Ultimate Team Battle Royal

Discussion in 'Archive' started by dld4a, Mar 29, 2004.

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  1. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    Ultimate Team Battle Royal
    The idea for this first occurred to me when I was trying to come up with a way to redeem the good name of Team Chicago that has been degraded in several posts on this site. One entire thread was dedicated to the detriment of Team Chicago. I wanted to come up with a way that we could settle these issues in the battle arena and I quickly realized that this would make an excellent format for an environment like Worlds.
    First of all I realize that this could be a long tournament depending on the number and size of teams, but I am generally against time limits (I think they take away from the pureness of the game), and since teams should be entering into this expecting a long tournament I don’t think time limits should be entertained for this type of an event. I also realize that this would be much more complicated for T.O.’s than a normal tournament.
    I believe that it is pure team co-operation and completely minimizes the randomness of opponent selection during a tournament and it maximizes a team’s ability to take advantage of its knowledge of the game.
    It could be played with teams of any size, but all teams must have the same number of players at the start of the tournament. You could even play it with teams of two, but I would think a regular 2-v-2 tournament would work better in that case. I think team size of six would work well. I don’t think it would be too hard to make teams of that size in most cases, but any size from 3 on up could work.

    Abbreviations and Definitions

    BP- Battle Positions: Each team is assigned one B.P. for each player on the team at the start of the tournament. (Six player teams six B.P.).

    TBP- Table Battle Position: The number of TBP equals the highest BP of the teams that are battling at that table. There is one game played for each TBP in that round (if a team with 4 BP battles a team with 5 BP one person from the team with 4 BP will play 2 games that round). During each round one player from each team sits at each TBP. All team members sit on the same side of the table and are not allowed to get up from their seats during a round unless a judge is called and play is suspended for that table. During this suspension discussions about ongoing games are not allowed. At any time during regular play coaching is allowed and players are allowed to show each other their hands with out showing their opponents (this is a team event) but all members must remain seated and no player is allowed to touch any teammate’s cards.

    WP- Win Point: Each team is awarded one WP for each game win during each round. Each team gets one WP at the end of each completed round.

    TAA- Team Average Age: This is figured to the day at the time of the tournament. This can be done at this web site: http://www.calendarhome.com/date.shtml

    YTAA- Youngest Team Average Age

    OTAA- Older Team Average Age
    Over Battles- These are battles that occur when one team has fewer BP than its’ opponents and it has to have one or more of its’ team members play more than one game in a round. No player may play in a second Over Battle until every other available player from that player’s team has played in an over battle.

    Available Players- All players are available to become available players at the beginning of each round. At the beginning of each round each team chooses one of it members for each of its’ BP. These are the only players available to play in that round.


    This is the period of time from the announcement of the tournament up to 24 hrs. prior to the start time. All teams must pre-register with in this time period, with complete deck lists for each BP. Each team must also submit the TAA. Team members maybe switched up to the end of the registration period (one hour before the tournament). A new TAA must be submitted at that time. Deck lists may not be altered once they are accepted during the pre-registration period, so the new player must play one of the decks already submitted.


    This is a period of time from at least two hours prior to the tournament start and one hour prior to the tournament start. At this time teams are to confirm team attendance and set team members with TAA Each player must play his or her own deck throughout the tournament.

    Information Sheets

    These contain information such as general area of the world from which each team member hails, POP rank, names, Pokegym name, and any other information that will help teams identify and recognize each other (for the purpose of deciding which team you would like to battle) and should be submitted during the registration period. Each teams lists including deck lists will be made available to all teams one hour before the tournament start.

