2007-2008 Modified Format Announced! Major Changes!

[secretsof2113]

It's sad to see that so many sets are being rotated out. But we aren't losing holon mentor, or adventurer. Mentor is a basis for setup, we all know this. Yeah, the tranny just made things faster, but think about how this will improve the game.

As a player back when wizards was in charge, there was no card that was super broken. Everyone ran their staples (prof oak, bill, energy removal) but you could always run a deck and would never have to worry about how quickly you could set up. That was what made the game fun. I had that old deck and tested it out against a new deck. The sheer speed was enough to boggle me.

The game has a lot more synergy than it used to. I struggled at the beginning of the season, but I have learned a wealth of information about the game. With the help of my player community, I slowly have gotten better. It took me a few months to get the holon engine as well.

By getting rid of the thing that hinders creativity in this game, it is going to cause more people to either get back into the game, or start playing it. I'm already working on my new deck for the season.

It may look bad now, but it won't be come rotation time.

 

[pat460]

i dont really care about this with the exception that holon tranceiver and mew ex lm are going out.

 

[yuyuman345]

i like it pop
wow this game had been the best game so far i think i ever played (since ive played like 13 card games lol)
well unfortunatly my deck is dead *sigh* but it kinda makes me excited
i understaind transceiver RAN the game
i hate to say it
but most decks that made t4 in cities nationals etc had trans
trans made things not fun
and it almost killed players that wanted to play and have fun while having a lowered budget
that be me
i did like my rougue ds deck that acually won a citiesbut im excited for this
op yoiu are doing an amazing job
keep up the good work
thank u for making the game more and more interesting

 

[Croatian_Nidoking]

Well, there goes Metanite, most of the Holon engine, and a few decks I was working on....looks like Flygon decks are gonna be safe, though.

Let's sit and think about what decks will be viable next year, OK? We'd still have:

Flygon d variants
Raieggs
Infernape/Blaziken
Shiftry ex variants
Feraligatr d variants (Gatrqueen, GatrEggs)

...and not much else to speak of. That said, I hope they seriously thought over the consequences of such a massive set purge before going on with it.

- Croatian_Nidoking

 

[ninetales1234]

I think it's great that Mike and Dave are communicating with us (especially their desire to diminish the power of the Holon engine, which I agree is a good idea) and explaining things. Don't feel so down, and don't criticize them.

Thought about altering this one...but what you said Spotter was REALLY rude.

I thought it was pretty fair.

Because Pokemon Organized Greed, or whatever they prefer to call themselves, are in charge here in America, and in America, big buisness = screwing over your consumers...
...Personally, i'd laugh in the face of the guys at PUI/POP/etc. I could run their shady buisness better than they could, in a flash, doesn't take much more than a degree in marketing. :nonono: Shameful buisness is shameful buisness.

Wow, you sound so open-minded. The people at PUI want you to buy newer cards. It's just the way it works. They have to make an income to put food on the table just like everyone else.
If your relationship with POP isn't working, break it. Also, if you don't like the way voluntary markets work, go move to Cuba or Venezuela or somewhere.

 

[aade8]

Don't say something is fairly said when you can't read the other part of the argument. I deleted my posts in order to keep my sanity on this subject. Spotter's mockery of my legitimant issue WAS rude. There was no reason for it, and no call. We are talking about the same post, right? Post #101? I don't appreciate being hanged for making statements that not only aren't there anymore, but had a true basis for consideration in the first place.

 

[SD PokeMom]

*coughs politely* back on topic please...and i'd really not complain about being paraphrased incorrectly since you decided to go back and delete the posts being referred to...

'mom

 

[aade8]

If this is deleted, I swear...

My argument in my deleted posts was similar to badganondorf's. For newer players who spent a lot of money on constructing the Holon Engine in order to be competitive in premier events, this rotation hurts. Good players could be lost because they may not have the capital to bring together (buy packs, and singles) a different, competitive deck. It is a legitimant issue. My earlier posts may have been a little 'hot', but I corrected them. Debating issues with a lack of information is wrong, despite the fact that it is done everyday. Something may not be fair just because it looks that way at first sight.

 

[PokePop]

OK... back on topic now, please.

 

[Bolt]

The format change itself, I can live with...if the unlimited format (or at least RS-on) was pushed more, the values of rotated cards wouldn't drop so dramatically. I've got a Gardevoir ex from Sandstorm that I've had in my trade binder for years. One of the most powerful cards ever printed in Pokemon, stuck in my binder.

