What's Wrong with this Format?

[Poke Trainer J]

Lol, I remember when soooo many people were begging for HGSS On format. And now so many people hate it. XD

Well people didn't think HGSS-On was going to get as bad as it is now, they didn't think that Gust of Wind was going to get reprinted and had TPCi never implemented the B/W Rule Changes with the 1st Turn and they never had nerfed Rare Candy maybe we would have WAY less people complaining. Then again the way TPCi are printing Pokemon cards nowadays are already borderline power creep.

They keep making too many Basic and Stage 1 Pokemon attack for 100+ damage for little energy cost, Stage 2's are taking too much of a backseat aside from being ran as tech's and attackers in some decks but the amount of Stage 2's being allowed to see play are limited to around a few to choose from depending on the deck strategy itself. The best Stage 2 attackers in the current format I'd say are Magnezone and Typhlosion where as others are mainly ran just for their Abilities/Powers.

Samurott and Blastoise are trash.

Because of ZPST, Magnezone, and Catcher.

 

[waynegg]

What's Wrong with this Format?

For me? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It is very reminiscent of the early days with a little of the new mechanics twisted in. I think it's brilliant. If you use a little creativity, you can create some of the most fun decks to play in years that are also very competitive. It's only meh because the largest part of the player base is meh and runs somebody else's deck they copied.

There are no less than 8 decks which you can cut and win with. Why everyone chooses to run Reshiphlosion or Donphan/Tornadus/Reshiram is beyond me. There are plenty better out there.

Stage 2's are taking too much of a backseat aside from being ran as tech's and attackers

What else would they be run for?

 

[Poke Trainer J]

What else would they be ran for? I think the problem is that there aren't enough Stage 2 attackers in the format that breaks the mold as a solid deck when the nerf on Rare Candy has hurt their usage quite a bit since last format but not bad enough to where they are unplayable. We got Magnezone, Typhlosion, and maybe a few others. Blastoise and Samurott don't cut it in this format...

 

[waynegg]

^ Which is much like the play-style of Base Set thru Gym (and most other formats since the beginning to be honest).

 

[Otaku]

Why would you NOT count the single most splashed attacking line in the game?

Because it might as well be Colorless? If a card of Type X doesn't use Type X Energy, doesn't rely on Type X support and ignores Weakness/Resistance, does it matter that said card is Type X? I mean, technically you can hit for Weakness Yanmega Prime's first attack, and do 10 more damage (and of course should you face Weakness you would). With Grass Weakness being rare in competitive builds coupled with getting nothing more than a "free" PlusPower as the net result, and Grass Resistance being absent, Yanmega just doesn't really represent it's type.

 

[Ignatious]

Because it might as well be Colorless? If a card of Type X doesn't use Type X Energy, doesn't rely on Type X support and ignores Weakness/Resistance, does it matter that said card is Type X? I mean, technically you can hit for Weakness Yanmega Prime's first attack, and do 10 more damage (and of course should you face Weakness you would). With Grass Weakness being rare in competitive builds coupled with getting nothing more than a "free" PlusPower as the net result, and Grass Resistance being absent, Yanmega just doesn't really represent it's type.

Wow. I never knew Yanmega didn't hit weakness. Hahahahaha. My apologies.

 

[Prime]

But, see, it's just the same pokemon being combined in different ways...

That's what I thought until I broke it down, too.

1. Zekrom
2. Pachrisu/Shaymin
3. Tornados
4. Reshiram
5. Typhlosion
6. Yanmega
7. Magnezone
8. Kingdra
9. Donphan
10. Emboar
11. Gothitelle
12. Reuniclus
13. Vileplume
14. Zoroark
15. Lanturn
16. Mew
17. Cinccino
18. Samurott
19. Weavile
20. Blastoise
21. Floatzel

21 Different Pokemon being used? That definitely seems better than previous seasons.

What was it during the SP days?

1. Machamp
2. Gengar
3. Gyarados
4. Uxie
5. Garchomp C
6. Luxray GL
7. Infernape GL
8. Blaziken FB
9. Crobat G
10. Toxicroak G promo
11. Toxicroak G
12. Skuntank G
13. Dialga G
14. Palkia G
15. Honchkrow
16. Raikou/Entei Legend

I'm starting to run out of ideas. 10/16 of those Pokemon were SP and could be seen in any combination and almost never outside of SP decks.

For the last few seasons, I guess we've gone from inclosed deck combos (Blastoise/Lugia/Steelix/Pidgeot) and have been combining common strategies to make multiple decks (Donphan/Cinccino, Donphan/Yanmega, Donphan/Zoroark).

It's different. Not worse or better, but different.

47 Battle Roads. 22 different winning decks. There are too few good decks that are playable? Who are you kidding? We still have 3 weeks of battle roads, and already have this great variety. It would seem to me like you've been living under a rock.

