Worlds Judging... questionable conduct?

[Water Pokemon Master]

Oh yes, I heard so many stories about rude judges this year. I was victim of it myself a few times. Some of the adults really need to lighten up when they're running these events. This isn't the Olympics or the tournament to end all tournaments. It's a KID'S GAME, and most people do not have bad intentions in trying to watch some of the games.

The psychologist in me was making me think some of the judges have no personal opportunities in real life to have control over anyone, and were thus "getting high" off exerting power and control at the event. Like you know, "Oh, I am so important. Don't do that! Get out of there! Look everyone, I'm so cool controlling people!" This one guy, who I kept trying to find out what his name was, was jumping down everyone's throat for even LOOKING at one of the top cut games. Made me so angry. If I am ever a judge, I would NEVER behave like that. Even some of the volunteers were raising their eyebrows at how some of the judges were acting.

Of course, the majority of the judges were certainly not behaving this way. There was a lot of professionalism. There just seemed to be a noticeable amount of judges acting like "jerks," to put it generally. I'm not at all saying all judges are evil or anything, and I am not one to generalize a whole group of people based off several individuals' actions. I just saw on at least six or seven occasions different judges being rather rude, which is more than noticeable.

 

[SteveP]

I've helped and witnessed enough events to know that some judges come across as abusive and arrogant to others. Often, judges are under severe pressure to control their domain. Sometimes, tactfulness "flies out the window" when things boil over.

I've made recommendations to staff, in private, when I've witnessed excessive outbursts. We can all help each other be a little more calm in times of stress.

The days of watching matches up-close-and-personal are gone. At least at this year's Worlds, PUI did the best thing ever - they televised the finals on closed-circuit. Very well done!

 

[EeveeLover]

I guess I am wondering where these issues are involving Judges - Lab Coats or Staff - Red Shirts.

I was one of the Red Shirts that was dealing with Security issues - that is my real job as well. I know the Red Shirts went above and beyond in their actions to provide security as instructed.

I am sure that many folks found me to be a jerk in what I was doing, but that was the job from PUI. Keep people out of certain areas and away from games. Not always did we get told a reason, so not always did we have a reason to give. We just did our jobs.

Yes, sometimes people get rude, but it is usually a two way street. After telling the same person the same thing over and over, sometimes you just have to get a bit mean about it.

I worked on the Masters side for security and a couple other ares during the weekend and I did not get anyone complaining too much, they seemed to understand for the most part.

 

[NoPoke]

just control freaks getting high on the power??? You have GOT to be kidding me.

IF there is a serious complaint behind any of this then it needs to be sent directly to POP and not synthesised here. POP does take this kind of accusation seriously.

 

[ryanvergel]

There is NOTHING more important than providing a positive, exciting, and fair tournament to all players, parents and spectators, from our standpoint.

I received nothing but comments of praise about our judge, translator, and volunteer staff this weekend on site.

I made myself available to ANYONE who had a comment or concern and wanted to speak with me. Mike and Pete did the same.

Don't let yourself get so far past the time in which the issue you experienced happened, that you can do nothing but get more negative about it. Take care of it immediately, and even if you don't get the answer you're hoping for at the time, you'll feel better that you spoke with someone about it, and at least got thier point of view on the matter.

Thanks,
Dave

Thank you for letting myself and others know how valued our input is and what to do should we have an experience like that again.

Let me say that besides three unique moments of rudeness from a redshirt/judge the staffing was superb. Things went smoothly, no outstanding delays, everything was managed well.

These large events keep getting better and more organized. Very good job from all the staff this year. I'm positive that people who were rude probably didn't do it on purpose- but usually when people are being rude they don't do it on purpose anyways. I'm sure the best interests were being looked out for, but sometimes people make mistakes and now we know to immediately address them by talking to any higher-up.

 

[Lawman]

Oh yes, I heard so many stories about rude judges this year. I was victim of it myself a few times. Some of the adults really need to lighten up when they're running these events. This isn't the Olympics or the tournament to end all tournaments. It's a KID'S GAME, and most people do not have bad intentions in trying to watch some of the games.

