Pretend you are a TO and tell that (especially that first sentence), to a parent of a player.
And juniors and seniors can't save money for college... because.... why?
Prize support is disappointing
- Thread starter jeffrey123
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Pretend you are a TO and tell that (especially that first sentence), to a parent of a player.
And juniors and seniors can't save money for college... because.... why?
I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I don't understand where this sense of entitlement is coming from. I keep hearing about how players "deserve" more prizes and it's absurd. Not only are the people/companies involved providing a free service but they are also providing free products (shirts, playmats, etc.) to each and every participant. Some people are making it sound like the company has some sort of obligation to run tournaments, hand out prizes and so on. That is not the case.
You only deserve what you've paid for. If you pay nothing to enter the tournament then you deserve nothing come first place or last place.
We all spend money on booster packs, but I've never heard anyone complain there aren't enough cards for the price. When you buy product you are paying for the product itself, not some sort of guarantee for future tournaments and prizes.
In short, Pokemon doesn't owe us anything. We should all be grateful we have the opportunity to participate in events like these and appreciate every gift we receive just for showing up or winning more games. After all, don't we play for the sake of playing?
That said, I would totally shell out $25 or less to register for a National Championship with greater prize support.
RM
You only deserve what you've paid for. If you pay nothing to enter the tournament then you deserve nothing come first place or last place.
We all spend money on booster packs, but I've never heard anyone complain there aren't enough cards for the price. When you buy product you are paying for the product itself, not some sort of guarantee for future tournaments and prizes.
In short, Pokemon doesn't owe us anything. We should all be grateful we have the opportunity to participate in events like these and appreciate every gift we receive just for showing up or winning more games. After all, don't we play for the sake of playing?
That said, I would totally shell out $25 or less to register for a National Championship with greater prize support.
RM
Bilbo Baggins
New Member
I thought this thread was about lack of prizes for leagues, but instead its for how you place in tournaments? I think they should solve league prizes before adding to tournament prizes. (ex: league pins) Also complaining about 18 packs ($72+ dollar value) for not even winning is quite a prize itself. If you really expected to receive more for top 32, then you clearly are not in this game for the sheer enjoyment of playing.
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z-man
New Member
I promised myself not to post in this thread for a while, but, I HATE responses like this one. First, I can agree that prizes at league are... less than what they used to be. I liked the idea of PoP packs, but its understandable why they were cut. League is a nothing event. You go, have fun, and then leave. You get a few cool things for playing, but that's great. Its better than nothing...
First off, I enjoy the game. Don't get me wrong. If I was in the game for prizes, I'd move onto magic or yugioh. In my opinion, pokemon is a superior game to those games from my experience. The whole experience... not just the gameplay. That includes the people, the community, the events, and everything about the game. That being said, I don't enjoy playing casually. I feel that competition is the most enjoyable way to play the game. I have fun during high-tension games where-as there isn't much fun for me playing against a friend with nothing on the line.
First off, you're overvaluing the packs. A box is about $100... give or take. 18 packs is half a box, so its a $50 value. This isn't an entitlement thing or an expectation thing. I think most of us were very happy with ourselves when we got T128/T64/T32 in a 1000 person tournament. The T32 players, after they lost, were escourted out of the area and then they were handed 18 packs. That really downplays the achievement of being one of the T32 best players in the US nats. It makes it seem that we achieved less than we actually did. For me, I had a really fun T32 game, and then I walked out to receive half a box. I've been around the block quite a bit. At worlds, T32 will net you a promo card and a bag full of goodies. In my mind, T32 at nats is just as much of an accomplishment as T32 worlds, but T32 nats is played down... big time. T64 at nats, a great accomplishment, got absolutely nothing. How awful would it feel to go so far and be told that T64 is basically worthless. T64 getting nothing tells you that you didn't really achieve anything. It is just unfun to feel worthless despite achieving something. I can tell you that for a fact. T64 at nats gets less than 4th place at a BRs. That is fairly pathetic if you ask me.
This is mostly a "you'd have to be there" thing, but I'm fairly sure you'd feel the exact same way if you were in the situation.
NoPoke
Active Member
Just who is saying T64 at USA nationals is worthless? You seem to be the one downplaying the achievement and requiring stuff to make up for it. Maybe T64 at USA nationals isn't that big an achievement? Its 1/16 of the attendance which at 1000 masters is bound to contain a lot of average players.
Events stand on their own so any argument based upon a battle road just isn't going to be convincing. This is easy to see as no one believes that events within the same series are automatically comparable (200+ player states vs 50- player states). The "I got more at a battle road" argument just looks like a demand for more stuff and not more recognition.
On the subject of recognition the biggest blow I can think of recently was the removal of the third place podium at Worlds.
Events stand on their own so any argument based upon a battle road just isn't going to be convincing. This is easy to see as no one believes that events within the same series are automatically comparable (200+ player states vs 50- player states). The "I got more at a battle road" argument just looks like a demand for more stuff and not more recognition.
On the subject of recognition the biggest blow I can think of recently was the removal of the third place podium at Worlds.
