Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

What is Weavile/Exeggcute?

Well level ball would be amazing in this deck. And you can attach dark claw to weavile and you can discared other pokemon in this deck also. I would also run town map just in case if any Exeggcute was prized.
 
FSULugia said:
The thing is that getting the Exeggcute all together, setting up the Weaviles with energy, and to keep them coming back consistently is quite a task. It doesnt sound like something thats simple to do in this meta. Its a huge combo deck, again Im not sure if you understand how different that is compared to what has already been winning. We would see Raticate decks winning (a deck thats very similar) by now if combo heavy decks were more viable in this format.

I suggest you read some of the previous posts. Some guy said they should add fossil Pokemon to the deck (no offense to whoever that was) and everyone else is just saying "i tested it and its good". The decks im seeing out of Japan arent playing EX's either, so its really a mystery to how good it can be.

Either way im not interested in finding out if this deck is good or not since i have better things to do than to care if some wildhorse deck can win or not in the format. The deck is obviously playable but its not hard to tell based on previous non EX decks how they contend in the meta. It will make tops, nobody is arguing that. Its just all the people who are on the t1 bandwagon that are kinda not getting it.
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Players are able to get out Garbodors quickly as soon as it's KO'd. Weavile should be just as quick, and using EXP Share/Dark Patch/Colress machine gets the new one fully loaded too.

Also, I don't see anyone saying it's Tier 1. Most are saying it's a deck that should at least be looked at.
 
another reason this deck does/did well in Japan is that the meta over there for BW-PLF is/was Thundurus/Deoxys/Kyurem. meaning that Landorus is taking 80 damage on t1 on average from Kyurem PLF. so Lando isn't played as much then.
 
I do not see this deck being meta, but a popular rogue or even a tier 2 or 3 for shure. It would be a good,cheap, reliable deck to play and i see it having alot of potential. I would say just play this with town map, some rescue scarfs, dark patch and/or colress machine. Maybe even Ho-oh. I for sure will be making this deck! It sounds fun!
 
I do not see this deck being meta, but a popular rogue
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There is no such thing. That's like saying hot snow.

This deck is bad because it needs a lot more than your average EX deck to keep going, only to do about the same thing (having an even prize trade with EXes).

For example, assuming Weavile 2HKOs Darkrai from the moment it attacks, you are still tradign active damage easily, but then it's harder to replace a Weavile every time it gets KO'd, and Darkrai also gets to do splash damage to the bench, eventually setting up a double KO.

Add in the risk of getting donked (not just the Eggs, but also Sneasel), and you just have an inferior deck.
 
There is buzz about this deck...

...which by now anyone not new and paying attention knows is a pretty lousy measure of how good or bad the deck is. Looking at it, I see the concerns; discussing it elsewhere I've made sure to point out how vulnerable some aspects of the deck are.

At the same time, the basic concept is sound given the nature of Pokémon; once you have four Exeggute in your discard pile, getting two more Pokémon in hand to discard while setting up another Stage 1 attacker doesn't seem overly hard. Now if the deck really is just about 2HKOs and barely pulling ahead in Prizes, most of the appeal would just be running something "different"... which is important to some player types.

The :)dark: :colorless:) needed to attack is neither easy nor especially hard to meet reliably in this format. So if you are going for the OHKOs, you just need to do it thrice and can afford two "extra" Pokémon being KOed on your own side. All in all, seems like one of those decks that is its own worst enemy; a single "misfire" in set-up/maintenance and it's D.O.A..

I love a good debate, but right now the debate isn't going so well; too many posts ignoring glossing over some points while overemphasizing others.
 
I've had Sableyes live for 4+ turns in this format when I played Darkrai, half my matches against big basics.
If you can't see how it won't work try it.
Maybe read more on the Japanese metagame, as they have always been a step ahead of us since the beginning.
Maybe you are prone to donks, but they rarely happen in organized play anyway. Any deck will lose to a perfect set-up.

Team Magma in 2004, how can it win, o wait, it crushed every EX deck in the format.
You need to go into statistics and probability with any deck before you deem it not good enough. It's about your ratios, and some luck.

Also to add, 120 is damage from ONLY 4 exxecutes, not with claws, lasers, other abilities, plus power. These decks don't only discard the eggs.
With a 2 energy set up, you will have another 1 or 2 ready to repeat when they take 1 prize off you, if they can.
 
Awesomonewb said:
I just want to emphasize this point. This is the main reason that Empoleon can do decently in this format being a stage 2 with max damage at 120.
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Empoleon doesn't do decently, and hasn't since like Battle Roads. And Empoleon has like 50% more HP than Weavile.
 
Otaku said:
At the same time, the basic concept is sound given the nature of Pokémon; once you have four Exeggute in your discard pile, getting two more Pokémon in hand to discard while setting up another Stage 1 attacker doesn't seem overly hard. Now if the deck really is just about 2HKOs and barely pulling ahead in Prizes, most of the appeal would just be running something "different"... which is important to some player types.
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Well, getting yourself set up AND getting the 4 Eggs in there can be difficult. Gyarados had a similar concept in that it wanted to get Karps onto the discard, and one Gyarados ready to go. Back then, though, Gyarados also had a lot of support in the form of Junk Arm (to discard) and Pokemon Collector (you can get all 3 Karps in one shot). Then there was Azelf, who could help you get Karps out of your prizes. We have Town Map. They also had BTS for quick recoveries and quick setups. It was not unheard of to see a fully charged Gyarados on turn 1. It didn't take that many cards to do.