The psychologist in me was making me think some of the judges have no personal opportunities in real life to have control over anyone, and were thus "getting high" off exerting power and control at the event. Like you know, "Oh, I am so important. Don't do that! Get out of there! Look everyone, I'm so cool controlling people!" This one guy, who I kept trying to find out what his name was, was jumping down everyone's throat for even LOOKING at one of the top cut games. Made me so angry. If I am ever a judge, I would NEVER behave like that. Even some of the volunteers were raising their eyebrows at how some of the judges were acting.

Of course, the majority of the judges were certainly not behaving this way. There was a lot of professionalism. There just seemed to be a noticeable amount of judges acting like "jerks," to put it generally. I'm not at all saying all judges are evil or anything, and I am not one to generalize a whole group of people based off several individuals' actions. I just saw on at least six or seven occasions different judges being rather rude, which is more than noticeable.

Walk a mile on one of the staff's shoes just ONCE and you will get a completely different view. The staff and volunteers bend over backwards and give give give to the game and the people so events like this go off as smoothly as they do. WOW.....glad a college student is able to psycho-analyze an entire group so quickly!
/end sarcasm

Keith

 

[the_sniper]

Walk a mile on one of the staff's shoes just ONCE and you will get a completely different view. The staff and volunteers bend over backwards and give give give to the game and the people so events like this go off as smoothly as they do. WOW.....glad a college student is able to psycho-analyze an entire group so quickly!
/end sarcasm

Keith

What Keith said is perfect. AWESOME event, great time on this end. I played both weekend
days and had Z-E-R-O experiences like you have described. The judging was super! And
I'd like to personally thank EVERY judge for their efforts and good work.


Low class post wpm, but sadly par for the course when it comes to you

 

[Krucifier]

I was watching my friends matches in the grinders in support of them. At about round 5 one of them comes over to me and demands that I leave and accuses me of "deck scouting". I don't know why he only said it to *ME*, when there were hundreds of other people watching the Seniors matches.

Heck, I wasn't even playing IN the grinder...

I felt insulted.

 

[Lazorman55]

I have only been playing for about a year now, but i must say that worlds was a great experience for me.
Many great people to meet, many great things to see.
I was dissapointed by 2 things that happened to me though.
I'm no judge, nor am familiar with how these kind of things should be handled, but here is what happened to me.

Round 1
I am playing my game when all of a sudden SDPokemom' comes up to our table and asks"Which one of you is Justin S."
I told her it was me, and she told me that my decklist had 68 cards on it, and that i was to recieve a gameloss, and must return my decklist with the error's fixed before round 2 starts so i wont be dropped.
I at that moment was VERY shocked, because i know my handwriting is bad, but i was darn sure that i checked my list twice for any errors.
I was in clear control of the game, and all of that was thrown away by this "error".
I could not appeal to a head judge or anything, as SDPokemom' is the seniors head judge.
So i waited a few minutes for her to come back with my decklist, and i check over it.
IMO, there wasnt anything wrong with it, so i went up to David Schwimmer, explained my situation, and was sent back to Pokemom'.
I told her that i did not see anything wrong with the decklist, and she went to the judge who checked it.
He said that the Double Rainbow's and the Call's looked like 8's.
Now, im not entirely sure how my 4 could possibly look like an 8.
Another judge sitting right next to him said that it looked more like a 4, not an 8.
But at this point, nothing could be done.
I know i have to go X-2 to definitley make it in.
Heres the question to this one.
Should she have checked my deck to see if i was playing 68 cards?

Round 8

Right now im 5-2, if i win this next game i could possibly make it in.
Im in 29th seed, with a top 21 cut.
So in the middle of the game, i notice my opponent is playing rather slow.
So i kindly ask him if he could speed up his turns.
He is still playing at the same rate 2-3 turns later, so i call over Pokemom' and ask her if i could get a judge to monitor the pace of play.
She calls a judge over, and he is now watching the pace of play.
Now, im not trying to sound rude, but this is where i started to get frustrated.
10 minutes left was called a while ago, and the kid is playing maybe a few seconds faster than usual.
I end my turn with a psychic lock attack, it is now his turn.
He draws his card, and just sits there for about 5 seconds thinking.
He announces "Energy Forcing" and lets go of the energy card.
I remind him that he is psychic locked, and that he cannot use powers while psychic locked.
It wasnt the first time he was "Plox'd"
He then attaches his energy for the turn which took about 10 seconds, then he starts to look at his hand.
He puts 1 card face down on the table, and i am puzzled as to what he is doing.
He then puts another face down card on the table, and announces "Cosmic Power".
I remind him once again that he is psychic locked.
Time was then called.
Now, heres the question to this one.
Should he have recieved any sort of penalty for using energy forcing/attempting to use cosmic power while psychic locked?
The reason i ask this is because had he not "forgotten" that he was psychic locked, he would of attacked me so i could at least get a turn.
In that turn i would of been able to KO his leafeon level x for the tie, and IMO won the match.
But because of those 2 time consuming moves, i did not get a turn.

