Will Triumphant make Gyarados Tier 1 again?
- Thread starter Lancun
- Start date
Forest Gump
New Member
imo yes it will be tier 1 i think it willl see so much more play
Really? I thought all the hype was focused around Lost World/Gengar Prime ><
Thing is, if that deck's as good as the hype says, Gyarados won't have a chance. All someone would have to do is tech in a Honchkrow SV (which will probably be teched in for other matchups so that Gengar can snipe) and your deck would be dead in the water after they pull your Magikarps from the discard and Lost Zone them. If Gengar even got one of your Magikarps in the Lost Zone that's pretty much game.
Thing is, if that deck's as good as the hype says, Gyarados won't have a chance. All someone would have to do is tech in a Honchkrow SV (which will probably be teched in for other matchups so that Gengar can snipe) and your deck would be dead in the water after they pull your Magikarps from the discard and Lost Zone them. If Gengar even got one of your Magikarps in the Lost Zone that's pretty much game.
Yes it will make it theoretically better. Junk arm is like felicity's which was key to the pre rotation gyarados build. Also, junk arm will increase the speed of gyarados because it is a trainer not a supporter. Rescue energy is awesome because if you get your gyarados ko'd, you get it right back with the karp it evolved from. Hunter would be good in any deck if it is teched correctly. I know it would be good for donk decks. But, gyarados can run without it.
I've heard this time and time again that all the Gengar prime deck will have to do is tech in *random card* to help against every deck in the metagame. Its really gonna hurt consistency if a Stage 2 deck like G.Prime is trying to fit in 10-20 techs to counter the metagame (I've heard Palkia G lv X, Absol lv X, Gulpin LA, Giratina lv X, Gengar SF, Gengar AR, Gengar lv X and this is the first time that I've heard of Honchkrow SV as a "must have" tech. Keep in mind that all those other cards I've heard are considered "must have" techs too -_-). Plus the Gdos player needs to have an extra bench spot just for Honchkrow SV's poke-power to work. (yes i know hunter is there but it isnt ALWAYS there).
Anyway, a 1-1 DGX line will help against the above scenario so Gengar Prime's pokebody doesnt send any KO'd Karps or G'dos to the lost zone (don't really see how a Gengar Prime will ever KO a G'dos with its crummy attacks). Also, Gdos has the wonderful ability to send extra pokemon from its hand to the discard via countless discard methods, which will be a huge boon against Gengar players trying to randomly send pokemon to the lost zone via its first attack.
Also, Gyarados isnt COMPLETELY dead if a magikarp gets sent to the lost zone. It can still do 80 dmg a turn via expert belt, which isnt too shabby considering the no energy cost. Also, the Gdos player can use Sableye as an attacker/clean-up against G.Prime thanks to the dark weak and overconfident.
Gyarados biggest problem has been and will always be Luxray lv X. That card is EVERYWHERE, and its really the only thing stopping Gyarados from being the GG of the last two formats. Trainer locks and opposing Spiritomb start hurt Gdos too, but recent tourney results show that skilled players can play around these hindrances via Regice and a DGX tech.
Last question to consider. Lets say a G.Prime DOES manage to KO a Gyarados with its crummy attack or by being the recipient of a hit and run with Gengar AR's Curse attack (or other similar attacks). Also, the KO'd Gyarados player has rescue energy attached. Which activates first? G.Prime's poke-body or Rescue energy??
Porii Sames
Active Member
Gyarados will be even more amazing than it already is. It's still an amazing deck.
dialga master
Member
To counter gyra, Gengar prime players will play lost remover, which lost zones a special energy card attached to your opponents active pokemon.
@ xcfrisco: I believe gengar primes pokebody would activate first.
@ xcfrisco: I believe gengar primes pokebody would activate first.
No they wont cause its completly pointless. And there are at least 4 gengars decks and non of them should loose to gyarados
baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
Why do you believe that? Do you have similar rulings or precedents to support it? Is it just a guess? Is it just what you want to happen?
I found this from the JPN Q&A (courtesy of PokeBeach)
Not official and not exactly the same situation (Gengar is a PokeBody, not an attack effect), but still interesting.
prodigal_fanboy
New Member
Gengar Prime will play four Lost Remover, four Mew Prime, four Lost Zone Win Condition Stadium, 1 SF / 1 AR / 1 TR / 1 Lv. X, 4 Hunter, Spiritomb LL, Mr. Mime LL, and everything else Gengar decks have been playing to stay on top.
Yeah okay. Sounds real good.
Yeah okay. Sounds real good.
Gengar Prime will walk all over Gyara. If Gengar ever catches Gyara with a Karp in its hand, that's already -30 damage to the deck. That means that Sableye can't even risk Impersonating a Collector for Karps, which already puts Gengar ahead of Gyara. Let's not forget the presence of Judge (which isn't exclusive to Gengar) to shuffle away any attempt to save Collectors (Say, if Sableye Impersonates a Cyrus' Conspiracy to get a Collector for the next turn).