GodBlessAmerica
New Member
Sure they can save money, but the people playing in masters are paying for college, their cards, and to travel to events. They proceed to play longer events and work harder. They need the money more than kids do. Juniors and seniors are most likely not paying to attend events, and juniors probably aren't paying for their cards either. They proceed to play shorter and less difficult events. Giving the same rewards regardless of how hard you work? That's dumb
As for telling parents stuff to get their kids into the game, I don't think it matters too much for most of them. The parents of the kids at my league just pay for them to play because they want to get the kids off their hands. My mom took me to events when I was a senior to keep me happy and socializing. The money to them is gravy. There is no other game that is going to offer them any kind of scholarship for free events, so why not drop the support for the younger divisions?
jeffrey123
New Member
Regardless of who is in the top64, everyone but the people in top 64 wish they could be there :thumb:
Victory Bell
Member
^This.
The point of OP is to promote the game, thus to promote people to buy packs. OP gives prizes. Thus people have to buy their packs to compete and get those prizes. In a way, it is entitlement, because if we weren't entitled to the prizes for winning, many of us wouldn't buy their packs. Notice how most games don't survive very well without OP. Granted, Pokemon is different because the TCG follows up a GIGANTIC video game franchise. But the most successful TCGS have all had strong OP programs that give prizes, an incentive for people to play (and buy their stuff). Of course, yeah. We get what we pay for. We don't pay to play, so it's very understandable for the prizes to be significantly less than that of Magic or YGO.
Thinking about it more, not having to pay is actually like a prize itself. If I had to pay for EVERY event I played in last year, I'd be significantly poorer, even with an increase in prizes that'd result from me doing so. So that's another reason I'd favor paying for Nationals ONLY.
Not to sound overly harsh, but I don't play Worlds and Nationals for the sake of JUST playing. I'd find it VERY hard to justify anyone flying to Hawaii or Indiana to play a huge tournament I know I'd get nothing for winning.
Bilbo Baggins
New Member
I'm not saying the prizes are disappointing at league. I was saying that some leagues haven't been receiving all the necessary items for the league seasons. Our league hasn't received league pins for I think 4 seasons due to manufacturing problems. I would much rather have all that fixed then adding more prizes for placing.
also, you can value packs between 50-78 dollars, either from half a box to retail prices.
jeffrey123
New Member
Clearly youve never been in our situation . Perhaps you judge? ^
Bilbo Baggins
New Member
I have been. For a free event, I don't mind making it that far to get 'nothing'. If they make nationals 5-10 dollars for them to give out more prizes, i'm all up for it. But just to have them give more for a free event, that's just absurd. Do you need something to prove you got top 64? I sure don't, cause I know I made it.
I see what you are trying to say juniors and seniors are not the ones who are actually paying for their cards and to attend events There is a saying in Economics, "There is no such thing as a free lunch". Basically what it means is that when someone gets something for free (anyone under 18 who by law must be cared for by parents) someone is really paying for it, in this case the parents. The parents are investing their time and money into events for their CHILDREN, why can't their be some worthwhile reward, i.e scholarship money.
Parents are paying for their children's (maybe even the the entire families) cards and they are paying for more then one person (themselves (sometimes 2 parents) and their child/children) to travel to events. Some parents, those who are financially able are saving up for college now, explain to me why playing in Pokemon events can't help the college fund this early.
Things must be different in your area because most players I know in Juniors/Seniors have parents who are involved in the game and play as well. For parents who are on the fence when deciding to attend an event or not, selling points that makes them decide to attend an event include TRIPS AND SCHOLARSHIPS. The bottom line is this, whether it is the family that plays or just the child or children that play, TIME and MONEY is being invested from somewhere for cards and to travel to events to play. Sure, in the end Juniors and Seniors have fun but why can't there be some possible tangible reward for the TIME and MONEY invested in the game.
Now I need to respond to this.
The masters division includes players as young has 15 and as old has... well there is no limit. Not everyone from age 15-death, is in college. You make the claim that masters need the scholarship money for college, How can you justify this when not all master division players are in college (or even have the intent to go to/go back to college). Under your logic it seems that you are trying to say that anyone not currently paying for college needs the scholarship money. Correct me if I am wrong,
King Piplup
Active Member
GodBlessAmerica, that's the type of selfish attitude toward the younger age groups that is in NO way good for the future of the game.
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There's the possibility to go 12-2 in games and still lose in top 64. There's no way you could say that you would be happy to go 12-2 and receive the same prizes as someone who went 0-9. Sure, you get to put "Top 64 - 2012 US Nationals" in your sig, but there's really nothing to show for your accomplishments. Even a top 64 promo you can at least put in a binder and show people.
RandomCaterpie
New Member
If they wont give out prizes for top 64 at nats then the top cuts need to be shrunk. Showing up to nats to play 9 rounds of swiss for a promo and a shirt is ok to me, but the moment the stakes are raised and it moves to single-elimination Bo3 there needs to be SOMETHING other than prestige on the line.