If i can get an awnser to those questions i would GREATLY appreciate it.

Thank you,

Lazorman55

 

[EeveeLover]

Lazorman55:

This is an issue to take up with PUI directly, not get opinions here on a forum that has no control over the situations.

 

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

My only complaint about the watching of the top cut was that one side of the matches was basically unviewable the whole time. One side people could be close and see what was going on, and many many people really enjoy this, and I'm talking all top cut rounds, not just the finals which was great on the big screen. The opposite side was completely closed off, and it was impossible to see some matches except for maybe a prize count. Fortunately, the exciting top 4 match was on the close side, but the other top 4 match of Khanh and Jimmy was also very hard to see.

 

[Rocketman]

I think there is a thread like this every year........f you all knew how hard they work and how many hours they put in worlds, a huge thank you would be more like it.

 

[SteveP]

Are you sure Lazorman that the judge said you wrote 8 Call and 8 DRE? If so, that's weird. Every good deck checker knows you can't have 8 special energies of one kind.

1. Regarding whether SDPokemon should've counted your deck, I'd say yes if you were given a game loss, and here's why. Simply having an illegal decklist with a legal deck is only a CAUTION and would NOT have required a game stopage, UNLESS the judge felt your deck was illegal. And, in that case they SHOULD'VE checked your deck to verify it was illegal. If your deck was legal, you were WRONGED for getting a game loss, plain and simple. Was that the case?

2. SLOW-PLAY and STALLING are so subjective, I don't know the answer, I wasn't there. If the judge felt you were RUSHING your opponent, that may have impacted whether they would may the SLOW-PLAY call or not. Certainly, trying to use your powers with the lock on could've warranted a penalty, caution probably at the most.

SteveP

 

[Lazorman55]

Are you sure Lazorman that the judge said you wrote 8 Call and 8 DRE? If so, that's weird. Every good deck checker knows you can't have 8 special energies of one kind.

1. Regarding whether SDPokemon should've counted your deck, I'd say yes if you were given a game loss, and here's why. Simply having an illegal decklist with a legal deck is only a CAUTION and would NOT have required a game stopage, UNLESS the judge felt your deck was illegal. And, in that case they SHOULD'VE checked your deck to verify it was illegal. If your deck was legal, you were WRONGED for getting a game loss, plain and simple. Was that the case?

2. SLOW-PLAY and STALLING are so subjective, I don't know the answer, I wasn't there. If the judge felt you were RUSHING your opponent, that may have impacted whether they would may the SLOW-PLAY call or not. Certainly, trying to use your powers with the lock on could've warranted a penalty, caution probably at the most.

SteveP

That is what the judge told me.

1.Yea, that was the case.

2.I figured there was some sort of penalty.

Thank you SteveP, I really appreciate your awnser.

 

[BLiZzArD]

Are you sure Lazorman that the judge said you wrote 8 Call and 8 DRE? If so, that's weird. Every good deck checker knows you can't have 8 special energies of one kind.

1. Regarding whether SDPokemon should've counted your deck, I'd say yes if you were given a game loss, and here's why. Simply having an illegal decklist with a legal deck is only a CAUTION and would NOT have required a game stopage, UNLESS the judge felt your deck was illegal. And, in that case they SHOULD'VE checked your deck to verify it was illegal. If your deck was legal, you were WRONGED for getting a game loss, plain and simple. Was that the case?

2. SLOW-PLAY and STALLING are so subjective, I don't know the answer, I wasn't there. If the judge felt you were RUSHING your opponent, that may have impacted whether they would may the SLOW-PLAY call or not. Certainly, trying to use your powers with the lock on could've warranted a penalty, caution probably at the most.

SteveP

We didn't check decks this year we checked deck lists and when we noticed a problem we addressed it illegal deck list was penalized ect. wasn't involved in this issue so I have no comments on it.