 

[EternalFire]

I have to agree with Bolt. Seeing Modified pushed as the only premier event format gets kinda boring sometimes.
I would love to play in a premier event catered to the unlimited crowd (or RS-on, FRLG-on, ect.) using this type of format. It would bring life back into older sets, create sales for those sets sitting on a store's shelves, as well as letting me use some of the cards from my pre-DX stash (soon to be pre-HP).

As for the modified rotation: I've lived through everything from base set to today, so I could care less about the holon engine moving on.

The Holon Engine bubble burst.
Live with it.

 

[[R]Visitor]

I think it's great that Mike and Dave are communicating with us (especially their desire to diminish the power of the Holon engine, which I agree is a good idea) and explaining things. Don't feel so down, and don't criticize them.

I thought it was pretty fair.


Wow, you sound so open-minded. The people at PUI want you to buy newer cards. It's just the way it works. They have to make an income to put food on the table just like everyone else.
If your relationship with POP isn't working, break it. Also, if you don't like the way voluntary markets work, go move to Cuba or Venezuela or somewhere.

There's a huge differance between running a buisness to serve food to your family and being downright greedy. Right now, they're in downright GREED mode. So greedy, they'd want me to spell it with extra letters. GREEED. Everyone knows they make more than enough money to keep their boat afloat. But more and more, they keep that money to themselves. Less prizes for the players, cards costing more money, and now cards being rotated so fast that none of them hold value for more than a month (see: Electivire).

This is greed. It's not logic. Holon engine was NOT killing the game. Poor excuse and a flat out LIE. Even if it WA$ the real rea$on, it'd be an unfair decision. Help everyone who can't beat holon engine, meanwhile cripple the people who play it. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't even know what the holon engine CONSISTS of, so I don't use it or really care so much that it's gone. Im not trying to bring it back. Whatever it is, i've never had a problem against it, and I can't be the only one.

The bottom line here is this decision is based SOLEY on greed. The red flags are all there; Raising prices of packs, phasing out old stuff too fast, announcing it at an inopertune time, etc. It's a domino effect resulting in them making more money off of us.

And if i'm wrong, i'd love to see someone prove it. It's greed. GREED GREED GREED. I can type it until i'm blue in the face, because it's true.

And if there's guys that work there coming in here and trying to put in some face time to try and sweep it all under the rug so we beleive they're trying to help us, great, they can join in too.

I'm not convinced. I've lost any faith in PUI. I'm not the only one. Change my mind if you can, but for now, PUI better hope that jacking up the prices will make up for all those players they're losing. :nonono:

 

[Bolt]

Everyone knows they make more than enough money?

I don't, I haven't seen their financial statements or tax records or anything. Chill out, you're gonna lose all your hair over a card game!

 

[Lawman]

There's a huge differance between running a buisness to serve food to your family and being downright greedy. Right now, they're in downright GREED mode. So greedy, they'd want me to spell it with extra letters. GREEED. Everyone knows they make more than enough money to keep their boat afloat. But more and more, they keep that money to themselves. Less prizes for the players, cards costing more money, and now cards being rotated so fast that none of them hold value for more than a month (see: Electivire).

This is greed. It's not logic. Holon engine was NOT killing the game. Poor excuse and a flat out LIE. Even if it WA$ the real rea$on, it'd be an unfair decision. Help everyone who can't beat holon engine, meanwhile cripple the people who play it. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't even know what the holon engine CONSISTS of, so I don't use it or really care so much that it's gone. Im not trying to bring it back. Whatever it is, i've never had a problem against it, and I can't be the only one.

The bottom line here is this decision is based SOLEY on greed. The red flags are all there; Raising prices of packs, phasing out old stuff too fast, announcing it at an inopertune time, etc. It's a domino effect resulting in them making more money off of us.

And if i'm wrong, i'd love to see someone prove it. It's greed. GREED GREED GREED. I can type it until i'm blue in the face, because it's true.

And if there's guys that work there coming in here and trying to put in some face time to try and sweep it all under the rug so we beleive they're trying to help us, great, they can join in too.

I'm not convinced. I've lost any faith in PUI. I'm not the only one. Change my mind if you can, but for now, PUI better hope that jacking up the prices will make up for all those players they're losing. :nonono:

It looks like someone MISSED Mike L's post earlier where he noted that although the price per pack went up, the cost PER CARD went DOWN! Remember folks, PUI added an uncommon card to the pasts in DP to make it 10 cards. Uncommons are where the trainers are normally. Therefore, PUI has made it a bit easier to get the uncommons now.

