Virginia's Autumn Battle Roads 2008!--Now with Photo Link (end of thread)
- Thread starter totoro
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ShadowCard
Active Member
I can't believe you won with Rose Quartz.1st Arron S.(me:biggrinLunaBlissSol
Capitalism was great. I own Johnny at that game, just like in pokemon. Johnny and I aren't going to get a rematch not before the next set, I guess.
I think we came to about 65 or 66 total. Fairfax takes these 4-k-value events seriously. It's not like States where it's all fun and games
Brawler
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
goood job the jon and aaron, i thought pat was going to win :O
looks like pat is going to win today since no one in seniors is barely going to gamez
True...
Who likes my new avatar better than the Flygon one?
P.S. - I'll see you, steven, at league today.
ShadowCard
Active Member
You finished the tournament by 5pm?
totoro
Active Member
You finished the tournament by 5pm?
Yup, ran smooth as silk. Any TO can tell you that tournaments are exponential. A 20 person event will finish MUCH faster than a 40 person event. We only had one top cut today (in masters) and it was a top 2. Even at that Kevin had won 2-0 within 30 mins....we coulda done your draft today, Jav!!!
tim and Mr. t can you please explain the no code for my notes ruling to me? How does PUI think they can regulate how/what i right? What if I accidently write venomoth instead of mothim and what can a judge do to me if I do that? and how would a judge know unless he was looking at my prizes too. I mean i dont even have to share my notes, if my opponent never asks to see them, i dont have to write is down and then immediately show him, i only have to show if he asks. I mean seriously, how can PUI think to control notes I take during a match? thats just silly.
Ror
Ror
drugenalmighty
New Member
i feel the same way.
i mean what if i like to write in some forigne language.
i mean what if i like to write in some forigne language.
totoro
Active Member
Rory, your question definitely has merit and I would suggest either the ATM here, a post on the rulings forum over at go-pokemon.com or a direct email to [email protected] I'm just an interpreter of what I have seen, not a creator!!
Rogue Archetype
Moderator <br> Contest Host
I had a chance to play against some new faces this weekend.
Tim F. & Kevin F. are two of the most down-to-earth REALLY GOOD players I've faced.
Really cool... Really humble. I'm glad I, finally, had an opportunity to play those guys this weekend.
I can't believe I avoided the RC crew altogether this time!
The Venue = I like what they're trying to do w/ Battle City Games. TABLES.. CARDS... Battle.
It's like a center for primier card events. How cool is that?
David T... It'd be cool if you shoot us a "we may only break for 15 min lunch" head's up. We woulda packed rather than planning on a drive-through (OMG @ how slow that Burger King is!!!)
Overall = Good Times @ Fairfax & Battle City Games
Tim F. & Kevin F. are two of the most down-to-earth REALLY GOOD players I've faced.
Really cool... Really humble. I'm glad I, finally, had an opportunity to play those guys this weekend.
I can't believe I avoided the RC crew altogether this time!
The Venue = I like what they're trying to do w/ Battle City Games. TABLES.. CARDS... Battle.
It's like a center for primier card events. How cool is that?
David T... It'd be cool if you shoot us a "we may only break for 15 min lunch" head's up. We woulda packed rather than planning on a drive-through (OMG @ how slow that Burger King is!!!)
Overall = Good Times @ Fairfax & Battle City Games
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ShadowCard
Active Member
15-minute lunch? Come on, totoro, school lunches are longer than that--unless you go to college and schedule all your classes back-to-back :frown:.
rroaryh, at first I was kind of annoyed by your question because the answer is long, but I've decided it is such a good question that I am glad you asked it. Before the lawyers at my league decide to pitch this one at me, I'll give my answer.
) or when directing the opponent to do something? The opposing team does not know a word of any other foreign language, much less French; there is no interprettor available. Clearly, there is a problem here. Even if you limit table talk, you can't prove anything that Melody and I say in this case. If you really want to find something in the tournament rules, the "Players are expected to behave in a respectful manner to all attendees and staff of a Pokémon TCG event." description that outlines the Unsporting Conduct penalties could be a place to start. Writing/speaking in code is also a method to deceive your opponent and nothing can be proven about what it really says/means, which could also justify starting in the Unsporting Conduct penalties. At Worlds, I heard about instances where players speaking a foreign language were asked to leave spectator areas because it couldn't be proved what they were saying.
Now into lawyer mode:
1) If a this is "Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into making misplays," (Tournament Rules 7.6.4. Cheating) a disqualification is the recommended penalty in both tiers.
1A) If a judge decides it is intentional, that may be the ruling.
