NoPoke
Active Member
Amen to that. I 100% agree
Sentiments after Nationals
- Thread starter ryanvergel
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Amen to that. I 100% agree
DarthPika
New Member
I don't think you quite understand exactly how HARD it is over here. So what if we have Regionals? What the heck does that have to do with worlds? Yes, we get more invites for our nationals. I'm going to take a guess here and say you've never seen what our nats is like. It's stupid impossible to make top 16 with out a considerable amount of luck just because of the size of the event. We are given more invites than other countries? How about pair that up with our player base and then look at that ratio against other countries invites/player ratio. You'll find going by that we get next to nothing. And the grinder. I would like to point out that the grinder is actually easier than our nats. But even that's getting a little silly, saying that you should secure an invite by grinder, which is like US nats, very luck based. And yes, with a larger player base we have more good players.
Also, NO it's not fair that HongKong only gets 1 invite. I think all counties that aren't getting enough invites to support growth in the player population should get more.
ryanvergel
New Member
We are given more invites, but it is a FACT that the United States has the WORST player to invite ratio existing for any country with OP, while also having the BIGGEST player base for any country, by thousands. It is the hardest country, by a HUGE margin, to obtain an invite at.
If you READ the thread, XYZ_Sniper, I actually post how many masters players APAC has for their 4 invites -194 people. That is about 2% of their player base receivint an invite. One invite for every 48.5 people.
NA Zone has 6500+ people, and receives 25 invites, roughly 1 invite for every 260 people. About 0.3% of our population is represented, compared to APAC's 2%. That means it's easily 260/48.5=5.36x easier to earn a rating invite there.
At least on a statistical level. But just imagine what kind of FIERCE competition that creates in an environement with such HUGE numbers. There are states like my own, Florida, completely isolated, which only really draws from its own residents. This state is essentially like its own country. We drew over a hundred masters for both states and regionals. We have seen growth every single year. Winning a regionals in Florida, which could have over 128 people next year should warrant an invite to me. This event would be harder than most other nation's Nationals.
*all of this excludes Japan, as they are a complete and utter mystery
I am just at a complete loss for words. I wasn't even prepared for an argument against giving a few more invites to the US, who is drastically underrespented. As if increasing the world's invitees by 10% (adding 13 invites for regs winners?) would really change anything. It would make things a bit more fair for the US players, who have SUCH a hard time getting to worlds. It's just so improbable.
The invites trickle down to the grinder. Do you realize how hard the grinder is? The grinder has like, 10 times the number of participants as many international nationals. Go into a 400 person tournament and try to go X-0 or X-1 in today's environment. Or last year's. ANY year's.
I know we are given more than anyone else. But we also have, sometimes HUNDREDS the times of players other countries have, but only receive 4x as many invites as them. You think adding players will hurt the prestige of worlds? No, I think having a country grossly underrepresented and other countries comparitively super represented is detrimental to its image. I think an event with the best players in the world is what world championships should be. I think that too many worlds-caliber players are being denied in the US simply because they are in the US and their invites are expendable (after all, they will keep playing). I am asking for a more level playing field.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Are the guys who head Pokemon afraid of explosive expansion of players? If they did what they did back in the 2005ish era, and just boost invites, create a whole string of tournaments, the numbers would be through the ROOF again. They've cut invites from like 50 (which actually represented us fairly, GO FIGURE) to 8-35ishmax usually. Usually 25 or so. But our numbers have abolsutely exploded. I think in the next year or two, we will have doubled our numbers from 2004 nationals. (We could have done it in 5? did we? if we didn't, we should have tried harder to make it a goal haha). Doubling our numbers with so many in 5 years is amazing progress, and we've only seen less and less.
If you READ the thread, XYZ_Sniper, I actually post how many masters players APAC has for their 4 invites -194 people. That is about 2% of their player base receivint an invite. One invite for every 48.5 people.
NA Zone has 6500+ people, and receives 25 invites, roughly 1 invite for every 260 people. About 0.3% of our population is represented, compared to APAC's 2%. That means it's easily 260/48.5=5.36x easier to earn a rating invite there.
At least on a statistical level. But just imagine what kind of FIERCE competition that creates in an environement with such HUGE numbers. There are states like my own, Florida, completely isolated, which only really draws from its own residents. This state is essentially like its own country. We drew over a hundred masters for both states and regionals. We have seen growth every single year. Winning a regionals in Florida, which could have over 128 people next year should warrant an invite to me. This event would be harder than most other nation's Nationals.
*all of this excludes Japan, as they are a complete and utter mystery
I am just at a complete loss for words. I wasn't even prepared for an argument against giving a few more invites to the US, who is drastically underrespented. As if increasing the world's invitees by 10% (adding 13 invites for regs winners?) would really change anything. It would make things a bit more fair for the US players, who have SUCH a hard time getting to worlds. It's just so improbable.
The invites trickle down to the grinder. Do you realize how hard the grinder is? The grinder has like, 10 times the number of participants as many international nationals. Go into a 400 person tournament and try to go X-0 or X-1 in today's environment. Or last year's. ANY year's.
