To many points for cities

[DarthPika]

Oh don't give us the, "but I had to win against good players" ploy. Jeez... for all you thinking it's hard to do at CC's and giving those of us who say you have it easy a hard time, it's even harder doing it at states/regs/nats (which seems to be what most of you are suggesting we do), where you DON'T have other chances to make up for a loss by just going to another event.

Zach, no harshness aimed at you, because I highly respect that you will play full events, with out dropping. I understand that it's a lot of work to get where you are. However, to suggest that it doesn't give you a HUGE advantage over those of us who aren't as lucky as to be able to go to so many CCs is silly. How do you know that those of us who simply can't go to the same number of events as you do, wouldn't do just as well, or better than you did?

I've noticed that most of the people who think the system is fine as is, are those who are able to attend a lot of events. I can guarantee that this would not be so if they were in the situation that my self, and many others are in.

 

[HypnosProjectHQ]

How do i not deserve an invite to worlds because i am ranked in the top 15 so far this season. I feel like my true skill level has been tested very much and far more than it will be at states or regionals. I have played against Austin Baggs once, Alex Brosseau twice, Jason Klaczynski twice, Dylan Bryan twice, Michael Reynolds four times, and Guy Bennet three times all players that are in the top 25 in North America!! Not to mention all of the other skilled players i have faced in tournaments. I have put a lot of work and dedication into being ranked #12 in NA at this point in the season and so have the other people in the top 25 or our ratings would not be so high. Sure i played in 4 events in the GA marathon but there were 100+ people every single day including a lot of the best players in the world. I may have went to more CC's than some people but for the marathon events to help my rating i had to do well day after day against multiple World, National and Regional champions so please tell me how my true skill level has not been tested? And just to make you feel better about the "Unfairness" that you think is going on right now you should know that i have not dropped from a single tournament and do not plan on doing so at any big event to "Protect my Rating" I am going to play every tournament to the end to try my best to win the most tournaments that i can. - Zach Bivens

People just don't understand. If you are abnle to play in marathons, you are either located near georgia, new jersey, or ontario... or are way loaded. If an area is going to have 12 cities, then every area should be getting 12 cities. I wouldn't be complaining if that were the case. Also, you may have played against some top players, and that does show your skill. I think that the entire season should matter... not just cities.

I'm done commenting now since no one understands and is sort of throwing me under the bus. Peace everyone. Dropping this now since even forum admins bash on me and my thoughts.

 

[PokePop]

I'm done commenting now since no one understands and is sort of throwing me under the bus. Peace everyone. Dropping this now since even forum admins bash on me and my thoughts.

Dude, no one is bashing you.
Disagreeing is not bashing.

Sorry that I'm not posting that I agree with you, but you can't expect everyone on the internet to agree with you.

Also, your point about how many events an area has is just plain wrong.
I held 4 CCs in South Jersey last year, no marathon.

I held 4 CCs in South Jersey this year.

They'd hold as many event in Georgia regardless of whether they held a marathon or not. It comes down to the player base supporting OP all through out the entire year at those locations.

If we could have coordinated among the other PTOs in the Jersey/Philly/NY areas, we could have held a series of 9 events too.
But would these have been new events created for a marathon?
No, They would have been CCs at locations that were having them anyway, just held in a string instead of spread out over a month and a half.

P!P does not say to a TO, "oh, you're having a marathon? Here's 4 extra CC kits for you to run, then!"
No. An area has the same number of events whether they hold a marathon or not.

So then it gets back to "how does an area get more events held nearby?"
And it gets back to what people don't want to hear.
Someone has to step up and help grow the local player base that will support more events.
That's it.
Period.
No more, no less.

 

[Jaeger]

So then it gets back to "how does an area get more events held nearby?"
And it gets back to what people don't want to hear.
Someone has to step up and help grow the local player base that will support more events.
That's it.
Period.
No more, no less.

OMG will you stop throwing this in our face, this isn't always possible and you know it! No matter what I do I will never get Iowa to throw as many cities as Cali, FL, GA etc. There is multible ways to curve or limit the impact cities so people who can't attend 10+ aren't at a disadvantage.

 

[gallade]

Hasn't their skill level been proved?

This argument is kind of silly. If there is no one good in my area, just a TON of newer players, and i sweep, does that make me better than someone that has very few tournaments, with big competition?

 

[DarthPika]

OMG will you stop throwing this in our face, this isn't always possible and you know it! No matter what I do I will never get Iowa to throw as many cities as Cali, FL, GA etc. There is multible ways to curve or limit the impact cities so people who can't attend 10+ aren't at a disadvantage.

