how does the couple across the street's marriage directly affect *you* enough to be able to say they don't deserve the same rights any other couple have?
'mom
'mom
Marriage?
- Thread starter TOYBOX
- Start date
toxictaipan
New Member
I don't understand the problem. I really don't. I fail to see why people don't want homosexuals married. What do you gain if they aren't married, and what do you lose if they are?
Please, enlighten me.
Please, enlighten me.
Dr. Mason
New Member
Mom pretty much said it. Whether or not they are married has no direct effect on you. It's not your place to complain. I'm not saying you can't feel that way. Just that no one's opinion has the right to revoke anyone else's freedoms.
This is why things like theft and murder can all be held as wrong even with no morals in existence. They both take away certain freedoms from other people with their opinion that theft and murder is okay.
*** marriage only adds freedoms--it takes away none and affects no one that does not wish to be in a homosexual marriage.
If you can say 'I think *** marriage is wrong, and should be illegal', I can say 'I hate the color orange, it should be banned'.
ThunderBlast
New Member
If you recall, I've stated that I think civil unions are the solution. Heterosexuals can be married and homosexuals can be unified, both having the same rights under the law. That way we progress and hold tradition intact. Is that unreasonable?
Would that argument be viable at Christmas when the ACLU goes around suing communities and businesses for having banners stating "Merry Christmas" because someone wasn't Christian and became offended? It doesn't directly effect them, but this scenario happens every Christmas. It's not their place to complain about it.
Would that argument be viable at Christmas when the ACLU goes around suing communities and businesses for having banners stating "Merry Christmas" because someone wasn't Christian and became offended? It doesn't directly effect them, but this scenario happens every Christmas. It's not their place to complain about it.
like i said upthread: how about everyone has civil unions in the eyes of the state, reserving 'marriage' for whatever religious ceremony/rite one chooses to participate in to sanctify said union?
after all, if civil unions are 'just the same as'...what could possibly be the objection?
'mom
after all, if civil unions are 'just the same as'...what could possibly be the objection?
'mom
Dr. Mason
New Member
see
Also that ACLU stuff--it's unrelated and petty. I do think it's silly to be mad that your work said Merry Christmas when you mdon't celebrate it.
Ardoptres
New Member
So basically you had no point, when saying ***s are sinners and therefore you should be allowed to get married.
toxictaipan
New Member
Ronald Reagan said:
I've noticed that everybody that is against homosexual marriage is heterosexual......
Ardoptres
New Member
They just don't. People that think it is wrong, have no valid reasons for their opinion, but it's just their opinion.
Articjedi
Active Member
None of us really do, there's a big difference between hatred and indifference.
I have read some arguments that allowing *** marriage also will invite other, morally corrupt practices such as bestiality. I'll just leave that alone and laugh at it.
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ApachePrime
New Member
A common reason is religion. This makes no sense to me, as it is said in the bible "Judge not, lest ye be judged." No man has the right to judge another man's sins, only God may do that. I'm not Christian, but my family is, and I have a lot of respect for the general message: Love thy fellow man. I think a lot of people lose that message though and use religion as a fuel for hateful ideas like this. So, for the religion argument that's been brought up, both sides should take that into account.
Bigotry is bigotry. Period. Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean you aren't a bigot. You think it has a negative meaning, well... Maybe you should re-evaluate your opinion? Perhaps do some research and think a bit for yourself. You'll find that all of the reasons not to allow *** marriage will lead you to logical fallacies and falsehoods. Even the bible supports equal rights for all, so why try to say it gives you the right to exclude anyone?
I strongly agree with Pokemom on this one. Marriage is a religious term. So why not just make it a religious thing? The government should issue "Civil Union Certificates" not "Marriage Licenses" and that solves the whole problem. Marriage is handled by your "church" or whatever belief system you have, and the government gives everyone the same basic rights. No one gets discriminated against, and no one is excluded.
This is a sensitive subject and in my opinion for those that are truly religious 'straight' or not a Civil-union wouldn't suffice. Marriage these days and how the 'ceremony' is conducted or spent means very little to many as long as it is completed with efficiency. Though for those that wish for a Marriage under religious/spiritual guidance answers will eventually have to be presented by the religious orders that deny to acknowledge them and hopefully overtime will see to it to 'reinterpret' their views, which has been done countless times in all major religious orders around the world to better reflect and uphold the society of the time.
toxictaipan
New Member
This is true. I have found in personal experience that Christians can be the BIGGEST hypocrites of all.
Exactly. But this just makes too much common sense to be put into practice.
ThunderBlast
New Member
It's only unrelated if you don't understand the analogy. I used Christmas to show your logic from a different, but similar perspective. Let me break it down:
Does it effect me if my *** neighbors are married? NO.