Masters Battle Roads 1st Place Decks
9 x ZPS varients (7 x ZPST, 2 x ZPS)
7 x Reshiphlosion
5 x Primetime (2 x Y/M, 2 x Y/M/K)
3 x Reshiboar
3 x Stage 1's
2 x Magneboar
2 x Zekrom
2 x Gothitelle/Reuniclus/Dragons (1 x G/R/Resh/Z, 1 x G/R/Z)
1 x Reuniclus/Vileplume/Donphan/Zekrom
1 x Donphan/Yanmega/Zoroark
1 x Donphan/Yanmega
1 x Donphan and Dragons
1 x Donphan Prime/Zoroark/Tornadus
1 x Lanturn/Yanmega/Zekrom
1 x Mew/Yanmega
1 x Mew/Cinccino
1 x Samurott/Donphan
1 x Yanmega/Weavile
1 x Yanmega/Kingdra
1 x Blastoise/Floatzel
1 x Cincinno/Yanmega/Kingdra
1 x Horsemega​

 

[TheDoctor]

Its the nature of competitive TCGs. And yanmega is easy 35, which is fairly cheap compared to YGO and magic. And competitive decks can be made without yanmega: Reshiplosion is the most consistent top tier deck, and typlosion primes are only 7 a piece.

Actually, YGO has become fairly cheap.
You can spend 100$ TOPS and have the best deck around, you can also get away with only dropping 30$-50 into it.

But anyways I agree a lot with what the OP said, this format is stale, the Rare Candy nerf made everything worse, they could have just made the ruling so that you can't play RC on your first turn.

People say SP's were bad, but at least there were plenty of counters and viable decks that can easily stop them.

 

[ZombieFrankenstein]

This is just my view, take it or leave it. I began playing last November, SP was super intimidating being it has its own engine, and was fast and nearly (gets out shield for flaming) broken. I didn't like seeing "Luxchomp wins (insert tournament here)". that format to me seemed so bland with 5 decks running the show. I like having a lot of decks that can compete. It exposes who can build better decks and play better games. Everyone running the same deck can show who's better too, but it must be boring playing 6 mirror matches a tourney. T1 rules aren't the greatest but I do love a format with variation.

 

[StormFront]

But anyways I agree a lot with what the OP said, this format is stale, the Rare Candy nerf made everything worse

People say SP's were bad, but at least there were plenty of counters and viable decks that can easily stop them.

Rare Candy was a broken card last format. Along with Expert Belt it made donks a huge factor last format. With the previous wording it meant that all stage 1/2 decks had to run it. Getting a T1 Emboar/Gothitelle/Donphan/Yanmega/Cinccino/Feraligatr would make this format unplayable.

As for SPs, last rotation all non SP decks lost Claydol meaning they could not consistently keep up with the SP engine. However the big issue came from the fact we had both Vilegar+SP, which made 90% of the cardpool worthless. Any deck that has a good matchup with SP is bound to get humilated by a Vilegar deck and vice versa.

 

[mttracy3543]

But that's only 1 deck, and I don't want to build a deck that other players in my area are already playing. That's like 2-3 TyRam decks in my area, I already have MewBox built and people keep telling me to run Yanmega Prime in it when I can only afford 2 at most since I'm on a budget. The last Fire deck I played was Charizard in MD-On and I want to be different from what my friends are playing.

Probably a very affordable deck would be beartic/vileplume beartics run about 5 dependiing on where you get them and vileplumes are in that area
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[xCiegex]

Actually, YGO has become fairly cheap.
You can spend 100$ TOPS and have the best deck around, you can also get away with only dropping 30$-50 into it.

But anyways I agree a lot with what the OP said, this format is stale, the Rare Candy nerf made everything worse, they could have just made the ruling so that you can't play RC on your first turn.

People say SP's were bad, but at least there were plenty of counters and viable decks that can easily stop them.

Yugioh isn't that cheap. The only deck you could make for 100 dollars is maybe Gladiator Beasts. Other than that you are going to spend at least 200 dollars maybe. Also the best deck in the format in yugioh has a card thats worth 135 dollars for 1. The only reason it gets cheaper is the fact that the reprint expensive cards. Also the synchro deck is quite a bit now too.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Yu-Gi-Oh! reprints expensive cards at lower rarities so that it would drop the demand on it when that's not the best way to reprint cards at all. Konami could learn a lesson or two from Wizards of the Coast with Magic: The Gathering, at least in that game specific cards have kept their rarities however it seems Wizards is breaking away from that routine and are trying to copy off of Yu-Gi-Oh! in terms of expensive rare cards with Mythics, and reprinting old Rares as Mythic Rares.

 

[Darkness Lord]

I think Japan is now in a Bw-on format which is quite understable. Let think that way:

1) Zekrom and Reshiram won't be so powerful as they are now without typhlo, shaymin n pachi.
2) Catcher, PP, MP without Junk Arm won't be so easy to play.
3) Turn 1 rules was thought for a Bw-on format.

So, are really cards the problem? NO

The problem right know is that we don't have a global distribution on time. When a set came out in japan it should came out in the rest of the world too at the same time. With that u will have healthy formats n no overpowered cards. Cards themselves are not so overpowered but with the right partners they become like GODS -.-

 

[Haunter_FanBoy]

Actually, YGO has become fairly cheap.
You can spend 100$ TOPS and have the best deck around, you can also get away with only dropping 30$-50 into it

Tour Guide from the Underworld says sup?