    Deciding Team Opponents First Round

    All teams will have one hour before the start of the tournament to decide which team(s) they would most like to battle during the first round. The information sheets should be used to aid in this decision. All teams will send one representative to the judge’s table at the end of this hour. The representatives will form a line at the judge’s table beginning with the representative from the team with the YTAA proceeding to the team with the OTAA. The team with the YTAA chooses their opponents first. Then the team with the next YTAA chooses second and so on unless that team has already been chosen for a battle. If there are an odd number of teams the team that is not chosen during this process is given a bye. That team losses one BP and is awarded 4 WP (not sure about this number yet but it has to be high enough to discourage one team not being chosen for the entire tournament). A team cannot lose its last BP from getting a bye. If a team gets a by and only has one BP left they are still awarded 4 WP.

    Choosing Battle Positions Combatants

    All BP combatants are decided (including Over Battles) before game play begins for that round. At the beginning of each round each team provides the opposing team with the names of available players for that round (if a team has 4 BP it chooses 4 members of its team and those are the only players for that team allowed to play in that round). The team that was chosen as team opponents chooses the combatants for the first TBP. Next the team that chose their team opponents chooses the combatants for the second TBP, and so on until all available BP on the team with the smallest number of BPs are seated. If one of the teams has more BP than the other, the team with fewer BP chooses its’ opponents for all of the remaining TBP from the available players on the opposing team. These remaining TBP games are called Over Battles.

    Deciding Team Opponents in the Second and Later Rounds

    No team may play against the same team two rounds in a row. The team or teams with the fewest number of BP chooses their opposing team, with the team that has the YTAA choosing first if there are multiple teams with the lowest number of BP.

    Results After Round 1
    TAA/yrs.--- Team #---- BP--------- WP
    38.6------- 1---------- 6----------- 7
    14.6------- 2---------- 6----------- 7
    22.4------- 3---------- 6----------- 7
    26.6------- 4---------- 6----------- 7
    10.4------- 5---------- 5----------- 6
    29.1------- 6---------- 5----------- 6
    33.7------- 7---------- 3----------- 4
    18.3------- 8---------- 3----------- 4
    18.1------- 9---------- 1----------- 2
    16.4------- 10--------- 1----------- 2
    69.4------- 11--------- 5----------- 5

    In this chart four teams where eliminated by teams 1 through 4 in the first round. Teams 7 and 8 played each other and split wins/loses and are not eligible to play each other in round two. Teams 5 gets to chose its opponents first. They cannot chose team nine because they played them in the previous round. They can choose team 10 to increase their chances of moving on to round three, but that limits them to only one possible win point for round two. Lets say they are confident in their abilities and choose team 2 as opponents. Team 2 has the next YTAA but they do not get to choose their opponents because they have already been chosen for this round, so the next team to chose their opponents this round is team 10. They chose team 9 to give them the best chance of continuing on to round three. Team 8 is the next to choose, since they cannot choose to play team 7 they choose team 6, to give them the best chance to advance. 3 Chooses 7. 4 Chooses 11. Team 1 gets a bye. (these are just examples of choices and are not guide lines except where it says that a team cannot choose another because they played them in the previous round)

    Results After Round 2
    TAA/yrs.--- Team #----- BP--------- WP
    38.6------- 1---------- 5----------- 11
    14.6------- 2---------- 3----------- 9
    26.6------- 4---------- 4----------- 11
    10.4------- 5---------- 3----------- 9
    29.1------- 6---------- 2----------- 8
    33.7------- 7---------- 3----------- 10
    18.3------- 8---------- 1----------- 7
    16.4------- 10--------- 1----------- 3
    69.4------- 11--------- 1----------- 7

    Dropping from the Tournament

    If an entire team must drop from a tournament in-between rounds before it has chosen its’ opponents, or been chosen, it loses all WP and is simply removed from the tournament. If it is during a round or after it has chosen, or been chosen, its opponents get one WP for each BP that the dropping team had at the beginning of that round. All games, completed or not, in that round are disregarded and the team is removed from the tournament. If a single player must drop from the tournament and it is between rounds that team loses one BP and the round continues as normal. If a player must drop during a round that team loses 2 BP and 1 WP, and the opposing team get 1 WP for each uncompleted game that person was scheduled to play. If the dropping player had completed and won any games that round the results are reversed. If the dropping player had completed and lost any games that round the results stand.