1B) If it is decided that it is unintentional, then you may get a warning from a lower catagory of penalty and told to be more careful. Completely judges discretion.
2) If writing "Venomoth" instead of "Mothim" is determined to be "Attempting to manipulate a match through intimidation or distraction." (TR 7.6.2. Major Unsporting Conduct), a judge would have to determine intent. A judge can make this connection by thinking that Player A is making Player B think a card is in Player A's deck which is detrimental to Player B's deck, but the card is actually not played by Player A. The most common example is, when facing a Colorless-weak deck, the opponent mildly exclaims "It's a good thing I've teched Crystal Shard." This exclamation is meant to intimidate the opposing player, whether it is true or not. So, by writing "Venomoth," is this really an accident or an attempt at intimidation? Venomoth is a bad example, Glaceon lvX against a Poke-Power reliant deck is a better example.
2A) If the judge decides you are truly trying to intimidate your opponent, you could face a Prize Card loss in Tier 1 and a Game loss in Tier 2. The opponent could make a very good case for intimidation depending on what deck he/she is playing and anything else you said during the round that others heard (see the example I gave).
2B) If it is decided that it isn't intentional, see 1B.
) it is discovered that your prize cards are not what you noted. In this case, see both case 1 and 2 above.
Citical thinking for judges (making connections): Can anyone think of any cards that allow you to look at your opponent's prize cards in the current Modified?
Now, how would a judge know? There's always someone who drops a card, sometimes it is one of his/her prize cards. Could that person be you? Another example is at an event with only 1 judge who was also the deck checker, I may not see your prize cards but I may see what you're writing (due to my position at the table). Venomoth, like various other cards, is one of those cards that stands out at a tournament and therefore I may remember not seeing any while doing deck check. So, if I see you write "Venomoth," then I may want to inspect your prize cards on suspicion of a deck problem infraction. I've been to a 50-player BR with only 1 judge. I remember totoro being the only judge for atleast 1 tournament as well. I suppose if one of your notes has made the judge suspicious, he could pull your decklist and verify the card's existance in your deck.
The idea of "what if I get caught?" only applies if you are actually caught, so the "I don't have to share notes if not asked" justification is null. Isn't that like saying "I don't have to show my reference unless I'm asked, so I'll see if I can get away without one until questioned"? If you're getting caught, it's probably in a situation when you were asked to share the notes or enough suspicion has come your way. And if you're constantly looking at your notes, I'd be very surpised that your opponent will never get curious about what you are reading (at which point the discover the code and ask you what it means).
Now, that we're on the topic of taking notes about the prize cards, those who write what positions the cards are in open themselves up to a possible penalty. What happens if you wrote all your prizes down correctly by name, but put them in the wrong place? Is this an act to deceive the opponent (see 1A)? You could end up with that "dubious actions" penalty or the lesser "Engaging in gamesmanship/rules lawyering" (7.6.2. Major Unsporting Conduct) if you want to argue that nothing says you have to put the prizes in the right place on your drawing.
Now, that was laywer mode. My personal opinion on notetaking about private knowledge (such as prizes): Don't do it. If you really want to, write it in a list. If the HJ allows you to rearrange your prize cards (last time I checked, the HJs in VA were ruling "yes"), is it so hard to arrange them in alphabetical order, or grouping the pkmn, trainers, and energy? To be honest, I thought that writing down your prizes counted as intimidation, so I was surprised to see the TOs/HJs ruling the way they are.
This code talking/writing ruling is not new. I believe it has been around in tag team rules since WotC made the format official, or possibly when POP tried reviving tag team some years back.
Now that I've convinced you all that I'm the meanest judge in Virginia, have fun at the rest of the events and I look forward to seeing everyone for the prereleases :thumb:
rroaryh, at first I was kind of annoyed by your question because the answer is long, but I've decided it is such a good question that I am glad you asked it. Before the lawyers at my league decide to pitch this one at me, I'll give my answer.
I'll present an analogy: Do you think, in a tag team game, one team can talk in a foreign language? Say I and Melody get teamed together at a totoro Tag Team event: can we talk in French instead of English to each other during the game, only using English when it comes to card names/abilities (Can we even use French cards?
