Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Scizor/Cherrim

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I dislike quick ball for a few reasons:

It has a small chance of actually getting the card I need. Poke Ball always has a 50% chance to get ANY card. Quick Ball will always get a card, yes, but what are the chances it is the card I want?

Using it with only 1 pokemon in play, none in hand, will give me a 4/15 of getting a scizor, 3/15 to get a scyther, 3/15 to get a cherrim or cherub, etc. So I have a little better than 25% of getting a Scizor when I want it, and like 20% or less for any other pokemon.

If I ever have a Scizor prized, it's off the bat 3/15 , or really at best 3/12 early on. At best 25% chance, and I will have a Scizor prized at least 35% of my games since I run 4. That means that over a third of my matches I only have at best a 25% chance to rip Scizor off with QB.

I'd rather have the 50% for any pokemon than to get ANY pokemon, with only 15-30% of getting the actual pokemon I desire. The odds of desired success really don't warrant the playing of this card over Poke Ball IMO.

Poke Ball is easier to burn than Quick Ball. At least you can always thin your hand and deck with poke ball if you plan to use a draw supporter.

I dislike revealing the contents of my deck. My decks are good, take a lot of time, and don't get revealed on the table to just anyone. I could quick ball and give away the number of supporters I play, if I play switch, warp point, stadiums, what kind of supporters I play, if I use great ball or poke blower or poke drawer or warp point, basically they know the ins and outs of my deck, and I guarantee that any good player will exploit all the free knowledge you give him through a quick ball.

You think I'm not counting cards when I see a quick ball being used!?
 
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definitely think about like 3-4 unkown R's with 3-4 TSD, it's pretty sweet deck thinning, plus getting your scizors back, you do increase your chance of starting with something you don't like though...
 
ryanvergel said:
I dislike quick ball for a few reasons:

It has a small chance of actually getting the card I need. Poke Ball always has a 50% chance to get ANY card. Quick Ball will always get a card, yes, but what are the chances it is the card I want?

Using it with only 1 pokemon in play, none in hand, will give me a 4/15 of getting a scizor, 3/15 to get a scyther, 3/15 to get a cherrim or cherub, etc. So I have a little better than 25% of getting a Scizor when I want it, and like 20% or less for any other pokemon.

If I ever have a Scizor prized, it's off the bat 3/15 , or really at best 3/12 early on. At best 25% chance, and I will have a Scizor prized at least 35% of my games since I run 4. That means that over a third of my matches I only have at best a 25% chance to rip Scizor off with QB.

I'd rather have the 50% for any pokemon than to get ANY pokemon, with only 15-30% of getting the actual pokemon I desire. The odds of desired success really don't warrant the playing of this card over Poke Ball IMO.

Poke Ball is easier to burn than Quick Ball. At least you can always thin your hand and deck with poke ball if you plan to use a draw supporter.

I dislike revealing the contents of my deck. My decks are good, take a lot of time, and don't get revealed on the table to just anyone. I could quick ball and give away the number of supporters I play, if I play switch, warp point, stadiums, what kind of supporters I play, if I use great ball or poke blower or poke drawer or warp point, basically they know the ins and outs of my deck, and I guarantee that any good player will exploit all the free knowledge you give him through a quick ball.

You think I'm not counting cards when I see a quick ball being used!?
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I find this analysis to be complely off. While yes, pokeball has better odds of getting the pokemon you may need t1-2, after that quick ball is always better. Once you play that first roseanne's, your odds of getting an evolution to compliment those basics goes way up. Mid-late game, pokeball still is at 50% while quick ball can hit any pokemon and be of use (and gets greater odds after NM back 3 of something or 2-1). Also, this deck is 100% swarm, and any pokemon will always be better then doing nothing. I've only had about 3 times (out of at least 40) where quick ball has hit something I could not play (usually a cherrim). Of course, if you have another quick ball, roseanne's, bebe's, luxury ball, great ball, or marleys, you can take advantage of this hit no matter what. I'll take the free pokemon over possible any pokemon but possible nothing.

I'm confused by the whole "pokeball burns better then quick ball" comment. By draw card, I assume you mean shuffling card. If so, then your going to either grab a basic with the pokeball, whiff, or grab an evo and play it. With quick ball, you can either get a basic and drop it, get an evo and play it, or get an evo and can't play it. So yes, theres some minor burning. However, its a pretty minor point and quick ball at least guarntees thinning while pokeball can only offer hand thining. If you mean straight draw, then no question that quick ball>>>pokeball (lower deck count and better odds of hitting something you want/need).