---------- Post added 10/03/2011 at 06:13 AM ----------

I think Japan is now in a Bw-on format which is quite understable. Let think that way:

1) Zekrom and Reshiram won't be so powerful as they are now without typhlo, shaymin n pachi.
2) Catcher, PP, MP without Junk Arm won't be so easy to play.
3) Turn 1 rules was thought for a Bw-on format.

So, are really cards the problem? NO

The problem right know is that we don't have a global distribution on time. When a set came out in japan it should came out in the rest of the world too at the same time. With that u will have healthy formats n no overpowered cards. Cards themselves are not so overpowered but with the right partners they become like GODS -.-

Maybe you should get your facts right, they play hgss-on and the rules are always bad in any format.

 

[Ring-of-Magma]

Tour Guide from the Underworld says sup?

---------- Post added 10/03/2011 at 06:13 AM ----------



Maybe you should get your facts right, they play hgss-on and the rules are always bad in any format.

Japan is in BW~ on, ever since worlds.

 

[Otaku]

Tour Guide from the Underworld says sup?

---------- Post added 10/03/2011 at 06:13 AM ----------



Maybe you should get your facts right, they play hgss-on and the rules are always bad in any format.

Can you clarify the "rules" comment? Just trying to figure out if you think the rules of Pokemon are flawed, if you just think the current first turn rules are the problem, or something that didn't occur to me.

For the record, if you think the current first turn rules are bad with any format, I'd love to hear about your testing to confirm this, as well as how various formats have fared with the other first turn rules we've had. I imagine early Unlimited a.k.a. "Base Set through latest set pre-Modified Format existing" would be broken with just about any rules set, the difference being no Trainers first turn just makes going first bad. :lol:

What would be most enlightening is if we could somehow retroactively classify all cards according to modern mechanics, so that we knew what the appropriate power level was for them. Trainers are most obvious: one assumes that if TPC had figured out the current system of power balance that Professor Oak would have been a Supporter (just as Bill has become). What if, for the sake of argument, we treat Pokemon Breeder as "old-text" Rare Candy, to better simulate "old rule sets" and their impact?

Ah well, main point is that I think people are wrong about the current rules "breaking" things. It is the rules and card interactions, as well as certain card combos that result in the less desirable aspects of this format.

I don't mind going first being a slight advantage, but it shouldn't be a serious one. I think decks build around just Basic, just Stage 1, or even just Stage 2 Pokemon (with relevant lower Stages) should be tournament viable, but so should various combinations, with perhaps the quintessential deck design using a Basic "line", Stage 1 line, and Stage 2 line in various roles (though the exact role for each Stage is determined by the exact Pokemon being used). We've never actually succeeded with this, but we've come close so I believe it can happen. It is just most difficult to fine tune that balance, and I don't know if we should count the "special" cases like Pokemon-ex or themed Basic Pokemon that get extra "goodies".

 

[Porii Sames]

This format is on par with MD-BW format that we had for so little time. I hate it so much.

J kinda already said everything that needed to be said, not a large enough card pool, decks are much harder to just make work then they were last format (last format we had enough starters and drawpower that you could at least make a legitimate deck out of almost any card, which I commonly did). Plus, the format, yeah I know there are a lot of decks, just seems repetitive. Last format the SP mirror was one of skill and finesse, one where you had many options, as did your opponent. When I play Stage 1 mirrors, it just feels boring.

But yeah, thank you to J for pointing out what I've been thinking all along, and the decision by P!P that caused me to quit this game.

 

[ogremarauder]

I think decks build around just Basic, just Stage 1, or even just Stage 2 Pokemon (with relevant lower Stages) should be tournament viable, but so should various combinations, with perhaps the quintessential deck design using a Basic "line", Stage 1 line, and Stage 2 line in various roles (though the exact role for each Stage is determined by the exact Pokemon being used). We've never actually succeeded with this, but we've come close so I believe it can happen. It is just most difficult to fine tune that balance, and I don't know if we should count the "special" cases like Pokemon-ex or themed Basic Pokemon that get extra "goodies".

Doesn't primetime fit this category?

 

[baby mario]

We've pretty much got all of those

Built around Basic (ZPST)
Built around Stage 1 (Yanmega/Donphan/Zoroark, Cinccino varients)
Built around Stage 2 (Magnezone/Emboar, Gothitelle/Reuniclus)
Stage 1 + Basic (Donphan/Dragons)
Stage 2 + Basic (Reshiboar, Reshiphlosion)
Stage 2 + Stage 1 + Basic (Reshiram/Typhlosion/Ninetales, Mew Prime/Yanmega/Vileplume)

I'm sorry for those people who are put out because this format is very different from the SP format. I enjoyed playing SP too. Fact is though, that the nature of this game changes over the years. Mostly it is people with very little experience of different formats who complain because the one they were used to has gone. People who have played through multiple formats deal with change better.