Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Why do Pokémon players shun creativity?

I went to a state with a Garchomp SV empoleon deck and went 4-1, only slipping out of top-cut due to some weird pairings in the last round, and a bad tiebreak, but still it was rogue, don't think i've seen any1 else use it. but ofc i ran uxie and claydol, and staple supporters, but the tactics was new, and original :)
 
Well some decks just dont have draw power, and need their supporter slots for other things. This is where Claydol/Uxie become important. Just because you use Claydol or Uxie doesnt mean you arent creative, it just means you need hand control, and have more usefull supporters that arent draw supporters.
 
i fully encourage people to use subpar lists for some arbitrary personal satisfaction that derives from 'being different' even at the detriment to one's potential successes in a game where one is investing a lot of time.
 
Or just use an awesome rogue list and win stuff. Archetypes suck (except during the Gardy EX and Rock Lock eras. Those were OK). ;P
 
Although he was being sarcastic, the literal interpretation of ryanvergel's post is correct.

It is better to lose with a subpar original deck than win with a top-notch tried-and-true archetype with an amazing list.
 
Here is a little blast from the past but most decks are a variation of an old deck style simply called "Beat down" the concept was simply: Attack your opponent hard. You could play the variant of hand control where you lock their draw options or a mill deck to deck your opponent.

Now to be funny, but the original ideas are covered. Your job is now finding a way to tweak the tactics to make it "unique snow flake Beat Down.dec."

Now I'll be honest I get offended when people say "What in the world Claydol? I can't be rogue with Claydol!" If you can give me a logical reason not to play Claydol in your deck I listen however. I know people that just don't like Claydol and won't play it and that is fine. I do ask if you want me to look at your deck and NOT suggest Claydol/Uxie/Super Supporter you tell me so I'm not in that mindset.

I do admit part of my problem is I'm naturally competitive and will tweak your deck to perform versus the meta. If you have no interest in meta tweaks tell me, or don't get offended when I say "Drop X to add in Y."
 
Pokemon explained through CoD

I play Claydol and Uxie because I like finding different ways to play a game rather than what is really popular. Some people just want to win because they find their joy in winning (there is no problem with that) so they will find a deck that is doing well and will play that. I on the other hand find joy in feeling accomplished and making something on my own and seeing how it fares in a tournament.

There is nothing wrong with Claydol and Uxie because they do get the cards that they need to play the deck. Not all decks need that though and their are also other ways to get cards. In my opinion, Claydol and Uxie are not needed but are there as means of a way to improve your odds of winning. Now for anyone who plays Call of Duty: MW here is a comparison-

The Pokemon: Pokemon in the game are similar to the guns. You need them inorder to win.(Lets not go into some Knifing escape here.) Pokemon are essential so you need them in every deck, but you have multiple choices. Now the Primaries weapon is just like a the Main Pokemon in the deck. ( I am going to use Mother Gengar here.) So Gengar is your primary because you are attacking with it basically, and Nidoqueen is your backup because you won't be using it all the time but it is their to help you out incase your Primary just won't work. Now onto the Energies.

Energies: The energies in a Pokemon deck are the bullets that the gun shoots. The Pokemon's attacks are there but you need something to power it up. Just like a Gun without bullets is useless. (Well you an hit them with it and that is what Gyarados does you don't shoot them just hit them, Although some energy is used in the deck. The energy that is used is like a .68 caliber bullet because it hurts alot when it is used.) Without the energy you aren't going to do much so they are needed, albeit you can just try hitting people...

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: Okay now these are not needed, but are highly encouraged to be used. T/S/S are like health regeneration. You can live on what you start off with in the game but you won't be able to recover in the game. All you can do is hope to get lucky and just kinda set back and hope you can hit them hard before they hit you. I strongly suggest playing with T/S/S unless you can devise someway not to get hit.

Now to the Techs which are the attachments, equipment, and Perks: Every good deck will have some sort of tech in it. As far as I am concerned Claydol is Stopping Power, Uxie is a Grenade Launcher, Gengar is Last Stand, and Dialga G is Juggernaut, (Just because he can be a tank and can be very annoying). Now the techs that are for weaknesses are Grenades so PromoCroak is a Frag Grenade and Walls are like Stun and Smoke Grenades and Flashbangs. None of these are needed because there are other options that are available that are just as good.

Prize Cards: They are not needed to be taken to win, but are generally helpful in 93% of all matches played. Just like Killstreaks they are helpful and usually help win.