I know we are given more than anyone else. But we also have, sometimes HUNDREDS the times of players other countries have, but only receive 4x as many invites as them. You think adding players will hurt the prestige of worlds? No, I think having a country grossly underrepresented and other countries comparitively super represented is detrimental to its image. I think an event with the best players in the world is what world championships should be. I think that too many worlds-caliber players are being denied in the US simply because they are in the US and their invites are expendable (after all, they will keep playing). I am asking for a more level playing field.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Are the guys who head Pokemon afraid of explosive expansion of players? If they did what they did back in the 2005ish era, and just boost invites, create a whole string of tournaments, the numbers would be through the ROOF again. They've cut invites from like 50 (which actually represented us fairly, GO FIGURE) to 8-35ishmax usually. Usually 25 or so. But our numbers have abolsutely exploded. I think in the next year or two, we will have doubled our numbers from 2004 nationals. (We could have done it in 5? did we? if we didn't, we should have tried harder to make it a goal haha). Doubling our numbers with so many in 5 years is amazing progress, and we've only seen less and less.
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Ardoptres
New Member
We do, at Nationals... (?)
DarthPika
New Member
I know. By that logic, each US state should be given its own invites.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
So why the need for more Invites if those (for the average American) are not going to be used ?
Because that is what you are saying.
And for Belgium, it looks like 5% is much, but it's only 1 (ONE) player who walks away with a trip.
You have to win, win, win ALL, and not like the USA Nationals a loss in top 8 stil giving you a PAID invite. Loose in top 4 oh still a PAID invite.
Do you really think it's easier to win the "Belgium" way?
As for Slovenia, I have no idea why they got 2 invites.
But you can look at it from the bright side, both of them MIGHT end up in the Grinder, more power for those living closer to California than we do.
And don't give me that stupid talk about any person want to play THAT Nationals.
Unless you have over $2000 (and for a Sr/JR over $4000) cash left over to really attend Worlds.
Don't you really think I don't know it's easier to get an invite in Country X as in Country Y.
Sure I do and many people in Europe know.
But we understand each country should be represented at Worlds, and that's why they should give out invites. No matter how "bad" or "undeserving" that playersbase might look, it's not up to us and will never be up to us thanks heaven.
NoPoke
Active Member
@DarthPika:Could do that. Each state becomes a mini-nationals. Probably have to scrap USA nationals to fund the 50 states sending a single representative each. Each player only gets one shot at their local states and if they don't win it they get to try in the grinder. That looks much worse than the current system with nationals plus ratings - unless you happen to be the single player in Hawaii or Alaska...
Hmm invites by state looks like a very poor idea.
Code:
20 Alabama
9 Arkansas
1 Alaska
137 Arizona
0 Armed Forces-Americas
0 Armed Forces-Europe
0 Armed Forces-Pacific
605 California
152 Colorado
37 Connecticut
14 Delaware
0 District of Columbia
538 Florida
154 Georgia
1 Hawaii
44 Idaho
195 Illinois
95 Indiana
53 Iowa
55 Kansas
44 Kentucky
44 Louisiana
62 Maine
92 Maryland
141 Massachusetts
96 Michigan
83 Minnesota
70 Mississippi
197 Missouri
0 Montana
21 Nebraska
37 Nevada
54 New Hampshire
186 New Jersey
50 New Mexico
133 New York
149 North Carolina
0 North Dakota
263 Ohio
59 Oklahoma
285 Oregon
186 Pennsylvania
8 Puerto Rico
29 Rhode Island
57 South Carolina
20 South Dakota
106 Tennessee
412 Texas
86 Utah
0 Vermont
216 Virginia
259 Washington
3 West Virginia
174 Wisconsin
0 Wyoming
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ryanvergel
New Member
You still haven't answered why it would be bad to give the US a few more invites so that we are better represented.
I don't care what the other countries got- I am using them to show examples of poor distribution. I am glad that Slovenia gets 2 invites. Good for them. Good for every place that gets invites. I wish more players got to come to play.
That doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about, though. We are talking about the US having far too many invites for how many players we have, making it extremely difficult here. We are talking about the ease of making it easier for Americans at the cost of no other country, only to hear resistance at every turn.
Again, WHY IS IT BAD THAT WE COULD RECEIVE A FEW MORE INVITES?
Adding 10% of the players to worlds would make it lose its prestige? So the worlds of 2005 had less prestige than last year's worlds? It would just make the representation better. We have a lot of players, and have been growing, so why are so many of you so resistant to giving us more invites? We had them before, but they were taken away so that we could give more abroad. If we can afford to give them back to the US again, why aren't we? They don't even need to be trips, just INVITES.
I don't care what the other countries got- I am using them to show examples of poor distribution. I am glad that Slovenia gets 2 invites. Good for them. Good for every place that gets invites. I wish more players got to come to play.
That doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about, though. We are talking about the US having far too many invites for how many players we have, making it extremely difficult here. We are talking about the ease of making it easier for Americans at the cost of no other country, only to hear resistance at every turn.
Again, WHY IS IT BAD THAT WE COULD RECEIVE A FEW MORE INVITES?
