Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

A response to those wanting details on decks played

Status
Not open for further replies.
Steve A: That rule just means we CAN post the info, not that we HAVE to.

Again, I said it before and I'll say it again....if a player wins by using Infercatty...and I post that John Doe won MA with Infernape....where is the crime? I'm not revealing a TECH or a trainer engine. Likewise, if they win with "pick up TRUK" and I list the winner as Jane Doe w/ Blissey...do you know if it was the "pickup TRUK" or the "moving TRUK" deck? You dont, you just know the MAIN Poke was Blissey!

NO player should be so SCARED to have one Poke mentioned from their DECK that is PUBLIC knowledge as soon as it is played in a PUBLIC FREE tourney! Shoot...many of the players will see the same group of players at the next tourney...I guarantee you you the PLAYERS remember what the other TOP players ran the last time or 2!! **steps off soapbox**

Vince: I love ya and you run great tourneys. If I ever get the chance to work on one of your staffs, I'll follow your rules. Just bc I may not agree with it doesn't mean I will disobey the Captain!

Keith
 
Ok, just to clear things up a bit since we're being made to look like villians here...

Yesterday, someone who I don't normally associate with at all IM'd me with what they are running in their version of the TRUK (just "the TRUK" which is rampardos), and asked me for advice on what they are doing wrong and what changes I think should be made. I gladly gave a few tips on what to change and on how to play the deck and led them in the general right direction without simply feeding them a list or cards.

We have given advice to alot of players not on team HB, and they have also done well at tournaments using our decks (PenguinMaster is the best example of a successful person who we've helped. Go bobby!)

Bottom line is, it is easy just to IM one of us for help if it's evident that you are putting effort into making our decks work for you. We shoot down people who come up to us with nothing and just say "Can I have the list for Moving TRUK?" or "Can I buy Ramen TRUK for $5" (well add a zero to that and it's fine =D) while we do help people who actually try to come up with parts of the list themselves.
 
Again, we're not asking for decklists to be given away in tourney reports.
The discussion keeps slipping to that direction.

People have mentioned Destiny and Hurricane.

Yes, those are also decks that, at the beginning, no one know what they were. Heck, I'm sure there are still a lot of people who don't know them just by their name.
The PokeGym is here for people to write to the entire audience, not just their in crowd.

So if a deck has a fancy name, it need to identify just one of the main Pokemon in it for it's report.
If it is a deck that has had a featured article written about it, then that doesn't have to be done because there is a resource on the gym that gives that info.

So, no one is mandating that the secrets of the TRUK engine or tech cards be given.
Just that deck reports be readable by a novice that has just come to the Gym for the first time.
That's all.
 
the idea that anyone would try to keep a deck a secret at the beginning of the season is just ridiculous. if it is actually a good deck and worth knowing about, people will eventually find out about it. its not like there is a big tournament coming up where you have to keep something from the rest of the field.

however, is it their right to keep it private? absolutely. im only saying its pointless to go through all the secret charades because people WILL find out what you are playing and WILL recreate your deck.
 
desert eagle: You help on AIM but not on the forums the actual community reads? You help a singular person when you could help many by just posting tips to a single person's comments on this forum? I find it hard to believe that you try to help people when you so purposely avoid helping multiple people with a single action. No, you shouldn't be looked at as a bad guy, but you are certainly not aspiring to be a good guy.
 
Vince -

You, silent? lol

We disagree. I am not spilling any beans by saying Freddy took 1st place with Magikarp.
THIS IS NOT A DECKLIST.

So, using my option, I think that a meaningful report should include "a card" that the deck is centered around or else it's just posting people's names for fame. Then why post?

Hopefully my posts as an event staffer encourages other event staffers to do something similar. Far too often there is no summary of an event.

As I said before, reconsider your policy with what I typed above in mind. However you have every right, as Lawman pointed out, to do what you want.

Communication and sharing without divulging is good for the community.

Peace.

No more from here.

Steve

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Lawman said:
Steve A: That rule just means we CAN post the info, not that we HAVE to.
Click to expand...

That's what I said Keith.
 
Last edited:
All I was saying was that if someone says, "I chose to play Moving TRUK.", it's the same as if they said, "I chose to play Destiny.", which is the same as saying "I chose to play Pikachu."