Although it's a cool deck idea, I feel that getting Pokemon into your hand isn't that easy. Sure, you have balls (like Level and Ultra), but those are 1 for 1. The deck would need something Collector-esque to have a real fighting chance. Even though its main attacker is only a stage 1, I feel like getting the whole set-up is not that easy.
 
Gyarados had 130 HP, BTS, Sableye, Collector, UMA trio, free attack cost, and many other things.

Weavile has none of those and a format more hostile to Stage 1s.

No thanks.
 
Swordfish1989 said:
Well, getting yourself set up AND getting the 4 Eggs in there can be difficult. Gyarados had a similar concept in that it wanted to get Karps onto the discard, and one Gyarados ready to go. Back then, though, Gyarados also had a lot of support in the form of Junk Arm (to discard) and Pokemon Collector (you can get all 3 Karps in one shot). Then there was Azelf, who could help you get Karps out of your prizes. We have Town Map. They also had BTS for quick recoveries and quick setups. It was not unheard of to see a fully charged Gyarados on turn 1. It didn't take that many cards to do.

Although it's a cool deck idea, I feel that getting Pokemon into your hand isn't that easy. Sure, you have balls (like Level and Ultra), but those are 1 for 1. The deck would need something Collector-esque to have a real fighting chance. Even though its main attacker is only a stage 1, I feel like getting the whole set-up is not that easy.
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Now, I have not played this deck; cards aren't out in English and if I was going to proxy, I'd be testing a lot of other decks/combos first. Still, the raw level of draw power we have, especially in a deck that

a) wants to get something into the discard
b) should be running plenty of recursion to get fragile Pokémon back

shouldn't be undersold. That doesn't mean some of us aren't overselling it, either; my basic stance is that it is unsurprisingly far too soon to write the deck off or expecting it to be the next big (and best) thing.
 
Well of course, I'm not looking to write it off either, I'm just trying to look at it objectively and compare it to other decks of the past that relied on a somewhat similar strategy. Trust me, I looovvvve cards that have potential for 'unlimited' damage like Weavile, but you need one heck of a set-up to pull it off. I just think people overestimate how easy it is to get 4 very specific cards into the discard while simultaneously setting up more than one of your main attacker, with energies, and other support cards to pull off OHKOs on EXs.

Unless of course, you manage to pull off the amazing first turn hand. 2 Sneasel, 4 Eggs, 1 Juniper. No donk and you get your eggs in the discard while getting a fresh hand, One can dream.
 
I still think you are now underselling what can be done in the format.

First... who said you have to get all four Exeggute into the discard pile first turn? Since it could be phrased a few ways, seriously let me know if I overlooked that (or worse yet, accidentally wrote it myself :rolleyes:). This is definitely a high priority, but it isn't a "must do this or the deck fails!" kind of thing.

Second... let's actually run with that in comparing this to Gyarados (DP: Stormfront 19/100). We have established the obvious advantages it had and they are pretty important. In case we missed one, I'll (re)list them:

  • 130 HP > 90 HP
  • Weakness: :lightning:+30 > :fighting: x 2 (this one I am not sure of, though)
  • Evolution acceleration (Broken Time-Space, old-text Rare Candy).
  • Damage based on amount of target in discard, not act of discarding.
  • Eventually had access to Pokémon Collector
Now... what about going the other direction?



  • Scapegoat works discarding any Pokémon, not just lower Stage of Evolution line.
  • Related to above, not discarding own Basic form.
  • Damage cap only based on how many cards you can afford to discard.
  • Crazy amount of Item based search options (Ultra Ball, Level Ball, Team Plasma Ball).
The real confusing part, and why this is an actual debate and not obvious, are all the differences that are... differences, and not easily categorized.
 
Well, I'm a person of checklists, and I like crossing things off my list as quickly as possible. I see Eggs in the discard pile as an item in my checklist that needs to be out of there soon so that I can start hitting for max damage soon. Can you do damage without it? Of course. But do remember that you need to be able to compete with big exs that are hitting for big damage on turn 2 (if not turn 1).

As for the damage output, remember that while Gyarados' max damage was lower than what Weavile can pull out, Gyarados did not have 180 HP monsters to deal with. Most Pokemon in SP decks had what, 110 HP in their LV X form? And that 110 was easily reached by putting an Expert Belt on Gyarados. That meant that with 1 Expert Belt attached, Gyarados could remove most of its biggest threats. Weavile would need the 4 eggs in the discard + an extra two throwaways to OHKO the big basics we have to deal with now.

While the balls are an awesome system, it's also slower. You need 3 balls for 3 eggs, while you just needed 1 collector for 3 karps. Granted, it's your supporter for the turn, but when you're talking speed and consistency, it maters.
 
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