Zpst bdif?

[psychup2034]

hmm.. there is some truth to this but, and this a big but;

you are assuming too much. perhaps the biggest assumption you are making is that goth players play to beat black belts, when in reality most decks don't run it and most goth players dont play against it.

Good players using Gothitelle generally play to beat Black Belts. When you have the lock, you are completely in control of the game, and your opponent will have no way of recovering even if you're giving him/her prizes.

Once gothitelle has the lock, they'll feed you prized by using reuniclus to knock out things on their bench. That way they can use twins, and you can't use black belt.

^ This is right.

 

[cabd]

hmm.. there is some truth to this but, and this a big but;

you are assuming too much. perhaps the biggest assumption you are making is that goth players play to beat black belts, when in reality most decks don't run it and most goth players dont play against it.

Black belt is this format's power spray. Good players will assume it is in their opponent's hands at all times, and be surprised to see that it was not.

 

[N plasma]

I think 1 black belt would be worth the space it can be very game changing if there second one didn't have enough energy ko zekrom.
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[StormFront]

ZPST, is evidently a tier 1 deck based on BR results. The one aspect I like about the deck compared to Tyram is that it has more room for techs, but it doesn't have the same level of consistency a Tyram deck has.

 

[calisupra2nr]

There is no reason for them to not do this They can play Twins and stop an opponent from playing Black Belt all at once. If your bold post in truth only has value against foolish players, I would say it was your post that's foolish.

Good players using Gothitelle generally play to beat Black Belts. When you have the lock, you are completely in control of the game, and your opponent will have no way of recovering even if you're giving him/her prizes.



^ This is right.

Black belt is this format's power spray. Good players will assume it is in their opponent's hands at all times, and be surprised to see that it was not.

No need for individual replies here.

Let me just say that since you all seem to be very high on black belt's popularity in combination with Goth being god tier, that I will let tournament results do the talking. If Goth comes back to dominate cities and regionals while ZPST fails- I will insert foot in mouth, but until then I will just sit back and have my own opinions.

 

[Ignatious]

No need for individual replies here.

Let me just say that since you all seem to be very high on black belt's popularity in combination with Goth being god tier, that I will let tournament results do the talking. If Goth comes back to dominate cities and regionals while ZPST fails- I will insert foot in mouth, but until then I will just sit back and have my own opinions.

WOW. Now you are changing the merits of the conversation in a desperate attempt to be correct. NO ONE said Goth was god tier. NO ONE said Goth was going to perform extremely well at Regs. We simply said Black Belt is a faulty counter. Respond to what we said, not what your interpretation of what we said. You might hold more weight in a debate if you do so.

 

[N plasma]

So I have noticed two ways of playing zpst, one with 4 zek and 3 tornadus. The other 3 zek and 4 tornadus. What I think is interesting about this is that the one card difference can completely change the strategy. I personly like the more tornadus version because I feel it is easier to attack faster. However I see how more zek could be better with higher damage out put and more hp. My question is which one do you guys think is best and why?
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[untitled]

I like 4 Tornadus because it means less fizzling late-game. 80 is usually enough early in the game, and it decreases your dependence on pulling off Pachi/Min in the first couple turns. I started out with 4 Zek, but quickly changed around and I like the new way much better.

 

[Barkjon]

ZPST is obviously Tier 1. That much has been ridiculously obvious. In my opinion, the Tiers would be...

Tier 1: ZPST, Tyram
Tier 1.5: Gothitelle, Stage 1's (specifically Megazord w or w/o cinno), Donphan/Dragons
Tier 2: MewBox, MagneBoar

ZPST has a ridiculously amazing early game. However, it tends to struggle against the Donphan we see out there occasionally (and don't throw "TORNAUDS K1LZ HIM" at me, because Tornadus only 2HKO's Donphan and I, at least ,usually play Ruins of Alph when I play Donphan) and has a horrible lategame.

In my opinion the real trick to ZPST is to either sweep earlygame and completely use all resources (specifically against slower decks) or to really balance out your resources so that you don't sputter and die out while still taking prizes.

If we get some of the extremely good people playing ZPST and winning Regs, then we know it could be BDIF.

 

[Nintendan]

For me, I don't see Zekrom as BDIF but it's definitely a big contender. There's too many things around that give him a bit of trouble. It can beat tyRam but it has a bit of trouble with it, Gothitelle/Ross run all over and any deck with Donphan can give it a hard time. Donphan Dragons (=P) especially since it covers Tornadus's weakness.