The layout: Many different combos are available but most people play the meta because they like to win. Now lets check a common deck and see how that compares to MW.
CurseGar is the deck of choice today. Let's take a look at what his setup is:
M16 (Gengar)
Desert Eagle ( Dusknoir DP)
Stun Grenade (Mr. Mime)
Frag Grenade (PromoCroak?)
Grenade Launcher (Uxie)
Stopping Power (Claydol)
Last Stand (Gengar Faintin Spell)
^^^ This a very typical setup that you will find people using online but it is not needed to win. I have one many games by straying away from the normal use and there are many different possibilities in order to win. I find joy in just making a new setup and doing excellent with it because it is my own and I like it. Now others may use the above list because they like winning and it is one the most populary used to win and it does win/kill well.

Maybe this will help people and maybe it won't, I am just trying to Demonstrate a Point.

My class that I like to use online
Mini Uzu (Silenced)
USP 45.
Frag
Stun
Bandolier
Sleight of Hand
Steady Aim

AK74u (silenced)
USP 45.
Frag
Stun
Claymore or Bomb Squad
UAV Jammer
Dead Silence
 
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The layout: Many different combos are available but most people play the meta because they like to win. Now lets check a common deck and see how that compares to MW.
CurseGar is the deck of choice today. Let's take a look at what his setup is:
M16 (Gengar)
Desert Eagle ( Dusknoir DP)
Stun Grenade (Mr. Mime)
Frag Grenade (PromoCroak?)
Grenade Launcher (Uxie)
Stopping Power (Claydol)
Last Stand (Gengar Faintin Spell)
^^^ This a very typical setup that you will find people using online but it is not needed to win. I have one many games by straying away from the normal use and there are many different possibilities in order to win. I find joy in just making a new setup and doing excellent with it because it is my own and I like it. Now others may use the above list because they like winning and it is one the most populary used to win and it does win/kill well.

It's cool that you compared it to something that you (and a lot of other people) are interested in. I play Halo myself, so I prefer to just straight up splatter things with my Ghost (Gengar).
 
It's cool that you compared it to something that you (and a lot of other people) are interested in. I play Halo myself, so I prefer to just straight up splatter things with my Ghost (Gengar).

I never got into Halo. I would compare it but don't know too much about it. I could say that Luxray Gl X is like Halo hopping though...
 
Because I play to win? Cool if your out-of-the-box thing does well, tbh though it's scarcely worth the time investment to refine make optimal a rogue that can perform well in the meta. I can quickly find a high caliber list for whatever archetype I think is the play. It takes about as much time to make a really solid list of said archetype just off the top of my head. All I need to do is go fish a little to get a feel for it and play a couple games to check for design flaws/playstyle preference. In exchange, rather than spending all Friday night testing, I can do other things and sleep well, as realistically only TOM, luck, and my own misplays will influence my performance beyond that point.

tl;dr - it's not worth the time investment to go heavily out of the box for tournaments despite the possible greater reward, personally. It's also not worth playing a bad list just to play a bad list and see how well you do, because I like winning/making returns on my investment.

This post irked me, are you actually saying that you make a return on the investment of playing Pokemon? You obviously must:

A) Value your time at a low rate

and

B) Not be talking in monetary terms

I say this because as I was reading through this post I laughed when I saw the last bold statement. If you are attempting to say you recoup the monetary investment of purchasing packs, cards, gas and other travel costs; well unless you are getting thousands in scholarships that are offsetting some loan-then you are not recouping monies.

Are you stating that your investment is your time and not monies? In this case, I would also wonder what you value your time at? Sure you save some time by not creating a wild deck, but with the same logic, you are spending time looking for already made lists, testing (to avoid net-decking), and then playing at a tournament/event. All of that time invested, surely can not create a return off of winning a Pokemon match? Unless you consider your time of such low value that winning a card game event is better than an hourly wage you could earn working and building net worth...

I should state that the ONLY reason I am being so...obnoxious about this, is because you are essentially telling people to just read what is online by the good players and then net-deck it and play. Maybe some people enjoy thinking for themselves, creating from their own hands and not being a succubus in general. I know Pokegym is a great place to raise more Remorraids that just feed off of the Mantines, but inspiring innovation is much better for the real world. What this community has is a lot of people looking to be led, and little looking to lead- or at least not appropriately. Just last week at league I played someone who had such a bizarre and different deck, that it made for one of the most interesting games I have ever played. Clearly that person follows their own guidelines, their own inspirations- and while maybe in competitive Pokemon that counts for little, it counts for a lot more everywhere else. I would ultimately suggest you try and understand other principles that guide someone considering you yourself have bizarre values that include not recouping your investment.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

i fully encourage people to use subpar lists for some arbitrary personal satisfaction that derives from 'being different' even at the detriment to one's potential successes in a game where one is investing a lot of time.

i fully encourage people who use run on sentences to keep posting only to continue using superfluous vocabulary on a website that contains a young audience or wait maybe you just like being detrimental to your own purpose
 
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It's cool if you win a big tournament with an archetype, but tbh doesn't seem like a major accomplishment to me. I didn't feel super excited about my win solely for that fact - I had a lot of fun playing games with great opponents/judges, and Wobbuffet is king, but winning with style is the only way to do it. I'll make sure that in future tournaments I'll play something more creative.

