Toxicroak AoA

[aade8]

Is there a way to make this card work? Should it be by itself or is there a partner out there who compliments his strengths?

This thread is probably going to die, but what the hey.

Since translations came out, I have been really intrigued by Toxicroak. The potential to do T2 60 plus Poison is very alluring. Add Expert Belt to that, and you have a potent attacker. Multi Energy and/or Rainbow is a must here (especially if Call is in the mix as well and it was used on your Croagunk T1). The MT Croagunk has a pretty good C attack (all be it flippy) where you have the chance to not allow your opponent to use any supporters.

I was thinking about adding one Toxicroak MT to increase the pester of Poison, and maybe even Toxicroak G (Promo) because I like to put it in everything =). I even gave Weezing GE a glance (yeah...).

I was thinking a Dusk Ball/Pokeradars to get Toxicroak going quickly, Expert Belt for power and HP, maybe Buffer Piece as well (might be able to force Gyarados into a 2HKO instead of 1).

I don't know, any ideas?

 

[Napoleon]

4-4 Croak
2 Croak SP
1 Skuntank G
1 Croak Promo

Bob's your uncle. Croaktank with Toxi G as secondary damage dealer and Croak Promo as revenger.

 

[Ariadosman]

Why use Toxicorak when a a lot of other stuff has a lot better HP and energy-to-damage ratio? (e.g. Kingdra)

 

[tehmoe]

Why use Toxicorak when a a lot of other stuff has a lot better HP and energy-to-damage ratio? (e.g. Kingdra)

cause its a stage 1 and doesn't get locked by spiritomb, also doesn't get on shot by luay gl so idk why not. its also very underrated card and looks pretty promising.

 

[nnaann]

cause its a stage 1 and doesn't get locked by spiritomb, also doesn't get on shot by luay gl so idk why not. its also very underrated card and looks pretty promising.

Kingdra > Toxicroak. Regardless of Kingdra being a Stage 2, it's still faster - out T1/2. Toxicroak is T2/3 if the energy drop is missed T1. Kingdra doesn't lose to Luxray automatically, if anything Toxicroak is overated. Why play a card which needs more energy to do less damage with lower HP?

 

[TheGeneral]

Kingdra > Toxicroak. Regardless of Kingdra being a Stage 2, it's still faster - out T1/2. Toxicroak is T2/3 if the energy drop is missed T1. Kingdra doesn't lose to Luxray automatically, if anything Toxicroak is overated. Why play a card which needs more energy to do less damage with lower HP?

WhY nots playee Muuchamp thEn hunhh???

Your arguement why he shouldn't play Toxicroak is horrible. tehmoe said it best--the spiritomb makes stage 2's ridiculously hard to get out. I'd LOVE to see you get a T2 Kingdra out when I have a spiritomb active. No candies, quick balls, poke radars, dusk balls, pokedex...yeah, your point is horrible. Toxicroak is MUCH easier to get out T2 because it's a stage 1. Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

WhY nots playee Muuchamp thEn hunhh???

Your arguement why he shouldn't play Toxicroak is horrible. tehmoe said it best--the spiritomb makes stage 2's ridiculously hard to get out. I'd LOVE to see you get a T2 Kingdra out when I have a spiritomb active. No candies, quick balls, poke radars, dusk balls, pokedex...yeah, your point is horrible. Toxicroak is MUCH easier to get out T2 because it's a stage 1. Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point.

Just disagree and say you disagree.

Don't turn it into an argument with language like this: "... is a ridiculous point."

You did a great job making your case before the words "horrible" and "ridiculous" hit the screen.

Keep it civil please.

Thank you.

 

[nnaann]

WhY nots playee Muuchamp thEn hunhh???

Your arguement why he shouldn't play Toxicroak is horrible. tehmoe said it best--the spiritomb makes stage 2's ridiculously hard to get out. I'd LOVE to see you get a T2 Kingdra out when I have a spiritomb active. No candies, quick balls, poke radars, dusk balls, pokedex...yeah, your point is horrible. Toxicroak is MUCH easier to get out T2 because it's a stage 1. Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point.