 

[calisupra2nr]

IMO Goth, Tyram, Prime Time are tier 1. They have winning match ups or even match ups against EVERY other meta deck, besides Goth losing to Mew, which is makes up for with VERY strong Zekrom and S1 match ups. Zekrom loses to Goth 10-90, Prime Time 40-60, Ross 10-90, and S1 Rush 40-60.

WOW. Interesting that apparently no one said he was god tier (aka top tier) and yet you did. This entire thread you have done nothing but attempt to reduce ZPST to garbage with comments that imply he can only win against bad hands and bad players. Either you lost to a ZPST and your bitter about it (which is sad) or you are just completely ignorant. Most people would put ZPST in top tier and most people would be right in doing so. Don't go on the offense until you have a defense first.

I think we are through here. :thumb:

 

[Ignatious]

WOW. Interesting that apparently no one said he was god tier (aka top tier) and yet you did. This entire thread you have done nothing but attempt to reduce ZPST to garbage with comments that imply he can only win against bad hands and bad players. Either you lost to a ZPST and your bitter about it (which is sad) or you are just completely ignorant. Most people would put ZPST in top tier and most people would be right in doing so. Don't go on the offense until you have a defense first.

I think we are through here. :thumb:

No one said Goth was god tier. I said top tier. To be among the best is much different than being among the gods. I'm sure that is a very agreeable statement. Again you are changing what I said. You are desperate to save face and can't accept that you were wrong.

Black Belt is NOT a Goth counter. That's what this is about. It's not about my distaste for TZPS, but take a stab at it if you like, I guess. You have nothing productive to say. I'm not going to reiterate my TZPS points, if you want just take a look at what I said earlier. Either way bringing this up is a sad effort to change the subject. Your tech is bad get over it.

 

[N plasma]

No one said Goth was god tier. I said top tier. To be among the best is much different than being among the gods. I'm sure that is a very agreeable statement. Again you are changing what I said. You are desperate to save face and can't accept that you were wrong.

Black Belt is NOT a Goth counter. That's what this is about. It's not about my distaste for TZPS, but take a stab at it if you like, I guess. You have nothing productive to say. I'm not going to reiterate my TZPS points, if you want just take a look at what I said earlier. Either way bringing this up is a sad effort to change the subject. Your tech is bad get over it.

Dude, really? Why do your posts have to be so rude black belt CAN work as a counter is it the best one? Absolutely not but it's not that bad.
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[Ignatious]

Dude, really? Why do your posts have to be so rude black belt CAN work as a counter is it the best one? Absolutely not but it's not that bad.
Posted with Mobile style...

I'll take it. I can be rude when I want to be.

No it cannot work as a counter. Maybe against newbies, I suppose. Any player with experience will give KOs to the opponent via Reuniclus. As Goth takes prizes, so does their opponent, until the very last prize that Goth will take, and then assume victory. Meanwhile Black Belt sits in your hand, it may as well just be another trainer that's being locked.

Don't get me wrong, Black Belt isn't a bad card, it just can't counter Gothitelle.

 

[calisupra2nr]

No one said Goth was god tier. I said top tier. To be among the best is much different than being among the gods. I'm sure that is a very agreeable statement. Again you are changing what I said. You are desperate to save face and can't accept that you were wrong.

Black Belt is NOT a Goth counter. That's what this is about. It's not about my distaste for TZPS, but take a stab at it if you like, I guess. You have nothing productive to say. I'm not going to reiterate my TZPS points, if you want just take a look at what I said earlier. Either way bringing this up is a sad effort to change the subject. Your tech is bad get over it.

My GOD...and I thought I could be pompous at times! You have set a new bar bud.

You are just using semantics. God Tier/Top Tier they are the same thing...people use god tier to describe the highest tier possible and you are just trying to use the wording to cover yourself, which is ironic and hysterical that you try and tell me I am saving face....cmon now we all know who is covering their tracks here :wink:

I can accept that I am wrong, watch: I am wrong and accept that black belt against really good Goth players is not going to win you the match. Simple as that.

You on the other hand have much more deep seeded issues in that this entire thread has been you ranting about ZPST being useless against good hands/decks/players. I think you can stop beating around the bush and just come out and say something like, "I am upset that I lost to a ZPST" Everytime you post in this thread it is like reading a personal vendetta written by someone out to seek revenge.

As for this thread, I have read enough from Ignatious to last me a year so I am going to mark this thread as closed and avoid reading anything further.

 

[Ignatious]

My GOD...and I thought I could be pompous at times! You have set a new bar bud.

