Top 16 report. 0-2 to epic Primetime Yamato rematch!
- Thread starter Pidgeotto Trainer
- Start date
Pooka
Master Trainer
Any reason why you decided to go Mismagius over Dialga? In testing I found Dialga to be incredibly useful against Flygon and pretty much every Stage 2 deck. I also tried out Banette PT, which is actually a very solid card, but does require two Energy to attack. At any rate, congrats on winning a little more scholarship money! Oh, and thanks for saving the softball game for us. 
I'm with Pooka! Dialga would have been an ALLSTAR this weekend. The card had been testing extremely well for me. Had I not felt Flygon Machamp to be such a strong play, I would have gone Palkia Dialga Luxray for sure. I wish I would have gotten to see the entire series with Yamato. I am such a nerd, I love watching good games of Pokemon.
If you think Dialga is bad vs Flygon, you clearly were not using Dialga correctly.
Your overlooking that Dialga also gains significant strength in mirror match, and Machamp, and other random matchups where the anti-body body becomes clutch. Mismagius is really only "good" vs Mewtwo. I guess it is ok vs "memory berry" but really memory berry rarely factors into the Palkia matchup when they don't use Claydol. Dialga might force a two hit KO of the Mewtwo, but it is 10x better vs the rest of the field, at WORST being a legitimate secondary attacker as long as your willing to tweak your energy appropriately.
Your overlooking that Dialga also gains significant strength in mirror match, and Machamp, and other random matchups where the anti-body body becomes clutch. Mismagius is really only "good" vs Mewtwo. I guess it is ok vs "memory berry" but really memory berry rarely factors into the Palkia matchup when they don't use Claydol. Dialga might force a two hit KO of the Mewtwo, but it is 10x better vs the rest of the field, at WORST being a legitimate secondary attacker as long as your willing to tweak your energy appropriately.
Pidgeotto Trainer
New Member
Dialga is a deadweight. It is just a mediocre attacker unless you load it with 2-3 special metals. So now you're talking about adding a 1-1 Dialga, 1 basic metal and at least 3 special metal. That's at least 6 cards to only have another trick against Machamp (which probably doesn't change the 5050 matchup status), to beat random stuff like Ampharos which didn't appear, and to have another toy vs mirror which I don't think helps much at all. Palkia can be offensive getting draw+Mesprit and keeping the azelf lock and it also breaks the opponent's azelf lock while Dialga can only break the opposing lock.
I played only a couple games of trying a DPL list but it only reconfirmed that Dialga was just a usually unnecessary third line that took up 6-7 cards! It doesn't nearly warrant that many cards. I hated some of the things you told me you did to your list, Chris. Mainly the 1 Power Spray. You have 2 greatly disruptive cards in Luxray and Palkia, and a not disruptive one in Dialga.
As for just a 1-1 Dialga and 1 basic Metal over 1-1 Mismagius and 1 Bebe, with no sp metal I think the Dialga would only get used vs Mewtwo. Maybe I'd find a great situation to use deafen or something, but I'd be afraid of Flygon/Mewtwos finding a way to keep the Mewtwo alive and snipe the Dialga x. There are no energy I could drop from this list for special metals. 4 Water 2 Lightning 1 Psychic 4 Call, there's no where to drop. The Dialga body isn't so good when you have to attack with it without special metals. If it had free retreat it would be the obvious play.
Kyle, we had thought of Banette as well. Mismagius is definitely a better Mewtwo counter though I wonder if Banette could come up better in other random spots. My guess is it still wouldn't be used 95% of the time but I didn't test it. Although we thought maybe the 2nd Mismagius attack could be great in an odd spot too.
I'll respond to the other posts soon, thanks everyone.
I played only a couple games of trying a DPL list but it only reconfirmed that Dialga was just a usually unnecessary third line that took up 6-7 cards! It doesn't nearly warrant that many cards. I hated some of the things you told me you did to your list, Chris. Mainly the 1 Power Spray. You have 2 greatly disruptive cards in Luxray and Palkia, and a not disruptive one in Dialga.