Does it effect my non-christian friends if the community celebrates Christmas? NO.
Can I complain about what my *** neighbors do, even if it doesn't effect me? According to your statement, NO.
Can my non-christian friends complain about the community celebrating Christmas? Based on the logic of your statement, NO.
If we take this further, it turns into no one being able to complain about what another does if their actions do not effect them directly. So, what about polygamist? It won't effect any of us if three people want to be wed.
I worry that we could go down a path that makes just about anything OK, a "if it feels good, do it" mentality. People don't put enough emphasis on the traditions that have worked to keep humanity stable. I believe marriage is one of these traditions. None of us know the effects *** marriage could have on the whole. There could be no change at all.
Prove how your opinion is anymore valid.
The_Lurb
New Member
I would get banned 20x over if I said some of the things I wanted to.
Religion is the main reason people are against homosexuals being married. What gives you people that follow "god" the right to deny homosexuals what they deserve just as much as heterosexuals? Oh and did you know that the suicide rate for teens is going up and the largest percentage of them are homosexuals? So people that pick on homosexuals relentlessly are essentially killing. My parents are lesbians and they can't married and have legal rights because of people like Tyrant. Both of my parents have told me about various insurance companies denying them much better rates mearly because they weren't married. And to people saying there is no right or wrong here, that's not true. That is similar to saying that people of different races can't be married, and should be picked on. But that's majorly accepted as a very bad way to think so why is saying homosexuals can't get married ok? People that think homosexuality is a choice are pretty silly. Put yourself in their place, what would you do if you were ridiculed and denied legal rights you're entire life because of your sexual orientation?
Religion is the main reason people are against homosexuals being married. What gives you people that follow "god" the right to deny homosexuals what they deserve just as much as heterosexuals? Oh and did you know that the suicide rate for teens is going up and the largest percentage of them are homosexuals? So people that pick on homosexuals relentlessly are essentially killing. My parents are lesbians and they can't married and have legal rights because of people like Tyrant. Both of my parents have told me about various insurance companies denying them much better rates mearly because they weren't married. And to people saying there is no right or wrong here, that's not true. That is similar to saying that people of different races can't be married, and should be picked on. But that's majorly accepted as a very bad way to think so why is saying homosexuals can't get married ok? People that think homosexuality is a choice are pretty silly. Put yourself in their place, what would you do if you were ridiculed and denied legal rights you're entire life because of your sexual orientation?
Ardoptres
New Member
No, of course you shouldn't complain about something that doesn't affect you or hurt others. Why would you? Though, I must admit it's typically American to do so.
Also, I never talked about opinions being valid, I talked about reasons for opinions being valid.
toxictaipan
New Member
I promise you, the world will not explode if America allows homosexual marriage. You won't lose your job, your best friend won't die, you won't get the swine flu. Nothing that bad could happen.
God forbid we allow the homosexuals to get married, I just don't know what might happen.
Dr. Mason
New Member
Sure. If more than one person wants to be wed, have at it.
You seem to be misunderstanding me. I just agreed that non religious people complaining about a community celebrating Christmas is silly. I AGREE WITH YOU THERE. In your hurry to place me into some sort of archetype, to categorize me, you IGNORED my post.
If people want to stone themselves until they die, get married to the same sex, and ride rollercoasters, let them do it. At least if they're 18. And there's a reason for that law--by that age the majority can begin to make mature decisions.
People will learn on their own what is good and bad for them. Stoners who give a crap will STOP smoking. The ones whjo don't would have just destroyed their lives another way.
Articjedi
Active Member
Polygamy does affect other people. It basically enables rich, powerful people to have as many wives as they want, while the poor guy gets one, since he can only afford one. Since humans are on a 1/1 sex ratio, a minority of males taking up a huge number of wives makes it impossible for several males getting a wife of their own, and are unable to marry at all. You create a minority of people who are disgruntled because they are deprived of the basic need to reproduce, which raises crime rates and just makes society worse off. You really should have taken the bestiality angle =\
So explain how traditional marriage protects human society. I honestly don't see where the difference is as long as ***s gain acceptance and equality under the law and in the hearts and minds of other people. Since it usually takes a legal precedent to force it, well......
if 'protecting marriage' is really the point of it all (and not 'protecting marriage [del]from teh gheyz!!!1![/del]'), then why aren't the people screaming the most about it working to outlaw DIVORCE?
after all, every 'problem' with marriage these days can be laid directly at the feet of the heterosexual marrieds, since they're the only ones allowed that privilege historically...
'mom
after all, every 'problem' with marriage these days can be laid directly at the feet of the heterosexual marrieds, since they're the only ones allowed that privilege historically...
'mom