Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Use of Prize-swap Penalty (UPDATED - not in POP Penalty Guidelines)

S

SteveP

Active Member
hey everyone. I was wondering if anyone running best-of-3 playoffs at their Challenges plans on using the Prize-swap penalty during the playoffs?

What do you think? Should it be used as a penalty when a game-loss seems too severe, even during best-of-3 playoffs?

I ask this because I'm considering using this penalty at our Colorado Gym where we're doing best-of-3 for the entire tournament.

At Challenges where you do 1-game Swiss and 3-game Playoffs, will you be switching the prize-swap penalty to game-loss during the playoffs? Or will you continue to consider the prize-swap penalty during the playoffs?

Just wondering.
 
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Well, I like the idea of a prize swap penalty, even during swiss. A warning to a game loss is kinda a big jump, and most of the time, it will cause some angry parents, and sometimes you get in a grey area where a warning is not enough and a match loss is too much. In swiss, that game could mean the difference between making top 8 or not. But in a 2 of 3, you could still win the other 2 games. But I like the prize swap in both, I think it's a good middle ground penatly. That's my two pence.
Rick
 
SteveP said:
hey everyone. I was wondering if anyone running best-of-3 playoffs at their Challenges plans on using the Prize-swap penalty during the playoffs?

What do you think? Should it be used as a penalty when a game-loss seems too severe, even during best-of-3 playoffs?

I ask this because I'm considering using this penalty at our Colorado Gym where we're doing best-of-3 for the entire tournament.

At Challenges where you do 1-game Swiss and 3-game Playoffs, will you be switching the prize-swap penalty to game-loss during the playoffs? Or will you continue to consider the prize-swap penalty during the playoffs?

Just wondering.
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Nope

The penalty guidelines PUI gave us got rid of the prize swap.

Edit: I think the prize swap is too much, maybe a prize penalty where a player picks up a prize or makes the opponent put down another prize. Both is way too much

I agree that going from a warning to a game loss is a bit much.
 
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SD PokéMom said:
Ummm...what penalty guidelines?

'mom
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PTO's got a ruff draft to use at Gym's, I don;t think they plan to release them to the public until later after they go through legal and a bit of testing
 
Actually, Dave told TC at the Rules meeting tonight that the Penalty Guidelines are supposed to be public but the web guy hasn`t gotten to it yet.

`Sensei
 
I hope they go up sometime today, because I'd like to get a chance to read them before head judging tomorrow at our Gym Challenge.
 
Oh, if they're public, I agree with Rocketman that it's too big a jump to go from Warning to Game Loss.
We need something inbetween.

Now, the question is, can we use something inbetween at our discretion?
 
I also agree that it is a big jump from warning to game loss. We need to have something in between for infractions that don't warrant a game loss but need to be a little tougher than a warning. I would think having options like prize swap, opponent takes a prize unless it is their last then person committing infraction adds a prize.
 
For those interested, for the time being the POP floor rules can be seen in a link contained in skyfoxgames.com I'm sure they will be on the pokemon-tcg site soon.
 
The prize swap penalty was NEVER an official part of the DCI Penalty Guideline (correct me if I'm wrong). It was an optional penalty suggested by the WOTC MTs for those judges who felt that a game loss was too harsh for 1-game matches because it equated to a match loss, which is a higher penalty than a game loss in multi-game matches.

I suppose this question becomes moot if the POP Penalty Guidelines comes out before my Gym tomorrow.

So, can anyone who's seen the draft Guidelines tell me how POP addresses a game-loss penalty in the case of 1-game matches?

One thing that concerns me is the question whether a judge can impose a penalty in addition to the standard set of penalties (caution, warning, game loss, match loss, disqualification). Because the prize swap penalty became a practiced part of the DCI system, it became accepted, although not officially (in the Guidelines). Other penalties, such as loss of cards/hand and loss of turn, seem like possible penalties (in addition to the normal caution/warning) in certain situations (to nullify any advantage gained by an infraction). That's how I was considering to use the prize swap (or opponent prize draw) penalty. I'd issue a warning and additionally "tack on" that penalty.

Any thoughts?
 
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Guidelines are just that GUIDELINES .. we can address issues how we like as PUI have shown when dealing with the Int'l issues.

And until they are disseminated this is all a moot point anyhow..
 
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ukpokemonpro said:
Guidelines are just that GUIDELINES...
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Right.

But if you choose not to follow the guidelines, then 1) you'd better have a good reason (ie, the penalty in the guidelines is too severe for the given situation), and 2) your alternative is not ad hoc (your alternative is part of your standard practices).

Beyond that, any deviations from the guidelines are rogue.
 
I have read the penalty guidelines and I think they are well designed for the Pokemon TCG. Mainly because they are focused towards what can be still said the "target audience" for the game which is young children. The PTCGPGLs are mainly get tough only when it is absolutly necessary. However what I think is interesting that our new guidelines mention that in single game matches, it seems that the they don't encourage prize penalties they rather encourage going along with the whole match loss, therefore for major procedural errors (like double Supporter infractions) they encourage a Warning.
 
I was surprised that for even situations like cheating, Warnings were seen as the correct penalty.
 
I am glad that Myst' can fill us in on the guidelines, but I will be ecstatic if PUI ever decide they will involve the Int'l and wider community in reviewing rulings, guidelines and changes to the game...

I wonder if the phonelines in the new offices work well enough for a Chat yet?
 
pokepop said:
I was surprised that for even situations like cheating, Warnings were seen as the correct penalty.
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Read the second paragraph in the cheating section:

POP Tournament Penalty Guidelines said:
Cheating is the worst penalty a player can commit short of attempting to physically disrupt an event. If a player is proven to have intentionally cheated, increasing the first penalty to a Game Loss is appropriate. A repeat of an intentional cheating infraction should be penalized with a disqualification.
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As specified, a game-loss penalty is approiate. Plus, you can skip the match-loss penalty and go straight to a disqualification on a second offense.
 
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After thoroughly reading the guidelines, it appears that if an infraction is unreversable (and is caught immediately) or a corrective action causes a delay or disruption, then a warning is given.

From the looks of it, unless you can determine cheating, playing two Prof Oak's Research in the same turn results in nothing more than a warning (or caution if it can somehow be reversed, or is a little kid). Of course this assumes it's the first infraction of this type.

So, other than intentional cheating and major unsportsmanship, game-loss penalties CAN'T be applied.

Additionally, corrective actions like loss of cards/hand, loss of turn, and prize-swap DON'T seem appropriate according to the draft Guidelines.

Does anyone see this differently?
 
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Is the POP Tournament Penalty Guidelines open for public viewing? I've got a .PDF copy I can post if it IS open for public viewing.
 
Steve,yes they are.Dave told us last night at the rules meeting that they should be public but it hasn`t been gotten to yet..Go ahead and post it.This`ll be a good way for everyone to get them asap since they aren`t yet available(last time I checked).

`Sensei
 
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