You are just using semantics. God Tier/Top Tier they are the same thing...people use god tier to describe the highest tier possible and you are just trying to use the wording to cover yourself, which is ironic and hysterical that you try and tell me I am saving face....cmon now we all know who is covering their tracks here :wink:

I can accept that I am wrong watch...I am wrong and accept that black belt against really good Goth players is not going to win you the match. Simple as that.

You on the other hand have much more deep seeded issues in that this entire thread has been you ranting about ZPST being useless against good hands/decks/players. I think you can stop beating around the bush and just come out and say something like, "I am upset that I lost to a ZPST" Everytime you post in this thread it is like reading a personal vendetta written by someone out to seek revenge.

As for this thread, I have read enough from Ignatious to last me a year so I am going to mark this thread as closed and avoid reading anything further.

Ah the good old 'insult and leave' trick. This reminds me of my gf, she'll call me out on something in front of our friends and quickly walk away, hoping I don't find the time to get my word in. Well In that situation and in this one I'll surely respond.

You can admit you're wrong, but you're still merely saving face. You're now attempting to hide it. However your tactic is to make me look as bad as possible. The worse I look, the more face you save. You throw insults at me, while playing with what I say, or my intentions.

This conversation is not, and has not been about TZPS or about Gothitelles tier. You have no room to claim god/top tier are the same. You have no room to claim I secretly just don't like Zekrom. You clearly don't know enough about either to make a strong point. Factoring in what I had JUST finished saying, it would only make sense that your only goal is to insult.

There is nothing in this thread that I need to defend. My only goal was to explain my offense. Black Belt is bad. If you can understand this then why even continue the conversation? Why post back at all if you know you're wrong. Factoring in what I had JUST finished saying, it would only make sense that your goal is to insult.

 

[cabd]

Sigh. So many posts, so many ad hominem attacks....

Because I feel that this is a topic worth continuing a health discussion on, I shall try to "re-rail" the train.

I believe that the release of Noble Victories will NOT make ZPS BDIF. I think it will remain tier one, but will now share a spot with both dragon decks.

My projected meta:

Tier one:
ZPST
Tyram
Kyugatr

Tier two:
Primetime
Gothitelle
Donphan Dragons (a water type dragon does wonders for the deck's otherwise shoddy matchups)

Tier Three:
Stage ones (Weakened by Cryogonal/Kyurem)
Mewbox/YMCA (hurt by kyurem spread)
Ross.dek
Yamato.dek (May go up due to less people running donphan)
Durant Swarm

Tier Four:
Blastoise Variants
Seismatoad Round Swarm (Stuck low until we see wigglytuff, sorry)
Beartic Variants
Lostagr

 

[Rogue Archetype]

Hi ALL

PLEASE REMEMBER ...

• Discuss and debate CARD USE
• Discuss and debate STRATEGY
• but
• Do NOT shift your focus to the actual person.

Please don't allow yourselves to fall into the trap of insulting EACH OTHER when the real issue is card use.

It's only a "big deal" until the next set comes along guys ...

 

[N plasma]

So I have noticed two ways of playing zpst, one with 4 zek and 3 tornadus. The other 3 zek and 4 tornadus. What I think is interesting about this is that the one card difference can completely change the strategy. I personly like the more tornadus version because I feel it is easier to attack faster. However I see how more zek could be better with higher damage out put and more hp. My question is which one do you guys think is best and why?
Posted with Mobile style...

I feel another very good discussion.
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[ajhawk]

Sigh. So many posts, so many ad hominem attacks....

Because I feel that this is a topic worth continuing a health discussion on, I shall try to "re-rail" the train.

I believe that the release of Noble Victories will NOT make ZPS BDIF. I think it will remain tier one, but will now share a spot with both dragon decks.

My projected meta:

Tier one:
ZPST
Tyram
Kyugatr

Tier two:
Primetime
Gothitelle
Donphan Dragons (a water type dragon does wonders for the deck's otherwise shoddy matchups)

Hey, I'm curious. How much testing have you done with the NV cards. I ask because I am curious as to how KyuGatr has been running for you.

For me, it has not been able to keep up with tyRam and ZPST. I have found that with ample PP those two decks still get the better of Kyurem. It takes too long to get anywhere with the spread damage for me. I have found the spread damage to be relatively manageable with just a single or double copy of Max Potion (and Junk Arm), a 2-1 tech line of Blissey, or even the use of Defenders/Eviolite benched Pokes. Also, Feraligatr is just a Catcher OHKO waiting to happen. Then if you can't get a second one up, Kyurem just takes too long to get going again.

Have you had any of these problems?

(I know we've had run ins in the past, but I respect you as a player and am honestly asking your opinion. peace)