    Determining the End of the Tournament

    The end of the tournament can happen in two ways.
    1) There is only 1 remaining team with BP left.
    2) There are 2 teams remaining with BP left but they just played each other in the previous round.

    Winning the tournament

    The team with the highest amount of WP at the end of the tournament wins. If there is a tie then, of the teams that are tied, the one with the highest number of BP left wins. If there is a tie in this category as well, the win goes to the team with the highest number of game wins. If there is still an unresolved tie at this point the win goes to the team with the most Over Battles wins.

    Comments and suggestions welcome,
    Dave II

    All rights reserved by David B. Coleman II – 3/29/04 (its not that I don’t want this to happen, it’s that I would like to be apart of it if it does)
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2004
  2. farbsman

    farbsman New Member

    We actually considered doing something like this in Indiana with the Leagues from Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana. We didn't do anything with ages though. We decided against it due to the length of time it would take to play.

    I am not sure where we put the rules thought. I haven't been able to find them. I believe it was pretty much one team vs another. With each player of each team playing the other in a one on one match. We then added the points together to get the winning team. Points were the normal points system used in Pokemon events.

    Each of the teams even had separate groups on our message boards in which they could devise strategy. However most of the groups have now been deleted. It was kinda nice because each team could discuss decks without the other seeing what they were saying.

    Another reason we trashed the idea is when we made teams it made to many tournaments as a us vs them thing and caused a bunch of argueing. Thats why I have never been in favor of the whole team "fill in name" thing.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2004
  3. AXE

    AXE New Member

    IT looks awesome and i don't know how but some way we should get this to happen. (I had little prior knowledge of this)
    Dave III
  4. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    I think exemplifies what pokemon is all about. That is team work and cooperation. After all where would Ash, Misty, and Brock be without each other to encourage, console, and help each other along the way.
  5. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    What nobody has any opinions? I'm never sure what it means when you get a high number of views but no responces.
  6. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    NO Way.

    I like the team vs team concept, but the "coaching" you are allowing others to do, makes it in reality where one or two players are controlling the whole team.

    The strength of a team is on the individual strengths of its members.

    I go back to my initial challenge for team St. Louis....

    We will take on Any Team - and are aiming at Team Chicago First -

    6 player teams - 4 any age, one has to be 10 and under, one has to be under 14 (you could have 2, 3, 4 or 6 10 and under players, as long as you had at least one)

    Play 3 rounds, with the teams matching off age v age to start, then in round 2 the 10- would play the 11-14 of each group, then mix it yet again, for a total of 18 match results. The better team, win/loss record takes the title.

    Nice part is this way one teammate cannot control the entire destiny of a team, as they can only contribute 3 of the wins towards the possibility of having 18 total wins!! It will truly measure the strength of your gym.

    Make it interesting, each team brings 3 boxes of Dragon-on to the table, and the winning team leaves with all 6...

    We will see who is up to the challenge...I know we will see team Chicago, but how about Team Memphis, or Team Tennessee - Team NEO will be dealt with at Nationals, I am sure...is there a Team Sedalia, team Kansas City, or some other regional team up for the task???

    We shall see - this will be the ultimate test of the strength of your city.....COWER AND FEAR!!!