Honestly, what could you possibly reveal? The number of bebe's in your deck? Luxury balls? Pokeblowers? I don't think theres that many trainers where a player will go "Oh I better note that". Warp point maybe. But seriously....X_X who actually does that? Thats taking pokemon and going too far.
 
The only issue I see here is what Scyther you are using. Scyther MD looks a lot more promising to me, considering it actually dishes just a little bit of damage T1. If you are really expecting to get out T2 Scizor, then you dont expect to put Swords Dance to much use.
 
yoyofsho16 said:
The only issue I see here is what Scyther you are using. Scyther MD looks a lot more promising to me, considering it actually dishes just a little bit of damage T1. If you are really expecting to get out T2 Scizor, then you dont expect to put Swords Dance to much use.
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That Scyther from MD has a retreat cost though whereas the SF one doesn't. Also, even though getting turn 2 Scizor is the goal here, sometimes it won't happen and when it doesn't, a turn 2 Slashing Strike for 60 isn't a terrible alternative.
 
Brady1 said:
I find this analysis to be complely off. While yes, pokeball has better odds of getting the pokemon you may need t1-2, after that quick ball is always better. Once you play that first roseanne's, your odds of getting an evolution to compliment those basics goes way up. Mid-late game, pokeball still is at 50% while quick ball can hit any pokemon and be of use (and gets greater odds after NM back 3 of something or 2-1). Also, this deck is 100% swarm, and any pokemon will always be better then doing nothing. I've only had about 3 times (out of at least 40) where quick ball has hit something I could not play (usually a cherrim). Of course, if you have another quick ball, roseanne's, bebe's, luxury ball, great ball, or marleys, you can take advantage of this hit no matter what. I'll take the free pokemon over possible any pokemon but possible nothing.

I'm confused by the whole "pokeball burns better then quick ball" comment. By draw card, I assume you mean shuffling card. If so, then your going to either grab a basic with the pokeball, whiff, or grab an evo and play it. With quick ball, you can either get a basic and drop it, get an evo and play it, or get an evo and can't play it. So yes, theres some minor burning. However, its a pretty minor point and quick ball at least guarntees thinning while pokeball can only offer hand thining. If you mean straight draw, then no question that quick ball>>>pokeball (lower deck count and better odds of hitting something you want/need).

Honestly, what could you possibly reveal? The number of bebe's in your deck? Luxury balls? Pokeblowers? I don't think theres that many trainers where a player will go "Oh I better note that". Warp point maybe. But seriously....X_X who actually does that? Thats taking pokemon and going too far.
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lol
Keep playing your quick ball. I'll take all the information you reveal to me.

Also, even after you use a roseanne's, getting a scizor is still at best 4/12, or 1/3. You have to clean your deck down to nearly half/half to get the desired pokemon out.


Because you can get any card of your choosing, it is easier to play the pokemon down, where with quick ball you can get any pokemon and may be unable to play down.

I'll try to reply more tomorrow
 
yoyofsho16 said:
The only issue I see here is what Scyther you are using. Scyther MD looks a lot more promising to me, considering it actually dishes just a little bit of damage T1. If you are really expecting to get out T2 Scizor, then you dont expect to put Swords Dance to much use.
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I say MD for the 70 HP. Don't let Kingdra donk you T1.
 
I played my list a few games and it was seriously fast.
Ryan, try it mate!
Quick Ball nearly ALWAYS got me the Scizor/Cherrim because I run Roseanne's and Great ball. That leaves room for the evolves Scizor/Cherrim, and I also run Pokeball to. I really am loving my build right now, I tried your list, and mine list, and mine worked a bit faster and had the same late game contributions. Maybe it's all about certain playstyle.
 
ryanvergel said:
lol
Keep playing your quick ball. I'll take all the information you reveal to me.

Also, even after you use a roseanne's, getting a scizor is still at best 4/12, or 1/3. You have to clean your deck down to nearly half/half to get the desired pokemon out.


Because you can get any card of your choosing, it is easier to play the pokemon down, where with quick ball you can get any pokemon and may be unable to play down.