There needs to be some kind of prize support (packs, medals, promos) for all of the players who cut. Even just promos for top 64 that are stamped (and preferably not an already printed card) would be great. Top 32 should get the same promo, stamped for their achievement as well as packs. If OP (P!P, TPCi, whoever really runs this rodeo) can't do that then the top cut needs to be smaller.
There needs to be some kind of prize support (packs, medals, promos) for all of the players who cut. Even just promos for top 64 that are stamped (and preferably not an already printed card) would be great. Top 32 should get the same promo, stamped for their achievement as well as packs. If OP (P!P, TPCi, whoever really runs this rodeo) can't do that then the top cut needs to be smaller.
I just transferred from wow tcg to Pokemon after completing a 2nd top 8 finish. We had 303 players in our main event and here is our prize payout:
1st place:
$2500 Travel Voucher
$2500 Amazon Gift Card
17" Macbook Pro
27" Apple LED
64GB iPad 3
64GB iPod Touch
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championship
2nd place:
$2000 Travel Voucher
$1000 Amazon Gift Card
17" Macbook Pro
64GB iPad 3
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
3rd-4th place:
$1000 Travel Voucher
15" Macbook Pro
64GB iPad 3
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
5th-8th place:
$1000 Travel Voucher
64GB iPad 3
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
9th-16th place:
$750 Amazon Gift Card
32GB iPod Touch
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
17th-32nd place:
32GB iPod Touch
16 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
Invitation to the World Championships
33rd-64th place:
16GB iPod Nano
16 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Invitation to the World Championships
65th-96th place:
$100 Best Buy gift card
12 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Invitation to the World Championships
97th-150th place:
12 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Invitation to the World Championships
Now your probably asking why switch to a game that has very low EV? Simple better game and less stagnant meta. If you think your meta is stagnant try having 12 of the top 16 the same exact deck list.
1st place:
$2500 Travel Voucher
$2500 Amazon Gift Card
17" Macbook Pro
27" Apple LED
64GB iPad 3
64GB iPod Touch
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championship
2nd place:
$2000 Travel Voucher
$1000 Amazon Gift Card
17" Macbook Pro
64GB iPad 3
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
3rd-4th place:
$1000 Travel Voucher
15" Macbook Pro
64GB iPad 3
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
5th-8th place:
$1000 Travel Voucher
64GB iPad 3
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
9th-16th place:
$750 Amazon Gift Card
32GB iPod Touch
Wooly White Rhino Loot Card
X-51 Nether-Rocket Loot Card
El Pollo Grande Loot Card
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
2012 NACC Trophy
Invitation to the World Championships
17th-32nd place:
32GB iPod Touch
16 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Corrupted Hippogryph Loot Card
Invitation to the World Championships
33rd-64th place:
16GB iPod Nano
16 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Invitation to the World Championships
65th-96th place:
$100 Best Buy gift card
12 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Invitation to the World Championships
97th-150th place:
12 packs of Tomb of the Forgotten
Invitation to the World Championships
Now your probably asking why switch to a game that has very low EV? Simple better game and less stagnant meta. If you think your meta is stagnant try having 12 of the top 16 the same exact deck list.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
And I have a hunch you're making this post for selfish reasons. Everyone has selfish reasons for saying what they do.
However, when you take a step back and look at the merit of what GBA says, he's right on several points. While I disagree that the Juniors have no use for the awards (they do - or at least their parents do once they're old enough to go to college), he is right in the sense that the scholarships are a much less effective marketing tool for younger age groups. To kids, those $X,000 values just don't make as much sense as they do to teenagers and adults.
For 15+, the scholarship award is far more meaningful than it ever will be for juniors or seniors. While we as older players don't need any reason to validate our participation, a tangible prize like a $1,000 scholarship is a cue to people outside of the Pokésphere that the game is not dead, is thriving, and is ready to take on more players.
RetiredRocketZapdos6669
New Member
I don't know personally i've been out of the game for quite a while but compared to yugioh when i played it a couple of years ago i still think the prize structure for pokemon alot better than yugioh, it's a vast improvement over when i played and wizard had it. Back than all i got was a medal, a personalize top 8 jacket, couple binder, and various packs.
There are two issues I take with this statement. First of all, if buying packs entitled you to prizes then everyone deserves prizes regardless of how they rank in the tournament. Or those who buy more packs deserve more prizes. I don't believe anyone feels that way.
Second, when I say that we are not entitled to tournament play/prize support what I mean is that we don't have a right to them. They are a priviledge. Even if we collectively spend a billion dollars on the upcoming Dragons Exalted release, the company could still decide to stop running tournaments, providing league support, etc. and we would have no ground to contest that. Once we buy our packs, it's their money and they can do what they want with it. I am grateful they provide the services they already do.
Now, you are right when you say the point is to promote the game. If they did away with official tournaments, I'm sure a number of players would stop buying product. It is in their best interest to make their players happy. When it comes to free stuff, we should be happy with whatever we receive. As the saying goes, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth."
RM
Victory Bell
Member
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