.
And all I can see now, it goes wrong outside the USA.
And I am not alone in this opinion, but I am the one who dares to say it out loud.
Yes the USA has more skilled players, but did each other country really had the chance to raise such base? NO.
Are the USA skilled players more skilled than others? NO, but there are more of them agreed. ( I hope I say it right).
There is a difference in my definition of skilled player.
There are players doing great with netdecks, for me those are not the real skilled players.
There are players doing great with netdecks which they tweaked for their metagame or personal needs, those are more or less skilled.
But the real skilled players are able to build a deck from scratch and win with it too.
And to be honest there are not that many players able to do that.
Off course it's impossible to have all original decks with only xxx amount of cards in the format.
This is only my opinion, it's not said this is the true definition.
All I can say, I am into this game for a long time and for some area's I know who are skilled players and who are not.
Do we have more skilled players in Europa as in the USA. NO not at this point.
But I think there are not as many real skilled players in the USA either. I think some gymmembers over-rate some areas and underrate others.
I hope this makes sense, it's really hard to explain why I disagree with some points.
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This is where I see your logic failing.
So what you are saying is that EVERY Competition is to be played for FUN??? It is for BRAGGING rights... You want to SHOWCASE that you are better than all others that have tried. Look at professional sports. Assume they play for FUN??? Endorsements, trophys, rings, Etc... would not even be needed if PLAYING FOR FUN were the case.
The only people that play for FUN are those who cant WIN!!!!
Welcome to the real world, bud!!
Jimmy
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