Keith

 

[eriknance]

There's a huge differance between running a buisness to serve food to your family and being downright greedy. Right now, they're in downright GREED mode. So greedy, they'd want me to spell it with extra letters. GREEED. Everyone knows they make more than enough money to keep their boat afloat. But more and more, they keep that money to themselves. Less prizes for the players, cards costing more money, and now cards being rotated so fast that none of them hold value for more than a month (see: Electivire).

I do have to admit that the small amount of prizes at Battle Roads had me wondering, but that's probably due to their being way more tournaments this year than last. And the price of the cards does have to go up some time. I remember when I got back into the game, I was extremely surprised that the price per pack didn't change much since when I played in 1999. And you're not talking about cards being rotated so fast that they don't hold value for a month, you're talking about a deck rotating so fast it doesn't hold value for a month. That's completely different. Electivire will stay in for a long time, but DS Dragonite is going out and has been in our format since... oh, I can't even remember when.

This is greed. It's not logic. Holon engine was NOT killing the game. Poor excuse and a flat out LIE. Even if it WA$ the real rea$on, it'd be an unfair decision. Help everyone who can't beat holon engine, meanwhile cripple the people who play it. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't even know what the holon engine CONSISTS of, so I don't use it or really care so much that it's gone. Im not trying to bring it back. Whatever it is, i've never had a problem against it, and I can't be the only one.

Not to be rude here, but how many tournaments have you won without the Holon Engine? The sad fact is, almost every winning deck runs the Holon Engine, and the only one that doesn't is a counter to the Holon Engine (Mewtric). Don't know what it is, then just look at the Archetype section. It's no secret how good the Holon Engine is when nearly every deck in the Archetype section has it. Furthermore, you're saying that this rotation cripples the people who play it. What about the people who can't even get the cards?! Sure, they may be like you and swim against the tide, but it sure won't help them win a game (not that winning is all that matters, but it doesn't help when they can't win because your opponent has better cards than them). It's been made clear that this rotation happens to coincide with getting rid of the Engine, and that's all. It's very logical.

The bottom line here is this decision is based SOLEY on greed. The red flags are all there; Raising prices of packs, phasing out old stuff too fast, announcing it at an inopertune time, etc. It's a domino effect resulting in them making more money off of us.

And if i'm wrong, i'd love to see someone prove it. It's greed. GREED GREED GREED. I can type it until i'm blue in the face, because it's true.

And if there's guys that work there coming in here and trying to put in some face time to try and sweep it all under the rug so we beleive they're trying to help us, great, they can join in too.

I'm not convinced. I've lost any faith in PUI. I'm not the only one. Change my mind if you can, but for now, PUI better hope that jacking up the prices will make up for all those players they're losing. :nonono:

It's a rotation. We go through this every year. The time is not inopportune, and raising the prices of cards is going to happen (the game's been out for years and years). The problem I have with your post is that I can't even see your point of view. What do you expect? For there to be no rotation when it happens every year? For the price of packs to stay the same as they did when the game was released? We paid more at this last Prerelease, but the gift we got was the best one yet and well worth it. POP made it very accessible for people to have card sleeves, and I was extremely happy when I got to judge a tournament in which nearly everyone had their own card sleeves. Your post reflects nothing more than stubbornness, especially since Pete De Shaw himself got on here to reply to your previous post. If you have an objection to be made, please provide an argument that makes sense (like Vanderilt Grad has), but at this point I feel like you're arguing to live up to your signature.

 

[PokePop]

The bottom line here is this decision is based SOLEY on greed. The red flags are all there; Raising prices of packs, phasing out old stuff too fast, announcing it at an inopertune time, etc. It's a domino effect resulting in them making more money off of us.

...

I'm not convinced. I've lost any faith in PUI. I'm not the only one. Change my mind if you can, but for now, PUI better hope that jacking up the prices will make up for all those players they're losing. :nonono:

I doubt anyone can convince you because you keep stating things that have been adressed without so much as acknowleging it. However, I'll give it a shot.

1, Based on Greed: Well, yes. Kind of. Depends on your definition of greed. PUI is not a non-profit organization. They need to make money to survive. And for a corporation, that does not mean "breaking even". A company that breaks even is closing it's doors. It has to make money. To pay off investors and give them a better return on their money than they could get by investing in something else. POP has come on here and flat out acknowleded that the purpose of OP is to help drive the bottom line. If POP supported play using cards published 3 to 8 years ago, then there is no reason for PUI to fund their budget. Period. That's capitalistic reality. So, there must be a drive in OP to focus on the most recent sets. On the other hand, no one is forcing anyone to participate in POP. If the way this is structured doesn't work for you, you don't have to go along. I don't mean that to sound like "love it or leave it", but it is the fact of the program. League, by the way, still allows older cards to be played, so there is that available from POP for the use of older cards.