I'll try to reply more tomorrow
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Go right ahead. Not like it will do you any good if I t2-4 the deck your playing. :rolleyes:

Who says anything about getting a scizor? What about cherrim? What about either one? If a scyther/cheribi (sp?) is prized, quick balls odds only go up even more (something you failed to mention). You're trying to play the deck strictly t2, which is obviously good. But, in order for this deck to win, it needs to swarm. YOU NEED TO GET YOUR POKEMON OUT ASAP. idc if you see that I run plus power, blower, whatever. I care when you go "oh crap, he hit the scizor or cherrim he needed".

Only in rare situations. And even then, I simply shuffle it away (as its a dead draw, like running 4 luxury balls is). Its no big deal because I know I can easily draw into another quick ball and get odds of hitting a pokemon I can play (and in all honest, the dead pokemon thing only happens mid-late game, by which time you should have 2+ of both lines in play anyways).

So if the only real negatives for quick ball in a swarm deck is that it reveals cards and you might not be able to play the card you get down before playing a hand-shuffling card....I'll easily take that over the 50% pokeball any day.
 
my 2 cents worth..

Pokeball if you run a engine the shuffles more than not: BeBe, Rowans, Cynthias. This engine plays pokeball any time. This type is more precise and uses thinning of deck odds.

Quickball if you run a cycle thru engine: POV, Pokedex, Felicity. This engine usuallys plays quickball last. This type the less you shuffle the more your odds increase you get what you need at that point and time.

Well at least thats how I see the 2 play styles of Pokeball and Quickball.

Im a Quickball/Cycle player.
 
quickball is CLEARLY the play over poke ball. seriously, POKE BALL? oh no, they might figure out i'm running cherrims and bebe's and warp points in my SCIZOR DECK. who cares. it won't change their strategy knowing you play cards everyone else does.
 
Quick Ball is only good if you run a traditional T2 4-4 of only one line of pokemon. Since this deck runs Cherrim too, the odds greatly decrease of getting what you need. Whenever I played quick ball, I only got what I needed about 10% of the time. This is why Poke Ball is so much better. 10% < 50% ;/

Personally, I'd rather play 4 Poke Drawer+ instead of 4 quick balls.
 
Mob2099 said:
my 2 cents worth..

Pokeball if you run a engine the shuffles more than not: BeBe, Rowans, Cynthias. This engine plays pokeball any time. This type is more precise and uses thinning of deck odds.

Quickball if you run a cycle thru engine: POV, Pokedex, Felicity. This engine usuallys plays quickball last. This type the less you shuffle the more your odds increase you get what you need at that point and time.
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This makes absolutely no sense. The odds of Quickball results does not change by shuffling your deck (at least if you do so correctly).
 
Well yeah, but I think in the combined two turns you would at least have a shot at doing more than 60, plus it has 10 more HP.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

vanderbilt_grad said:
I say MD for the 70 HP. Don't let Kingdra donk you T1.
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While I do support Scyther MD, I am certain that the whole "KINGDRA GETS T1 EVERY GAME!!!" is an incredibly rare myth that doesn't ever happen in real life. And if it did, I am sure you would lose without the T1 Kingdra donk.
 
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mozartrules said:
This makes absolutely no sense. The odds of Quickball results does not change by shuffling your deck (at least if you do so correctly).
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I disagree. It does, and especially if you're playing Claydol.

If you have a full Bench and want evolution cards for your benched Basics, drawing into more Basic Pokémon with Claydol is annoying. You will put these Basic Pokémon on the bottom of your deck and draw into more cards with Claydol. After having done this for a couple of turns, if you then were to choose whether you should use Felicity's Drawing or Cynthia, Cynthia would obviously ruin your Quickball results because it shuffles. If a lot of your Basic Pokémon are at the bottom of your deck, of course you wouldn't want to shake up that order if you think you'll be playing a Quick Ball soon.
 
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I'm going to test it right now. I added in another 1/1 cherrim, and dropped chatot to make the quick balls more effective.

I'll do the odds up afterward.
 
yoyofsho16 said:
While I do support Scyther MD, I am certain that the whole "KINGDRA GETS T1 EVERY GAME!!!" is an incredibly rare myth that doesn't ever happen in real life. And if it did, I am sure you would lose without the T1 Kingdra donk.
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Kingdra doesn't have to get T1 every game ... it just has to get it that one game against YOU. I was T1 donked by Kingdra at my first BR this year. Once burned twice shy. :wink:

The thing is that you nearly always have a shot of doing something, especially with a deck this fast. If you evolve they CANT T2 you for instance. I would rather take low odds of winning against NO odds of winning vs the T1 Kingdra.
 
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