Adding 10% of the players to worlds would make it lose its prestige? So the worlds of 2005 had less prestige than last year's worlds? It would just make the representation better. We have a lot of players, and have been growing, so why are so many of you so resistant to giving us more invites? We had them before, but they were taken away so that we could give more abroad. If we can afford to give them back to the US again, why aren't we? They don't even need to be trips, just INVITES.
Rainbowgym
Active Member
Be carefull what you ask for, you might get it that way and the whining will be massive.
As giving the US more invites does NOT take away invites elsewere I NEVER have seen the problem to give your T16 at Nationals an invite.
I was the ONLY one in the past saying over and over again the NA regionals should award an invite for the winner (due to them being so large as most Int Nationals).
But NEVER EVER back to the way it was in 2004 and 2005.
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DarthPika
New Member
What I meant was that each US state should get it's own invites for it's State Championships.
NoPoke
Active Member
By proportion of players to be fairWhat I meant was that each US state should get it's own invites for it's State Championships.
I finished the list above. Quite surprising just how low the player count is in the majority of USA states.
Ardoptres
New Member
I read about a lot of work being done in the US to actually make the game grow there, I read about their better scholarships, i read about their prizes being better, I read about their higher number of tournaments, I read about Worlds being in the US every year, I read about packs being 3-4x more expensive in Europe, and it makes me sick.
SLOW DECK
New Member
I believe the current POP invite structure on the whole is VERY GOOD, in terms of ratios, player base, etc. Pokemon is trying to grow the game, thus the largest base will get a relatively low % of invites, but they know that one way to grow the game is to increase the invites to other areas.
To ryan's original comment. Next year Pokemon will just have to move into a different hall. The hall next store had almost 40% more room. I think that is easily plannable.
To ryan's original comment. Next year Pokemon will just have to move into a different hall. The hall next store had almost 40% more room. I think that is easily plannable.
Ardoptres
New Member
Anyways, this is weird. Some of you US players should be complaining about having a too small amount of invites, not Europe having too many. (Ryan has the right grasp on this)
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Yes, they are trying to grow the game.
....in the US.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
Yes, they are trying to grow the game.
....in the US.
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ryanvergel
New Member
If it's in St. Louis next year. I personally don't think it should be. The city was subpar for a nationals, even ignoring the heat wave.
Columbus was great not only because of the huge boom of gamers, but there was also multiple festivals and festivities going on. St. Louis was dead besides the scorching day-time football games, and had isolated clumps of generic restaurants. A great zoo, but no amusement parks or famous museums or anything. The arch was cool, but that's mainly it for sightseeing.
New city please!
SlimeyGrimey
New Member
No one can REALLY answer for you why the US should not have more invites except POP. I too think the US could use more invites, but don't you think it's obvious to POP as well that the US gets way fewer invites per player than anywhere else in the world? Apparantly this is how they want things to be.
It is also not a useful comparison to say Country X gets 10% of its players invited to worlds while the US gets like 0.5% or whatever. I think POP is much happier with the 0.5% figure. I think the only reason any country would get 10% is BECAUSE the player base is small and they are trying to entice more people to start playing by offering such favorable odds. When more players start playing their invites won't be increased either...
Phazon Elite
New Member
Seriously, you have time to wharrgarrbl about how "unfair" POP is . . . on Fourth of July weekend? There's nothing else you'd rather do? You have no friends or family to chill with? Playing "Pokemon Activist" is honestly high on your priorities list right now?
-_-'
-_-'
ryanvergel
New Member
I post when I work. wahhhhhh
Mew
New Member
And you're assuming that the summation of X can never be greater than 128. Pears and Pineapples.
And who's to say DarthP was wrong in his assumption. POP is; and I don't recall any statements from them to the players concerning this matter.
Will we? Sometimes people forget we do have the ability to destroy this game by not playing it. The entire masters division decides to quit? Goodbye pokemon TCG.
It's like a labor union of pokemon players. Course, the game isn't in shambles atm, so this method isn't necessary, but it's good to know it's around
Master Yoda
New Member
@ryanvergel:
mind that:
Nationals are supposed to be the highlight of each contrys season. (and US nationals was a BIG highlight^^)
Worlds are supposed to be a international party and the highlight of the best players worldwide.
US have many great and big tournements. the biggest national worldwide. why can you not just behappy with that?
Worlds invites are going over the world, some countrys have more, some less.
Only because the US have the biggest national and the most players i see no reason that you are crying for more invites.
I honestly think american players have so much tournement the whole season and have THE CHANCE to get there invite via the symstem we have like every other player over the world.
mind that:
Nationals are supposed to be the highlight of each contrys season. (and US nationals was a BIG highlight^^)
Worlds are supposed to be a international party and the highlight of the best players worldwide.
US have many great and big tournements. the biggest national worldwide. why can you not just behappy with that?
Worlds invites are going over the world, some countrys have more, some less.
Only because the US have the biggest national and the most players i see no reason that you are crying for more invites.
I honestly think american players have so much tournement the whole season and have THE CHANCE to get there invite via the symstem we have like every other player over the world.
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