Also, there's the issue of Rescue Energy. Here's a reference:
@Baby Mario: Interesting find. I think all of this will depend on how Rescue Energy is worded. The card itself makes no reference to the discard pile according to Pokebeach's translation. All English translations of putting Pokemon elsewhere after a KO instead of the Discard Pile usually have a text referencing it. But this card simply states the Pokemon is put in your hand after a KO.
For example, a similar, English ruling:
Ectoplasm speaks of discard, while Rescue Energy does not.
Secondly, Gengar may KO Gyarados with damage counters. According to Pokebeach, Rescue Energy only activates if the Pokemon was KO by damage. If Gengar Prime uses its second attack to KO Gyarados, then that's another -30 damage to the deck. Even though 4 damage counters is an unlikely way to KO a Gyarados, Gengar can still set up 2HKO's by other means. Why are we arguing over its ruling though? The only damaging move Gengar can make is through its Lv.X.
I don't really see Gyara making a comeback. In addition to Lost Zone threats, the format is filled with Trainer locks and also a very common weakness in Luxray Lv.X.
Also, there's the issue of Rescue Energy. Here's a reference:
Pokebeach said:
@Baby Mario: Interesting find. I think all of this will depend on how Rescue Energy is worded. The card itself makes no reference to the discard pile according to Pokebeach's translation. All English translations of putting Pokemon elsewhere after a KO instead of the Discard Pile usually have a text referencing it. But this card simply states the Pokemon is put in your hand after a KO.
For example, a similar, English ruling:
Compendium LV.X said:
Ectoplasm speaks of discard, while Rescue Energy does not.
Secondly, Gengar may KO Gyarados with damage counters. According to Pokebeach, Rescue Energy only activates if the Pokemon was KO by damage. If Gengar Prime uses its second attack to KO Gyarados, then that's another -30 damage to the deck. Even though 4 damage counters is an unlikely way to KO a Gyarados, Gengar can still set up 2HKO's by other means. Why are we arguing over its ruling though? The only damaging move Gengar can make is through its Lv.X.
I don't really see Gyara making a comeback. In addition to Lost Zone threats, the format is filled with Trainer locks and also a very common weakness in Luxray Lv.X.
Porii Sames
Active Member
For the 50,000,000th time, Gengar Prime will NOT be the insanely huge BDIF as predicted. It still has to risk getting disrupted (and donked) by Sablock, and there's several things that can just overrun it (i.e. Luxchomp) and disrupt it. It will be good, but not BDIF.
jeffrey123
New Member
I played a gyarados made for triumphiant and wow, thing's insane. Ridiculously overpowered
Politoed666
New Member
Let me point out something. If your Magikarps get Lost Zone'd, you lose the game. Yes, Junk Arm in particular will break Gyarados to a point, or at least make it better, but when a strategy to greatly weaken your main attacker is also released, that's problematic.
No, Lost Zoning Karps is not a sure thing by any means while running Gengar Prime, but it can be done. And when it does happen, it's rough. Additionally, let's look at the reasons Gyarados isn't especially playable in the current format to begin with: It's weak to Luxray GL, it has no sniping options, and it can be shut down by certain locks or ruined by one Power Spray.
It's sort of a meh deck in my opinion. Very good in theory, but for some reason not especially great as far as playability. I don't see Triumphant doing that much to improve that.
No, Lost Zoning Karps is not a sure thing by any means while running Gengar Prime, but it can be done. And when it does happen, it's rough. Additionally, let's look at the reasons Gyarados isn't especially playable in the current format to begin with: It's weak to Luxray GL, it has no sniping options, and it can be shut down by certain locks or ruined by one Power Spray.
It's sort of a meh deck in my opinion. Very good in theory, but for some reason not especially great as far as playability. I don't see Triumphant doing that much to improve that.
BlisseyRocks
New Member
I agree with the karps getting lost zoned, but triumphant really should increase this decks consistency to get an early gyarados. Also why would a power spray cripple the deck? What powers does it use besides regice and crobat?
Politoed666
New Member
<seventeen>If that's your way of saying that Gyarados will be more popular than Gengar Prime, then I disagree. Even if it's not as great as people had hoped, it will still be played. That's enough to scare off a Gyarados player.
Porii Sames
Active Member
No, Gyarados is still, imo, underrated. Watch, in cities, everyone and their mother will be playing Gengar. By states, it will be an uncommon occurence. By regionals, it will be a rogue deck that won't do anything.
It's not that hard to play around. That and my deck has quite a few methods of stopping it.
It's not that hard to play around. That and my deck has quite a few methods of stopping it.