:lol: No good Kingdra list runs any of those trainers aside from Rare Candy, you must be testing against bad lists if your opponents are playing those. Kingdra lists run 3-4 BTS which gets around that, along with 3 Seadra - which with Crobat G + Belt + Discard of Water easily can KO a Spiritomb, which damages itself also after using it's first attack. Thats if you can get Spiritomb out in time, because I can Rare Candy into Kingdra T1 if you don't start with it and burn through any other trainers.

How is that a ridiculos point, if it has a bad impact on the deck? It is very possible to start with Uxie/Baltoy/Unown G and not draw into the Warp Point or go to go first and attach an energy to it.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

WhY nots playee Muuchamp thEn hunhh???

Your arguement why he shouldn't play Toxicroak is horrible. tehmoe said it best--the spiritomb makes stage 2's ridiculously hard to get out. I'd LOVE to see you get a T2 Kingdra out when I have a spiritomb active. No candies, quick balls, poke radars, dusk balls, pokedex...yeah, your point is horrible. Toxicroak is MUCH easier to get out T2 because it's a stage 1. Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point.

... You play Kingdra's that play them Trainers.... Um... Well... How do I put this.

No Kingdra list plays them other than Rare Candy. Ever heard of... BTS...? Most Kingdras play 4 of the beast. Making your Spiritomb point a bit bad. Most people ( If they play 1 or 2 Sprirtomb ) Can't get it out turn 1. Yes it does happen but it tends to be turn 2 or even 3. They either have to Call for it or if they go 1st and can't Roseanne's for it.

I'd love to see YOU get out Spiritomb while I've happily got my Kingdra active Pumping away. Once a Kingdra's out Spiritomb is gone. I agree Spirtomb does make an impact but Kingdra isn't like any other stage 2 deck. It does play a 4-3-4 line and 4 BTS & 4 Candy. Most Stage 2 decks are not like that.

If it's a bad point explain why...? The fact is it DOES get it out turn 1-2. If not it's a bad list and Kingdra fails.

And just for the thread: Gyardos is better. Simples.:wink:

 

[arMILO]

well this went south prety fast haha
the point is, he wants to play the toxicroak because he likes it, if he wanted to play kingdra or gyrados, he would.

now as the main intent of the thread, i heard someone at my cities AoA PR saying they wanted to play it with banette, the ghost head one. i don't see any synergy other than placing damage with ghost head and the poison for the croaks 2nd attack. but it's something you might want to think about.

 

[baby mario]

And just for the thread: Gyardos is better. Simples.:wink:

Yep.

Any Stage 1 deck not called Gyarados has big problems. They are slower than Basics and don't have the big HP and big hits of Stage 2s.

Spiritomb will slow down Stage 2 and SP decks, but the whole point of running a Stage 1 over a Stage 2 deck is so you can rush your opponent. If you are just going to sit there behind Spiritomb for a few turns . . . well, I would probably want something a bit better than a 90 HP Pokemon that does 60 + Poison for my trouble.

Toxicroak isn't a terrible Pokemon though (even though he can't use Call Energy . . . blah). If you are going to try it out, I recommend some kind of rush deck. Corner the Defending Pokemon T1, Then just swarm with them and try for the quick win. The idea of some kind of all-Toxicroak list is pretty good.

 

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Any Stage 1 deck not called Gyarados has big problems.

But what about turn 2 Bibaral???

But yeah you have hit it on the nail. Basics are fast. Stage 2's are Powerfull. So Gyardos is mainly the best stage 1.

 

[Ariadosman]

WhY nots playee Muuchamp thEn hunhh???

Your arguement why he shouldn't play Toxicroak is horrible. tehmoe said it best--the spiritomb makes stage 2's ridiculously hard to get out. I'd LOVE to see you get a T2 Kingdra out when I have a spiritomb active. No candies, quick balls, poke radars, dusk balls, pokedex...yeah, your point is horrible. Toxicroak is MUCH easier to get out T2 because it's a stage 1. Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point.

oh my god....

why the need to be so harsh? You say "Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point" and don't even explain yourself. nnaann wasn't being angry at anyone so why the need to be harsh and defend your holy-saviour-toxicroak so righteously? You sound like you are competing in a Debating team. As Ness once said, "a lot of people on the gym think they're good at arguing, but they just like to argue".