The same goes for MD. The fact that the largest two leagues in our state, that do a BOAT LOAD of work to support the game, still only get us 2 CC's should say something. We have a few other leagues, and people doing stuff, and that STILL isn't enough.

 

[kwisdumb]

Although I respect a lot of the people and arguments present in this discussion, I'm not really seeing why this has gone on for so long.

Some areas are better than others, some are worse. You can't put a limit on the number of Cities people attend. You can't stop people from dropping. You can't become a hard-working PTO without sacrificing time as a player. You can't please everyone, and it's never going to be fair.

 

[Austino]

Oh don't give us the, "but I had to win against good players" ploy. Jeez... for all you thinking it's hard to do at CC's and giving those of us who say you have it easy a hard time, it's even harder doing it at states/regs/nats (which seems to be what most of you are suggesting we do), where you DON'T have other chances to make up for a loss by just going to another event.

Zach, no harshness aimed at you, because I highly respect that you will play full events, with out dropping. I understand that it's a lot of work to get where you are. However, to suggest that it doesn't give you a HUGE advantage over those of us who aren't as lucky as to be able to go to so many CCs is silly. How do you know that those of us who simply can't go to the same number of events as you do, wouldn't do just as well, or better than you did?

I've noticed that most of the people who think the system is fine as is, are those who are able to attend a lot of events. I can guarantee that this would not be so if they were in the situation that my self, and many others are in.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. EACH event at the marathon is the equivalent if not harder than STATES. 70+ masters with over half of them being Top Tier players from across the US. It isn't just a bunch of traveling schmucks, it's Klaczynski, Big Chuck, Jayson Harry, Pooka, Moss, Alvis, Vergel, Bianchi, the Roll's, Silvestros, Sablehaus' bros, Stefan Tabaco, Gabe, Borchardt, just to name a few. Don't judge a GA Marathon CC event as a City, but as a real test of skill and highly concentrated high-end competition. The people attending these events and walking out close to an invite ARE earning them.

 

[kwisdumb]

Oh don't give us the, "but I had to win against good players" ploy. Jeez... for all you thinking it's hard to do at CC's and giving those of us who say you have it easy a hard time, it's even harder doing it at states/regs/nats (which seems to be what most of you are suggesting we do), where you DON'T have other chances to make up for a loss by just going to another event.

What are you even talking about? The marathon is obviously not just a regular CC, and you would know that if you paid attention to what the attendance was like, who was there, etc. Y'know, if you actually spent a little bit of time learning about the topic you're trying to discuss? =\

EDIT: Oh, didn't see Austin's post above mine. All apologies.

 

[PokePop]

This argument is kind of silly. If there is no one good in my area, just a TON of newer players, and i sweep, does that make me better than someone that has very few tournaments, with big competition?

Are you maintaining that anyone in the top tier of ranked players falls into this category?

 

[DarthPika]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. EACH event at the marathon is the equivalent if not harder than STATES. 70+ masters with over half of them being Top Tier players from across the US. It isn't just a bunch of traveling schmucks, it's Klaczynski, Big Chuck, Jayson Harry, Pooka, Moss, Alvis, Vergel, Bianchi, the Roll's, Silvestros, Sablehaus' bros, Stefan Tabaco, Gabe, Borchardt, just to name a few. Don't judge a GA Marathon CC event as a City, but as a real test of skill and highly concentrated high-end competition. The people attending these events and walking out close to an invite ARE earning them.

Dude, I've played against most of these players at some point or another. It's not that big a deal, so stop acting so high and mighty about it. You seem to forget that if you lose to them at nats, that is. You're done, it's over. To even have a chance to get an invite off of states/regs/nats, you need a nearly perfect run, where as CC's allow for a significantly larger margin for error.

 

[Jaeger]

POP you got it wrong I'm not questioning their skill, I'm questioning the fairness of the system. Let me ask you question

Do you think that we would have the exact same people at the top of the rankings had everybody played in the same number of cities?
Do you believe that attending an unrealistic number of cities does not give a player an advantage?

Secondly I would like to point out that even though that some of these events might be the size of a small states with so many of them one or two bad performances won't kill them. Doing bad at 1 states out of two will shoot yourself in the foot, doing bad in one cities out of 9, there is still plenty of room for recovery.

Hey Pop what about my questions?

 

[kwisdumb]

@DP: The idea is that, out of 50-70 masters, an extraordinarily high number of those (17 just in Austin's post above, and he leaves out several names) are great players, making it more difficult than an event where all of those players are in attendance, but so are hundreds of others.