  7. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    O.K. so we remove the coaching thing. I just put that in to eliminate any arguements over table talk.
  8. I Like It!! If i were you id send nintendo a quick email about this and explain the idea is for worlds and see what they do. Who knows, they might take it under consideration for worlds.:D
  9. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    Thanks FireFight. I'd like to do that. I'd like to be able to demonstrate that there is an intrest at least in the concept to hopefully get their attention. So, if anyone else thinks they might like to see something like this please post. Even if you can't put together a team that could make it to worlds. If a tournament like this were near you would you like to participate. I know Chicago would put together at least 2 or 3 teams, St. Louis at least 2 or 3, Brookfield 1 or 2, La Cross 1 or 2, Manitowok 1 or 2. I'm just guessing from what I've seen of turn outs and knowing some of the people.
  10. HypnosProjectHQ

    HypnosProjectHQ New Member

    I like it. I wouldn't mind having Team Brookfield take you all on. We'd so win! lol jp w/ya
  11. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    I think that's a great idea! No matter who among Team Texas will be elligible for Worlds, it will triumph over all! =D
  12. HypnosProjectHQ

    HypnosProjectHQ New Member

    Yea right, Patriarch... Team Brookfield... We are so strong, we could take on anyone and win. *cough* yea right! *cough*
  13. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    E-mail sent. Crosses fingers.
  14. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    Thoughts on allowing discussion during play

    It has been brought up that ”coaching” would allow 1 or 2 members of a team to control that team, which would give that team an advantage and/or not be representative of a team’s actual abilities relative to its’ individual members. The objective here should be to find the true effects this might have on this tournament and decide if they would be positive, negative, or neutral to the overall tournament structure.
    When the issue was first addressed my initial reaction was to say “O.K. we’ll drop it because my reason to allow it was to eliminate arguments over table talk”. Having now had the time to reconsider the question I have recalled my original reasons for allowing it.

    1) In the traditional 2-v-2 game you are allowed to talk to your partner as long as your opponents can hear you (signals and codes are allowed). You are not allowed to show your hand to your partner however. I decided to allow you to show your hand to your teammates because all members of a team will be seated next to each other on the same side the table and I thought that it would eliminate arguments about one person seeing a teammates hand unintentionally and lending aid in a game that he/she is not participating.
    2) Lets consider the possibility of a team consisting of four-ten and under kids and two adults (or 5&1). Teams like this may be put together in order to take advantage of the ability to choose your opponent in the first round thereby increasing the possibility of success. This was the direct catalyst for the inclusion of the rule that states that the team that was chosen as an opponent chooses the combatants for the first TBP. I think these two rules balance each other, yet still rewards the inclusion of younger players in the tournament. I think this may give the opportunity to play to some kids who may not have other wise been able to.

    I think the main draw back to allowing discussion during play may be that it may make an already long tournament substantially longer by slowing play.
  15. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    O.K. one last point on allowing discussions durring play. lets say there is a team of 5 older more expirenced players and 1 younger one. Once that team looses a BP they may be "tempted" to not allow the younger player to play in later rounds if they are not allowed to aid him/her. That could leave the younger player out of the tournament after the first round. When, if they are allowed to coach him/her they may want to slot him/her into a TBP in order to take advantage of a particular weakness. I think that "coaching" should however be just guidance, or suggestions and not actually playing for that person, just as if you were trying to teach someone how to get better at your league. After all that person may know how his/her deck is built and may be setting something up that you don't see because your not acustom to that deck or your preoccupied with your own game. I'm not sure if this could be monitored very well though.
  16. dld4a

    dld4a Feature Writer

    Well I know I said that the previous post was the last but this is it, I swear. This is becoming more of a Blog than anything anyway. I'm having problems working out the ability to assist other players on your team. After still further consideration I now believe that it will tend to break down the structure of the tournament. My original reasons to allow it have been stated and basically boil down to an attempt to encourage the inclusion of less expirenced players. It may be necessary to consider this a more advanced style format. Not to say younger players couldn't be included at all, in fact I know a fare number of younger players who could do more than hold their own. If the rule about "coaching" is changed, it becomes necessary to change how team opponets are choosen in the first round. I believe that instead of the team with the YTAA choosing first the team with the lowest average POP rank should choose first (if two or more teams are tied for the lowest rank the one with the YTAA amongst them chooses first).
    Thank You if anyone is reading,
    Dave II

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