I will now calmly explain my views as to why Kingdra is better, otherwise I'll probably get a mega-super-infraction for this post and get perma-banned. I think you are underestimating Kingdra's ability to be bale to deal just 50 damage under a trainer lock (remember, Spirtomb damages itself with its attack). I have played Kingdra against Gengar quite a bit and it's not difficult to set up a Turn 2 Kingdra, or at least a Seadra able to KO a 50 HP pokemon- after a pitch Dark, so I would imagine Spiritomb is no different. Apart from being slightly more vunerable to Spiritomb, Kingdra is better than Toxicroak in almost every way. 1 for 80 is better than 2 for 60 + poison, and 130 HP is better than 90. Sure, Kingdra is a Stage 2, but the speed and consistency lost by being a Stage 2 is made up for by needing one less energy to attack.

 

[evil miltank]

We get the point that Kingdra is better then toxicroak, and alot more is probally better then toxicroak too. Now stop talking about kingdra and just talk about toxicroak and how to make it work. Anyways, I like the idea of the toxicroak G's. What about a 1-1/2-2 line of breloom? Or maybe muk? They are both under rated stage 1's so try looking into them.

 

[TheGeneral]

oh my god....

why the need to be so harsh? You say "Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point" and don't even explain yourself. nnaann wasn't being angry at anyone so why the need to be harsh and defend your holy-saviour-toxicroak so righteously? You sound like you are competing in a Debating team. As Ness once said, "a lot of people on the gym think they're good at arguing, but they just like to argue".

I will now calmly explain my views as to why Kingdra is better, otherwise I'll probably get a mega-super-infraction for this post and get perma-banned. I think you are underestimating Kingdra's ability to be bale to deal just 50 damage under a trainer lock (remember, Spirtomb damages itself with its attack). I have played Kingdra against Gengar quite a bit and it's not difficult to set up a Turn 2 Kingdra, or at least a Seadra able to KO a 50 HP pokemon- after a pitch Dark, so I would imagine Spiritomb is no different. Apart from being slightly more vunerable to Spiritomb, Kingdra is better than Toxicroak in almost every way. 1 for 80 is better than 2 for 60 + poison, and 130 HP is better than 90. Sure, Kingdra is a Stage 2, but the speed and consistency lost by being a Stage 2 is made up for by needing one less energy to attack.

*AHEM*

If you didn't read, the initial question was talking about how to make this card work, not "choose this deck because it is better." That is a bad point to make. And FYI, I've won a tournament with Kingdra. I love my build and it has top cut for me a couple times...so for anyone to say I don't know how to play it...well, that's your opinion. I was only trying to say that saying toxicroak is inferior to certain decks is a bad way to HELP this guys post.

 

[amphy#1]

Since you are running it with Toxicroak G, you can mabee do a 2-2 line of Mightyena PL with Queen. That should be fast.

 

[slayer_chaos]

The only way I see this working is in a Four Corners style deck with expert belt. Or if you need a fighting tech in a deck that already runs 4x Rainbow Energy.

 

[Box of Fail]

WhY nots playee Muuchamp thEn hunhh???

Your arguement why he shouldn't play Toxicroak is horrible. tehmoe said it best--the spiritomb makes stage 2's ridiculously hard to get out. I'd LOVE to see you get a T2 Kingdra out when I have a spiritomb active. No candies, quick balls, poke radars, dusk balls, pokedex...yeah, your point is horrible. Toxicroak is MUCH easier to get out T2 because it's a stage 1. Also, trying to say "if you miss the energy attachment T1 my Kingdra is faster blah blah" is a ridiculous point.

(It's spelled argument, fail)

Sorry, just had to do that after the "aweful" thing

Anyways, I'm just surprised to see a Kingdra player criticizing Kingdra's speed... kudos.

 

[aade8]

I never said Toxicroak was near Gyarados level, I just wondered if there was a way to make it functional. Gyarados totally has the advantage, no question. And Kingdra does have the Energy/Damage ratio as well.

I think speed-Croak is the way to go. Call Energy could still work with Rainbow, but putting a damage counter on Toxicroak is not a good idea with its HP already questionably low.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[Leaf]

As soon as I saw this the first things I decided it could work in was Flygon, and GeChamp. But moreso Flygon.

Mostly because it's a stage one that fits the flygon theme well. Corner + Power Swing or Corner + Ambush are good combos, and giving Toxicroak free retreat kind of makes up for it's baddish HP.

I don't think this card should ever be run by itself, because a G'd Uxie X will sweep it.