As for just a 1-1 Dialga and 1 basic Metal over 1-1 Mismagius and 1 Bebe, with no sp metal I think the Dialga would only get used vs Mewtwo. Maybe I'd find a great situation to use deafen or something, but I'd be afraid of Flygon/Mewtwos finding a way to keep the Mewtwo alive and snipe the Dialga x. There are no energy I could drop from this list for special metals. 4 Water 2 Lightning 1 Psychic 4 Call, there's no where to drop. The Dialga body isn't so good when you have to attack with it without special metals. If it had free retreat it would be the obvious play.
Kyle, we had thought of Banette as well. Mismagius is definitely a better Mewtwo counter though I wonder if Banette could come up better in other random spots. My guess is it still wouldn't be used 95% of the time but I didn't test it. Although we thought maybe the 2nd Mismagius attack could be great in an odd spot too.
I'll respond to the other posts soon, thanks everyone.
I 100% support the use of Special Metals in the deck! I will guarantee you that a PDL list with 3-4 special metals is 75-25 vs any other Palkia variant. It also wins you the Kingdra matchup, and your Machamp matchup is certainly better than 50-50 ( straight machamp..."turbo", whatever. )
Mismagius is good ONLY vs Mewtwo. It is better vs Mewtwo than Dialga is, but DIalga is 10x better than Mismagius in ANY other matchup.
I haven't been at 1 Power Spray since Regionals, either. I had upped it to 2, and 3 Mesprit, in order to help the LuxApe matchup, and to break rival Mesprit locks. I was toying with going 2 Mesprit, 3 Power Spray before the event. The main point being that you can fit 5 power lock cards, split them however you feel.
The energy I was running was:
4 Call
2 Water
1 Lightning
1 Psychic
3 Special Metal
3 SP
That ran fine. My build has a much better end game, but admittedly isn't as disruptive. They have different play styles. I think your underrating how Dialga can influence your deck's options.
Mismagius is good ONLY vs Mewtwo. It is better vs Mewtwo than Dialga is, but DIalga is 10x better than Mismagius in ANY other matchup.
I haven't been at 1 Power Spray since Regionals, either. I had upped it to 2, and 3 Mesprit, in order to help the LuxApe matchup, and to break rival Mesprit locks. I was toying with going 2 Mesprit, 3 Power Spray before the event. The main point being that you can fit 5 power lock cards, split them however you feel.
The energy I was running was:
4 Call
2 Water
1 Lightning
1 Psychic
3 Special Metal
3 SP
That ran fine. My build has a much better end game, but admittedly isn't as disruptive. They have different play styles. I think your underrating how Dialga can influence your deck's options.
butlerforhire
New Member
Crash Chant can be an effective surprise against SPs too, not just Mewtwo lv. X, especially with Azelf MT already making all of the opponent's attacks cost C more.
Shino Bug Master
Front Page News Editor
Dialga G shuts off Azelf MT. Given toolboxes and Flygon primarily run Mewtwoyou'd either loose Dialga to Extreme Attack or allow the normal attack cost. Which would make it huge fodder for Ape. Plus Magius can discard their tools.
Al reasons i can see. Great job regardless man!
Al reasons i can see. Great job regardless man!
sdrawkcab
Forum Moderator
Hey Ross, guess I didn't catch you at the airport this year ;p. Great run, I'm always glad to hear you doing well.
Chris, Dilaga doesn't help at all with the flygon match up. It becomes more of a liability sitting on the bench as flygon x could simply snipe it when ever it felt like unleashing the apocolops.
Chris, Dilaga doesn't help at all with the flygon match up. It becomes more of a liability sitting on the bench as flygon x could simply snipe it when ever it felt like unleashing the apocolops.
What would a DGX be doing hanging on the bench to be sniped? Makes no sense. Yes, Dialga is great vs Flygon, just has to be in multiples and the level up can't come until you succeed with the active Gon x KO. Me and Chris ran the match hundreds of times. You people are out of your minds.