Just because you know the name of a deck, or the name of a Pokémon, doesn't make it any different than if you DIDN'T know the name of the deck or the Pokémon.

What if someone said, "I chose to play Honchkrow." Should they not be allowed to do that since not everyone might know what a Honchkrow is? No, of course not.

If you don't know what something is then ask, simple as that.

Now as far as the details of the report go, that's something different, but there should be no reason not to allow deck names since we always have before.
 
I second PokePop, PokeDaddy, Prime, and others. If you don't have something meaningful to say, don' say anything. I don't want your decklist, I just want to hear you say something meaningful.

The first time I saw RaiEggs (aka Secret Deck) at Nats in 2006, I asked someone if I could look at it. Respectfully, they said no. So I asked if I could play them, and they said okay. That was a good example of someone adhering to the SOFG, but at the same time, maintaining a level of secrecy.

A few years ago at the 2001 Tropical Mega Battle, the US Team made the mistake of playtesting their decks in public the night before. IMO, it cost them the tournament (they finished 3/4 instead of 1/2). So, I can understand why some people want to maintain secrecy, BEFORE an event.

Nevertheless, AFTER an event, winners should be proud of their accomplishments, so much so that they'd want to tell others how they did it. The Pokemon metagame is so fluid, I can't imagine the same deck winning every BR. If a player really thinks his/her "secret deck" is going to win every time out, they're only fooling themselves.

I like those who are confident enough to totally reveal their winning decks, knowing that by doing so, some net-decker will copy it, show up at the tournament, and expect to win. During that week's time, the original designer will have buiilt a different deck, maybe targeting his/her original deck's weakness, then win again.

BTW, does anyone remember how RaiEggs bombed at Worlds 2006 after doing so well at US Nats?

Keeping decks secret is a meaningless effort.
 
Prime said:
desert eagle: You help on AIM but not on the forums the actual community reads? You help a singular person when you could help many by just posting tips to a single person's comments on this forum? I find it hard to believe that you try to help people when you so purposely avoid helping multiple people with a single action. No, you shouldn't be looked at as a bad guy, but you are certainly not aspiring to be a good guy.
Click to expand...

I do that too though a lot of the time.

I personally just think it's polite to contact a person if you want advice rather than calling out for help on the gym and hoping someone responds. Hence, if someone PMs or IMs me, I give them much more detailed advice than I would when explaining something on a public forum. Kant helps people a lot, and him doing it in a different way is perfectly fine.


desert eagle said:
We have given advice to alot of players not on team HB, and they have also done well at tournaments using our decks (PenguinMaster is the best example of a successful person who we've helped. Go bobby!)
Click to expand...

Chad has helped*** <3
 
The idea around asking a question on the forum is that if more people see it, more people will help, and thus you will get more help than if you ask a single person.

If nobody helps but when they are contacted away from public, how does someone ever get help online? When I needed advice on a computer, I posted information on multiple forums. What kind of help would I have gotten if everyone decided not to help me but to wait until I contacted them through email or AIM for help? I would have been hopeless!
 
Prime said:
The idea around asking a question on the forum is that if more people see it, more people will help, and thus you will get more help than if you ask a single person.

If nobody helps but when they are contacted away from public, how does someone ever get help online? When I needed advice on a computer, I posted information on multiple forums. What kind of help would I have gotten if everyone decided not to help me but to wait until I contacted them through email or AIM for help? I would have been hopeless!
Click to expand...

Okay, point taken. I made a wrong assumption that everyone on pokegym knows who to go to/who everyone else here is.
 
I'd say for many of the competitive and already accomplished players, they know who they need to talk to on this forum, but this forum is a melting pot for all kinds of players and/or pokemon enthusiasts. And there are new players entering the game all the time, and I would think most would go to the pokegym during their beginning years since it's about the most well known pokemon forum in the united states, and probably would have a few questions.

Community is what I've been advocating from day one. The community weakens if everyone holds back information and doesn't help each other grow as players. And I think it's been proven very well with KingGengar posting his Mario list and getting over 5000 views that you can post information about a deck in a public forum and still do well with it at tournaments later on. I'd say Mario is one of the most played decks this season so far.

In conclusion, using code names to hide information from the public is silly.
 
