What to do about bad gym leader.

[SteveP]

Excellent point PokeMom! GLs are not "tested" experts. IMO, it would be excessive to require them to take tests merely to run a gym.

Michel, no doubt GLs should "know" the official rules, or at least be in the process of learning them. Like you said, any deviations should be announced in advance, league play or not. I suspect this GL probably knows yoshi presented him with the official ruling. Hopefully, if this GL judges a tournament, he'll abide by the official ruling, but that is yet to be seen I suppose.

My point is this: Leagues are generally casual, and they are also the initial stepping stone for players to refine their skills and prepare for more serious tournament play. But heck, if I were to rigorously impose the strictest adherence to the rules during casual league play, I'd loose more players than it would be worth. For example, what if I observe procedural errors during league play? Do I impose the penalties? "Oops, you Elm-ed twice in the same turn. Prize Swap!" :nonono:

Anyway, not knowing the full facts, maybe this GL is just imposing a "fun" deviation for league play (like you said in your initial post yoshi). So, if this same deviation shows up at tournament this GL judges, then and only then would I personally do anything drastic (i.e, contact PUI, the TO). JMO.

 

[Sensei]

[Disclaimer:This reply is based on Yoshi`s side being correct]

I think one thing a few of you are overlooking is the behavior of this "Gym Leader".Not only has he disregarded the correct way of ruling on a card,not only did he say he wants to build a deck to take advantage of a misruling(so he obviously has the better chances of winning) that he imposed himself, but this guy grabbed Yoshi`s paper and BIT it?

What kind of behavior is that for a "Gym Leader"?I can understand kids goofing around and what not,but the "Gym Leader" biting the paper?I think that in and of itself says that this guy isn`t fit to run a Gym...it`s people like this that give the game a bad name.

Now,with that said,after reading the replies of Steve P,`Mom, and Yoshi, I think the that all of you are partially correct.I fully agree that Leagues are "more casual" and are meant to be,and should be, fun but at the same time this is the starting level for the game that leads to OP and the correct rules need to be enforced at all times unless the Gym Leader explicitly states or allows a certain way to be played for a reason that is "allowable".To blatantly misplay to benefit someone is just plain wrong.Not only that,if someone like this is allowed to continue to show kids the wrong rulings on cards,whats going to happen to them when they go to an official tournament?The kid is going to be humiliated and there could be a big mess with the parents getting involved...I`ve even seen this end result in past Stadium Challenges.

As for testing GL`s,while a good intention,I think `Mom and Steve are correct in that it would ony do more harm than good.End result would be less leagues.What would be great(we can dream...) is that PUI/Nintendo could send people to "train" Gym Leaders.Now that would be awesome,eh?

Oh,what would I recommeond for this situation?

1)Yoshi tell himself he isn`t an "International Rules Expert".He is a Professor that has more game knowledge than the average player and should be humble.

2)As I stated about this post was said with the intent that Yoshi hasn`t mistaken this guy,if the GL wants to make his own rulings up and doesn`t want to listen to reason,then I`d suggest going to who is in charge and explain it to him/her whats going on and that you seek a peaceful solution so that the game is being taught right.

3)If the GL refuses to show the correct rulings on cards and continues to misplay rulings,after discussing it with all involved,then I`d suggest that he is "let go" from the position and have someone else run it.

4)If that doesn`t work,and believe me thats a possibility as I`ve seen some...questionable store owners/managers, then I`d report it to MT Dave(I believe he is the one in charge of the leagues).Hopefully,you get this straightened out.I would like to say just go somewhere else if it doesn`t,but I personally would not let the game be mistaught and the league being led by someone who likes to misplay rulings.I would do what it takes to get it running properly for the good of the game.But thats just me.You do what you feel you should do.

`Sensei

 

[yoshi1001]

On the topic of testing GLs, rather than making testing a requirement, we could just send out an optional test for them to complete to get an idea of how informed they are as a whole. That would probably do a lot better than some test for the job ever would.

I think we all agree that leagues are not as serious as tournaments. The disagreement becomes how serious they therefore are. One can argue that college football and the NFL have some rules differences (one vs. two feet in, overtime, etc.) but then again they are run by two seperate organizations. League and tournaments are run by the same organization. Does that matter?

As usual, the issues here are much more complex than any simple answer can produce, and the most important opinion, that of PUI's, is not known.

Oh, and:

"1)Yoshi tell himself he isn`t an "International Rules Expert".He is a Professor that has more game knowledge than the average player and should be humble."

I said "internationally known expert on rules." I can't be an international rules expert because I've never left the US. Besides, me, humble? Perish the thought.

 

[Sensei]

Ok,ok..I`ll revise it:

"1)Yoshi tell himself he isn`t an "Internationally known expert on the rules".He is a Professor that has more game knowledge than the average player but still makes mistakes like everyone else."

 

[mysterioustrainer]

I have skimmed through the topic and let me say this, for situations where a ruling is in overall dispute, refer to the Compedium and the Compedium EX because as quoted on the website:

Q1. What is the status of rulings that were made while WotC was in control of the property?

A. Anything that was done for Pokemon, goes to PUI or... well, we're allowed to have whatever work they produced for Pokemon. (Sep 11, 2003 PUI Rules Team Meeting)
Q2.So unless something changes the way a card works, those rules should be OK
A. Yes! (Sep 11, 2003 PUI Rules Team Meeting)

Q. Will PUI endorse the Compendium as a ruling source for Players, League Leaders, TOs and Judges, just as WotC has done in the past?
A. You can say that Pokemon USA thinks you're a great resource. Endorse? Sure. (Sep 11, 2003 PUI Rules Team Meeting)​

So over all if anyone can't accept a document that has been endorsed by POP themselves then they should be reported to POP.


​

 

[SteveP]

Oh, and one last thing. TOs are responsible for selecting qualified head judges. Does anyone know what guidelines, if any, that League sponsors should follow to select "qualified" gym leaders? I'm sure there's something, somewhere stating such.