BLiZz

 

[ryanvergel]

Are you sure Lazorman that the judge said you wrote 8 Call and 8 DRE? If so, that's weird. Every good deck checker knows you can't have 8 special energies of one kind.

1. Regarding whether SDPokemon should've counted your deck, I'd say yes if you were given a game loss, and here's why. Simply having an illegal decklist with a legal deck is only a CAUTION and would NOT have required a game stopage, UNLESS the judge felt your deck was illegal. And, in that case they SHOULD'VE checked your deck to verify it was illegal. If your deck was legal, you were WRONGED for getting a game loss, plain and simple. Was that the case?

2. SLOW-PLAY and STALLING are so subjective, I don't know the answer, I wasn't there. If the judge felt you were RUSHING your opponent, that may have impacted whether they would may the SLOW-PLAY call or not. Certainly, trying to use your powers with the lock on could've warranted a penalty, caution probably at the most.

SteveP

Yes, lazorman is telling the truth. My friend was telling me the story of the guy who did it, and he was staffing the deck checks next to the deck checker in question- and he told it exactly the same way. The judge was literally causing a fuss. So unless the two parties are telling the same story without talking to each other... it really did happen.

 

[NoPoke]

SteveP you need to re-read the penalty guidelines for the recommended penalty for a deck problem found during a game. It is not a caution.

• If decklist or deck problems are caught during a match, a Game Loss should be issued. The player is restricted as to what changes can be made, as outlined below.

 

[SteveP]

We didn't check decks this year we checked deck lists and when we noticed a problem we addressed it illegal deck list was penalized ect. wasn't involved in this issue so I have no comments on it.

BLiZz

Illegal decklist in only half of the infraction. So, unless they were using different penalty guidelines, the deck should've been checked, especially if a game loss was given.

Sometimes, they do things differently at Worlds. Maybe this was one of those times.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

SteveP you need to re-read the penalty guidelines for the recommended penalty for a deck problem found during a game. It is not a caution.

I stand corrected.

• If decklist or deck problems are caught during a match, a Game Loss should be issued. The player is restricted as to what changes can be made, as outlined below.
• If decklist or deck problems are caught between rounds, the penalties listed below should be used. The player is restricted as to what changes can be made, as outlined below.

So, I guess the only defense is, when was the error actually discovered?

Anyway, it seems kind of weird that a different kind of penalty would be issued depending on when it was discovered. I guess it comes down to letting someone play with what MIGHT be an illegal deck. In this situation, it would've been quite simple to check for 8 Call Energies and 8 DREs without disrupting the game, ESPECIALLY if a deck checker made a judgement call on what was legible and was abnormally weird (way too may specials). Just my opinion.

So SDPokemon, I'm sorry. You were completely within the rules for giving the game loss.

Bummer that a Game Loss can be given for a penalty that is so minor when discovered between rounds.

 

[bullados]

Walk a mile on one of the staff's shoes just ONCE and you will get a completely different view. The staff and volunteers bend over backwards and give give give to the game and the people so events like this go off as smoothly as they do.

Keith

Quoted For TRUTH. The staff and Judges for this game, especially those at US Nats level and above, really go above and beyond what's expected of them, and I give my hats off to all of them. And I don't include myself in that grouping. These people who have Judged and Staffed many upon many high level events on their own time and out of their own pockets truly deserve all of the accolades that we can give them, because they are truly the people who hold this game together.

 

[BLiZzArD]

Illegal decklist in only half of the infraction. So, unless they were using different penalty guidelines, the deck should've been checked, especially if a game loss was given.

Sometimes, they do things differently at Worlds. Maybe this was one of those times.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:


I stand corrected.

So, I guess the only defense is, when was the error actually discovered?

Anyway, it seems kind of weird that a different kind of penalty would be issued depending on when it was discovered. I guess it comes down to letting someone play with what MIGHT be an illegal deck. In this situation, it would've been quite simple to check for 8 Call Energies and 8 DREs without disrupting the game, ESPECIALLY if a deck checker made a judgement call on what was legible. Just my opinion.

So SDPokemon, I'm sorry. You were completely within the rules for giving the game loss.

Bummer that a Game Loss can be given for a penalty that is so minor when discovered between rounds.

I meant that we checked the lists and then address any issue we saw which means we took it to the deck ect. Like I said I wasn't involved in this ruling so I can't explain what happened.

BLiZz