I was in Richmond for a vintage magic tournament( ended up top 16 got 250 in prizes) with top prizes being Power 9 which are crazy expensive cards the highest going for over 1k now the lowest of the 9 300-400. They had this really stupid idea of giving out the decklists to the players who made top 8 of each others decks because they deemed it unfair that a player with a lot of friends could use his friends to scope out the other players decks. So this guy was playing a pretty crazy combo deck the only thing was to make room for more combos his only win condition was in his Sideboard he had cards in his main deck that let him get that card but no actual win conditions in his deck but no one knew that they just assumed he had some in his deck and sideboard so they'd hold back for the ones in the deck. Type 1 magic is all about counter spells, so a player figures why counter the card that lets them search for a card when i can let them waste the search card and then counter the card he got. Well his win condition was un-counterable so after seeing his deck list they always countered his search card and never let him get his win condition. His deck was beyond amazing it was brilliant but because the list was made public knowledge he lost and the deck essentially could never be played again.
 
Xicious said:
I was in Richmond for a vintage magic tournament( ended up top 16 got 250 in prizes) with top prizes being Power 9 which are crazy expensive cards the highest going for over 1k now the lowest of the 9 300-400. They had this really stupid idea of giving out the decklists to the players who made top 8 of each others decks because they deemed it unfair that a player with a lot of friends could use his friends to scope out the other players decks. So this guy was playing a pretty crazy combo deck the only thing was to make room for more combos his only win condition was in his Sideboard he had cards in his main deck that let him get that card but no actual win conditions in his deck but no one knew that they just assumed he had some in his deck and sideboard so they'd hold back for the ones in the deck. Type 1 magic is all about counter spells, so a player figures why counter the card that lets them search for a card when i can let them waste the search card and then counter the card he got. Well his win condition was un-counterable so after seeing his deck list they always countered his search card and never let him get his win condition. His deck was beyond amazing it was brilliant but because the list was made public knowledge he lost and the deck essentially could never be played again.
Click to expand...
Obviously, it was a big mistake to mandate that decklists be revealed during the tournament. Such a TO/HJ should be penalized by WOTC. The problem was scouting, which meant the TO/HJ weren't doing their jobs enforcing the no-scouting rules. Now, if this player you're talking about was one of those players who had his friends do the scouting for him, then I don't have any sympathy for that player if his decklist was revealed, though Id still penalize the TO/HJ.

Once again, someone here has failed to realize what the real argument against the good-PTO from MO is advocating - that no deck info whatsoever should be revealed by anyone other than the player himself. That's the extremism we're arguing about, not that everyone (or anyone for that matter) should reveal their decklists after playing at an event.
 
SteveP said:
Regarding the Learning section within the SOTG, it seems obvious to me that refusing to discuss how you won means "you're too good to want to help others to learn." You don't have to go into great detail, just enough so that others can learn a bit. Otherwise, just zip it.

Obviously, the Master should keep some secrets from the student. In Kill Bill, Bill don't know the 5-points Death Blow taught to Black Mamba by her Chinese master. :lol:

I agree with what PengiunMaster post above.
Click to expand...


yeah I agree w/ steve.
it's kind of a pain when you click on a tournament report and all it says on every game is "I just TRUK-rolled over him" or something like that.

wow and that Kill Bill analogy is pretty nerdy Steve.
though unfortunatley, I understand it perfectly
:lol:
 
Prime said:
And I think it's been proven very well with KingGengar posting his Mario list and getting over 5000 views that you can post information about a deck in a public forum and still do well with it at tournaments later on.
Click to expand...

Well, the fact so few people consider mario a deck and don't prepare for it certainly helps.
 
Vintage magic is unfortunately not supported by WOTC... So there was no one to stop scouting, other playes that made the top scout. I've seen judges tell their kids what their opponents were playing before the match because they saw it because they're the judge and that's not right. Another thing I'm noticing is a family enters the tournament and if they get paired against each other the father/mother will give the kids the win intentionally, it seems like the only reason they enter the tournament is to do that. In my mind that's not right. I don't believe that the deck lists should be posted by anyone unless you want someone to know what you're playing, even if you don't play the same deck chances are you'll use similar trainers in your next deck. . .I put a lot of time and reading into my decks and countless hours of testing and such and such and then have someone post it because i wanted to bring it to some janky little tournament to see how it does is not right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top