Pidgeotto Trainer
New Member
You can also ko a Flygon x with a Palkia x the turn you level up, and keep a power lock going.
The extra 3 sp metals in that energy count, Chris is a significant investment that I don't think is needed. They are somewhat different decks as I definitely focus on power lock. I hate even going down to 3 spray, a single spray or mesprit changes games all the time. Playing 5 power stoppers in PALKIA is nuts. The only reason to play Palkia is so you can play 8 power stoppers. If you want to play closer to 4, play something like Luxape which has more attack power in exchange.
Fwiw I hate sp energies too. I played a list like that for my dpl and it would be like, 'oh I can't get a Lightning, oh I can't get a 2nd metal for dgx, oh I'm out of water... Even with Claydol, you can't draw enough to rely on the sp energies.
The extra 3 sp metals in that energy count, Chris is a significant investment that I don't think is needed. They are somewhat different decks as I definitely focus on power lock. I hate even going down to 3 spray, a single spray or mesprit changes games all the time. Playing 5 power stoppers in PALKIA is nuts. The only reason to play Palkia is so you can play 8 power stoppers. If you want to play closer to 4, play something like Luxape which has more attack power in exchange.
Fwiw I hate sp energies too. I played a list like that for my dpl and it would be like, 'oh I can't get a Lightning, oh I can't get a 2nd metal for dgx, oh I'm out of water... Even with Claydol, you can't draw enough to rely on the sp energies.
ChicoBlanco
New Member
hey Ross.. congrats on your playing
i focused on my next games to try to boost your resistance and ended up winning my next 4 (not proud of it though, since 3/4 were Palkia mirrors, and I just got a better start)
but it turned out you made it anyway...
I was way stoked to see that you made the Top cut :thumb:
PS: haha.. i'm embarresed about my misplay. not that it really mattered anyway at that point (my only hope by then was if you didn't have a Mewtwo counter hah) but just because I played incorrectly.
but its all good.... stuff like that is good to learn from.
but yea, always an honor to play vs you, i look forward to more good games in the future
-ian b
i focused on my next games to try to boost your resistance and ended up winning my next 4 (not proud of it though, since 3/4 were Palkia mirrors, and I just got a better start)
but it turned out you made it anyway...
I was way stoked to see that you made the Top cut :thumb:
PS: haha.. i'm embarresed about my misplay. not that it really mattered anyway at that point (my only hope by then was if you didn't have a Mewtwo counter hah) but just because I played incorrectly.
but its all good.... stuff like that is good to learn from.
but yea, always an honor to play vs you, i look forward to more good games in the future
-ian b
The way I played Palkia was very different that a Palkia lock deck. I looked at Palkia as being much closer to a rainbow SP deck with the ability to be disruptive in order to achieve comebacks and midgame lockdowns that allow it to the win war of attrition.
Unless their hand is particularly weak, I rarely invest in wasting my power locks in the early game. The only matchup I feel PDL is weaker in than Plock is vs LuxApe, and I'll gladly take the superior "mirror" and "palkia lock" edge that the dialga offers since Palkia Lock is superior to LuxApe in the first place. I also feel your Machamp matchup is more favorable as well. And Gengar.
In testing vs Flygon with Martin, it wound up about 60% in favor of PDL, but all of the games were close ( There were a few blowouts of course, more in favor of Palkia capitlizing on a bad hand )
Unless their hand is particularly weak, I rarely invest in wasting my power locks in the early game. The only matchup I feel PDL is weaker in than Plock is vs LuxApe, and I'll gladly take the superior "mirror" and "palkia lock" edge that the dialga offers since Palkia Lock is superior to LuxApe in the first place. I also feel your Machamp matchup is more favorable as well. And Gengar.
In testing vs Flygon with Martin, it wound up about 60% in favor of PDL, but all of the games were close ( There were a few blowouts of course, more in favor of Palkia capitlizing on a bad hand )