 

[Jaeger]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. EACH event at the marathon is the equivalent if not harder than STATES. 70+ masters with over half of them being Top Tier players from across the US. It isn't just a bunch of traveling schmucks, it's Klaczynski, Big Chuck, Jayson Harry, Pooka, Moss, Alvis, Vergel, Bianchi, the Roll's, Silvestros, Sablehaus' bros, Stefan Tabaco, Gabe, Borchardt, just to name a few. Don't judge a GA Marathon CC event as a City, but as a real test of skill and highly concentrated high-end competition. The people attending these events and walking out close to an invite ARE earning them.

Nobody is saying that they are easy tournaments (I'm also not saying that they are the epitome that your making them out to be)

My complaints are simple

-Attending large numbers of cities is obivously an advantage, one that not all players have (heck I don't even think you can deny this)
-One bad perfermonce can be off set my the large number of events (this is why I get irratied when people say it doesn't matter it start balancing around states, it doesn't fyi) didn't you go 3-2 at two different tournaments out there? I had one 3-2 and it just about killed me, while you had multible other tournaments to off set them. So don't say its like States, because if you have an off day at one states you don't have another 8 of them to go to make up for it.


I guess I've always seen Cities as a way to Cushion your rating go into States and Reg so one meh day doesn't kill you not as a reason to sit them out.

 

[yoshi1001]

If I may make an observation, I think it is possible to argue that marathons actually hurt the local tournaments by drawing players away from local events, even if they don't fall in the same time range. It probably doesn't affect them going to the one or two close to where they live, but it might reduce their chances of going to ones within a medium-sized drive in favor of the marathon.

 

[Austino]

Dude, I've played against most of these players at some point or another. It's not that big a deal, so stop acting so high and mighty about it. You seem to forget that if you lose to them at nats, that is. You're done, it's over. To even have a chance to get an invite off of states/regs/nats, you need a nearly perfect run, where as CC's allow for a significantly larger margin for error.

At one point or another isn't even CLOSE to all of them at the same event 6-8 times in a row.

Nobody is saying that they are easy tournaments (I'm also not saying that they are the epitome that your making them out to be)

It was a response to DP:

Oh don't give us the, "but I had to win against good players" ploy. Jeez... for all you thinking it's hard to do at CC's and giving those of us who say you have it easy a hard time, it's even harder doing it at states/regs/nats

 

[PokePop]

Hey Pop what about my questions?

These particular questions are loaded and fairly unanswerable. Common debating technique: create a false choice.

Do you think that we would have the exact same people at the top of the rankings had everybody played in the same number of cities?

When? Now? Maybe, maybe not. I think you'd probably have most, if not all, of these players at or near the top of the rankings by the end of the season either way, which is the whole point of the ratings.

Do you believe that attending an unrealistic number of cities does not give a player an advantage?

As opposed to someone attending an unrealistically small number of tournaments? (note I say "tournaments", not just "cities")? Sure, it's an advantage. It's a loaded question. However, I believe that if someone attends a moderate number of Cities and then makes up for it at the bigger events that are available, they can make up the ground.

Secondly I would like to point out that even though that some of these events might be the size of a small states with so many of them one or two bad performances won't kill them. Doing bad at 1 states out of two will shoot yourself in the foot, doing bad in one cities out of 9, there is still plenty of room for recovery.

Well, that's the balance, isn't it?

Many events to grind out the points to get a good rating, or few, large events that have a larger reward and can earn a player a big rating all in one shot. Your position is that one is fair and the other unfair.
The position can be reversed. A player that did well at a dozen events could call it unfair that a player coming into the ratings late can sweep one event and catapult themselves over those players that have been supporting OP week after week, month after month.

 

[PokePop]

If I may make an observation, I think it is possible to argue that marathons actually hurt the local tournaments by drawing players away from local events, even if they don't fall in the same time range. It probably doesn't affect them going to the one or two close to where they live, but it might reduce their chances of going to ones within a medium-sized drive in favor of the marathon.

Congratulations on bringing up a valid point!

This is one reason that I tried running a marathon myself this year. To give a balanced opportunity to my local players.

 

[Box of Fail]

It seems like most of the whining in this thread is done by players who think, "what can I do to make MY shot at worlds fairer? I'm so skilled but I might miss my invite because I don't have equal opportunity to do well NO FAIR TAKE HIS POINTS AWAY" etc etc

 

[DarthPika]

Says someone who was able to go to the GA marathon... Care to prove what I said earlier anymore?