It would have been a major accomplishment for me if I won with LuxChomp:lol:, why couldn't you have just played Gravedigga:biggrin: IDK, I play whatever I think is consistent and that is what I like. Look at all of my decks, I have always made great choices but, that doesn't stop me from playing rogue. In 2006, I won a trip to Worlds with a rogue Kingdra delta deck so ya, I just play what I like:thumb:
 
I don't think it's that anyone is against creativity...
I feel like everyone has fun with this game for different reasons. Some people have fun winning, some people have fun coming up with their own material, some people just think pokemon are adorable and want to be around it.
Maybe they don't have a problem with creativity, they just don't understand the reasons why YOU enjoy the game(i.e, winning without certain cards), just like you don't totally get how THEY enjoy the game (i.e, just winning.)
 
Why do people look down on others for trying to run without Claydol for the sake of running without Claydol, for example, and other staples? Or for deliberately avoiding the BDIF? I don't understand why it's better to run a tested Archetype deck with many wins under its belt than one that gives you satisfaction or pride to play.

Deliberately running a subpar deck/ list just for the sake of being unique should be encouraged. I do it all the time. I remember that 'Claydol sucks' thread and how everyone tore the OP apart for being original. The fact is, a lot of popular decks are not that fun to play. It's more fun being weird than having an optimal deck IMO. I know a few people with my mindset, but some people are so competitive that the idea of not running key cards for the sake of it seems idiotic to them.

Let me ask you, do YOU think being creative is important or just a stupid way to make yourself lose?

This argument is rubbish. Choosing not to play Claydol when you have them and when your deck will be faster/more consistent with it is stupid. Not only are you not making use of precious resources that others would, you are deliberately sabotaging yourself.

Furthermore, there is not correlation between being unique and playing a subpar list. A rogue doesn't have to be bad.
 
It is better to lose with a subpar original deck than win with a top-notch tried-and-true archetype with an amazing list.

I disagree because, I gotta tell ya, I see people lose with bad decks all the time... and it's not really an accomplishment. I'm pretty sure most people will agree it's better to be the guy who wins Worlds with a great deck than the guy who finishes last at Roads with a crap "rogue" deck.
 
Some of my fellow league members scoff at my AR Wormadam and Kanto Fossils deck, but that just makes it all the more funnier when I win (only sometimes, but whatever). Our league is small and I generally see the same thing over and over because all the others care about is winning most of the time. Well, even if it was a big league, I'd still play whatever I wanted. The rest of the cards are meant to be played, regardless of ability and usability, so I'll play them if I can see potential or just something plain fun. Already planning a Gastrodon deck.

the guy who finishes last at Roads with a crap "rogue" deck.
Psh, I probably got last in this one City Championships and could care less. It was fun (and free). Was using a deck with Walrein, RR Starmie, and Floatzel GL LV.X. Wasn't that amazing, but it was fun using it.
 
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I enjoy being creative and not everyone see's why I give certain advice, what everyone see's as stupid advice or a stupid idea actually could be really good, not discrediting that I've said some stupid things before, IE putting reversals in a shuppet list instead of blowers. I enjoy playing the metagame decks, but with my own little twist that fit my play style, not what everyone else enjoys playing. Although i normally put claydol in EVERY deck, and after playing the deck for a week I took it out because it doesn't always need it. Another way that I enjoy being different is I REFUSE to play any SP decks, because so many people play SP's it's almost not worth building because someone is going to have the exact same build!!!
 
from what i could gather, i came up with this simple statement. we don't shun rogues or anything of the sort, we shun bad ideas. think about it, and ask if what you think is a bad idea. I play meta(rather well) and i play rogues ( even better), so just what exactly is your argument?
 
I played Luxray/Blaziken/Garchomp all season without Claydol with success and just top 16'd Mississippi Valley Regionals with Luxchomp with no Claydol. It's an amazing card but not every deck needs it. At the very same Regionals my friend Keelan Top 4'd with Speed Donphan with no Claydol. It just is what it is, play what works for you. On another note I think rogue decks are cool but I'm really comfortable with SP and I always play what I think will win, not what seems cool. Though I might try out some new ideas for the upcoming BRs since there isn't much on the line.
 
I say just go into a tournament playing what you are comfortable with. If it's Luxchomp.. then it's Luxchomp.. if it's Gengar DP/Bronzong MD/Flygon SW... then it's Gengar DP/Bronzong MD/Flygon SW.
 
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