2. Raising pack prices: Everything goes up eventually. Paper prices rise. Energy costs have shot up. At least they gave us an extra uncommon to go with it. That's no small thing. Most players have noticed that uncommons had literally become as rare as Rares with the 9 card packs! This helps address that.

3. Phasing out old stuff too fast: They release 4 sets a year. They phase out, on average, 4 sets a year. This is math. This is a fact. this cannot be disputed. Period.

4. Annoucing at a bad time: This is a serious question for you. Here it is: "What time would be better?" It's easy to complain about anything, but what time would be better? Would it be better if they announced it at or after Worlds, right before it's going to take effect? After Nationals, but before Worlds? Or, the only other choice, really, a whole year in advance? But POP has said that they have to get buy in from all different parts of the organization, based on things that are happening through the year, so anything earlier than now isn't really feasible from an organizational point of view. So, the real choices are now or later. Which is better? Now, three months before it happens, or later, with less lead time?
If you really want a whole year's advance warning, I'll give you my best guess for next year: I say that 2008-2009 Modified will be Diamond & Pearl On. There you go. Plenty of notice for the next time around. (Of course, I could be off by a set or two, but I doubt it)

What it comes down to really is this: Are you OK with the concept that the purpose of POP is to promote the sales of the Pokemon TCG? Bear in mind that resale of old merchandise is totally off their corporate radar and that is has to be the last 2 or 3 sets or it doesn't count. If you accept that, everything else follows. If you don't accept that, then you have a fundamental disagreement with the program and there is no chance of a meeting of the minds.

 

[PokemasterDG]

No more Eevee.

==============

trainers we can use....
Battle Frontier
Bill's Maintenance
Buffer Piece
Castaway
Celio's Network
Cessation Crystal
Claw Fossil
Copycat
Crystal Beach
Crystal Shard
Double Full Heal
Drake's Stadium
Dual Ball
Energy Recycle System
Energy Removal 2
Energy Restore
Energy Search
Energy Switch
Glacia's Stadium
Great Ball
Holon Adventurer
Holon Circle
Holon Fossil
Holon Lake
Holon Legacy
Holon Mentor
Island Hermit
Master Ball
Memory Berry
Mr. Stone's Project
Mysterious Fossil
Mysterious Shard
Night Pokemon Center
Old Rod
Phoebe's Stadium
PlusPower
Poke Ball
Pokedex Handy910
Pokemon Fan Club
Pokenav
Potion
Professor Birch
Professor Cozmo's Discovery
Professor Elm's Training Method
Professor Oak's Research
Professor Rowan
Rare Candy
Rival
Root Fossil
Scott
Sidney's Stadium
Steven's Advice
Strength Charm
Super Scoop Up
Switch
TV Reporter
Warp Point
Windstorm

That's 11 draw trainers remaining.

I dunno. Speed Stadium seems to be a perfectly great draw card, though luck does play a part in it.

Looks like Delcatty and its Energy Draw might be making a comeback.

 

[Jason]

Not to forget that Delcatty PK has an useful tech that can be used as it can be like the farmer tech - Delcatty ex

 

[celeni]

i personally believe that after nationals and before worlds would be best. that way everyone gets what they want. besides too early is up to two months of packs and cards not being bought that could of been. i dont know about anyone else but as soon as cards become "gonna rotate" cards they are if not worthless but can only fetch commons and maybe uncommons regardless of anything. only a few of them remain tradable.

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

To all the people complaining about the rotation, I like what the rotation does to the format and this rotation makes pretty much every card(aside from basic energy) disallowed from competitive play.
Oddly enough, there isn't much OP in the Fort Riley area.

It looks like someone MISSED Mike L's post earlier where he noted that although the price per pack went up, the cost PER CARD went DOWN! Remember folks, PUI added an uncommon card to the pasts in DP to make it 10 cards. Uncommons are where the trainers are normally. Therefore, PUI has made it a bit easier to get the uncommons now.

Keith

Back before I even enlisted, this was being brought up about once a month(the players wanted more uncommons in the packs, even at a slightly higher price).
More uncommons in the packs should make it easier to get the trainers, hopefully preventing the repeat of the $21 uncommon.

To those who Say that it's all about the money. . .
Well duh.
It balances the format, but it's still got a bit to do with money, but that's where prize support comes from(they still need to turn a profit after all of the prizes that get awarded).

Edit: Also, this much advance notice of the rotation allows you to balance the monetary gain of getting rid of certain cards now, vs keeping them for the gameplay value they will hold at pre-rotation premier events.