) or when directing the opponent to do something? The opposing team does not know a word of any other foreign language, much less French; there is no interprettor available. Clearly, there is a problem here. Even if you limit table talk, you can't prove anything that Melody and I say in this case. If you really want to find something in the tournament rules, the "Players are expected to behave in a respectful manner to all attendees and staff of a Pokémon TCG event." description that outlines the Unsporting Conduct penalties could be a place to start. Writing/speaking in code is also a method to deceive your opponent and nothing can be proven about what it really says/means, which could also justify starting in the Unsporting Conduct penalties. At Worlds, I heard about instances where players speaking a foreign language were asked to leave spectator areas because it couldn't be proved what they were saying.Now into lawyer mode:
If you write "Venomoth" in your notes when it was instead a "Mothim," a judge will have to determine intent.
1) If a this is "Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into making misplays," (Tournament Rules 7.6.4. Cheating) a disqualification is the recommended penalty in both tiers.
1A) If a judge decides it is intentional, that may be the ruling.
1B) If it is decided that it is unintentional, then you may get a warning from a lower catagory of penalty and told to be more careful. Completely judges discretion.
2) If writing "Venomoth" instead of "Mothim" is determined to be "Attempting to manipulate a match through intimidation or distraction." (TR 7.6.2. Major Unsporting Conduct), a judge would have to determine intent. A judge can make this connection by thinking that Player A is making Player B think a card is in Player A's deck which is detrimental to Player B's deck, but the card is actually not played by Player A. The most common example is, when facing a Colorless-weak deck, the opponent mildly exclaims "It's a good thing I've teched Crystal Shard." This exclamation is meant to intimidate the opposing player, whether it is true or not. So, by writing "Venomoth," is this really an accident or an attempt at intimidation? Venomoth is a bad example, Glaceon lvX against a Poke-Power reliant deck is a better example.
2A) If the judge decides you are truly trying to intimidate your opponent, you could face a Prize Card loss in Tier 1 and a Game loss in Tier 2. The opponent could make a very good case for intimidation depending on what deck he/she is playing and anything else you said during the round that others heard (see the example I gave).
2B) If it is decided that it isn't intentional, see 1B.
Let's start with "how would a player know unless he was looking at my prizes?" My favorite card to accomplish this is Imposter Professor Oak's Invention:
So, the opponent plays this card and (after resolving that illegal deck problemImposter Professor Oak's Invention said:
) it is discovered that your prize cards are not what you noted. In this case, see both case 1 and 2 above.Citical thinking for judges (making connections): Can anyone think of any cards that allow you to look at your opponent's prize cards in the current Modified?
Now, how would a judge know? There's always someone who drops a card, sometimes it is one of his/her prize cards. Could that person be you? Another example is at an event with only 1 judge who was also the deck checker, I may not see your prize cards but I may see what you're writing (due to my position at the table). Venomoth, like various other cards, is one of those cards that stands out at a tournament and therefore I may remember not seeing any while doing deck check. So, if I see you write "Venomoth," then I may want to inspect your prize cards on suspicion of a deck problem infraction. I've been to a 50-player BR with only 1 judge. I remember totoro being the only judge for atleast 1 tournament as well. I suppose if one of your notes has made the judge suspicious, he could pull your decklist and verify the card's existance in your deck
.The idea of "what if I get caught?" only applies if you are actually caught, so the "I don't have to share notes if not asked" justification is null. Isn't that like saying "I don't have to show my reference unless I'm asked, so I'll see if I can get away without one until questioned"? If you're getting caught, it's probably in a situation when you were asked to share the notes or enough suspicion has come your way. And if you're constantly looking at your notes, I'd be very surpised that your opponent will never get curious about what you are reading (at which point the discover the code and ask you what it means).
Now, that we're on the topic of taking notes about the prize cards, those who write what positions the cards are in open themselves up to a possible penalty. What happens if you wrote all your prizes down correctly by name, but put them in the wrong place? Is this an act to deceive the opponent (see 1A)? You could end up with that "dubious actions" penalty or the lesser "Engaging in gamesmanship/rules lawyering" (7.6.2. Major Unsporting Conduct) if you want to argue that nothing says you have to put the prizes in the right place on your drawing.
Now, that was laywer mode. My personal opinion on notetaking about private knowledge (such as prizes): Don't do it. If you really want to, write it in a list. If the HJ allows you to rearrange your prize cards (last time I checked, the HJs in VA were ruling "yes"), is it so hard to arrange them in alphabetical order, or grouping the pkmn, trainers, and energy? To be honest, I thought that writing down your prizes counted as intimidation, so I was surprised to see the TOs/HJs ruling the way they are.
This code talking/writing ruling is not new. I believe it has been around in tag team rules since WotC made the format official, or possibly when POP tried reviving tag team some years back.
Now that I've convinced you all that I'm the meanest judge in Virginia, have fun at the rest of the events and I look forward to seeing everyone for the prereleases :thumb:
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