Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

2013-2014 Modified Format?

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I'm personally at wits end with the way things have progressed. I don't even feel like trying to come up with cool new ideas for decks cause the card pool is so shallow. I don't play other card games and have stuck out this season because of Pokemon, but with a new season approaching very soon, I have to ask myself if I want to be serious. First off, its July 5th and we have gotten no word about the next format, and in the mean-time "bad news" keeps coming (limited availabilty of promos like Landorus Plasma, non-legendary EX's, the increasing chance we won't sync for X/Y :nonono:) and with each set I see the card pool getting smaller and smaller.

My decision to continue with this game hangs in the balance of a synced X/Y release which goes hand in hand with us getting a mostly reprint set while we have to look on towards Japan as they get all new cards once again while Pokemon X/Y becomes many months old. I'm already not thrilled with starting a new season with the end of the plasma block.
 
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Warning: The following is "wall of text" response to another "wall of text". The post I responded to isn't that long, but when I actually researched "wall of text", its a pretty scant definition. My own post is the longer, but it looks absolutely gargantuan thanks to being a respond so a lengthier post.

................

This is how the game has almost ALWAYS been.

S'funny, I remember some formats where it was different. Also... an ellipsis is just three sequential periods, as I just demonstrated. 16 is definitely overkill.

Remember when Storm was the best deck? $50 for a Lugia ex, and you generally wanted to run 2.

No... I don't. :confused: When was this deck popular and are you using its most generic/common name? I went to the Researching Tower and the only Lugia ex I found was this one, a major component of Lugia ex/Blastoise ex/Steelix ex decks, known as "BLS" or "LBS" decks for short. It was one of the decks released as a World Championship deck... and alongside it was Suns and Moons, a deck built around cards that were all fairly inexpensive. If I remember correctly, you could build the deck for $40 USD.

Most of us don't have a huge problem with "expensive" decks when there's a reasonable alternative. What we have a problem with is when all decks built to competitive specifications are as expensive as they are now. Even adjusting for inflation, its hard to ignore what the need for Pokémon-EX and Pokémon Catcher have wrought.

Remember when Mew ex was completely broken and MewTrick won worlds hands down? $50 for each Mew ex. 4 required.

I remember when it was one of the best decks in the format and guess what? It was printed as a World Championship deck... alongside the previously mentioned B-L-S plus Suns and Moons. The fourth deck accompanying them Eeveelutions (not to be confused with the Skyridge theme deck of the same name).

Look at that; a format where we had decks built around Evolutions and decks built around Basic Pokémon competing against each other fairly well. I had my criticisms of the time, but what they got right they got right. For the record, the criticisms I recall I usually stand by, and they were often indicative of the problems I believe we are having now. For example, I warned people that this push for "T2" decks because of Rare Candy was a problem.

Remember when Speed Spread was the best deck and you needed a $50 Jolteon STAR, multiple Absol ex, and multiple Eeveelution ex that also weren't cheap?

I vaguely remember it... that was when my life began to get really busy and I was getting worried about card prices so I practically quit the game. I mean, the game wasn't "ruined forever!" or anything, but yeah I didn't like it and I was worried if people put up with it, we'd get a pricey format like... now.

Remember when the Holon Engine was the required driving force of every deck and you needed 4 $20 Transceivers? And 3-4 $15 Holon Mentors (until it got reprinted)?

I remember when the Holon Engine was the preferred Trainer Engine, but how if you lacked it you had adequate alternatives... like several great Supporters and normal Trainers (now known as "Items") already available. The Holon Engine was so good because it was a collection of related Trainers, so it really doesn't compare too well; you can argue being such a collection made it worse, or you can argue that it made it better, but it most definitely isn't equivalent.

Remember when DR Rayquaza ex was $50? Rayquaza STAR over $100?

The latter was a card that was naturally restricted to one per deck. I am not calling that "good"; I have stated frequently that if it was at all commercially feasible, I'd want sets to contain equally rare cards, and baring that (and something that is feasible), restrict the upper rarity to "chase cards" to entice collectors and please random little kids getting them in stores... chase cards that are not "unique" cards; reprints, pre-prints, alternate art/gimmick treatment of something in the same set.

The former was a pain, and... I didn't like it then either. Plus there were several alternative decks, at least some of which were not as pricey. The big thing is also... the game wasn't as old and had just had a major shift (WotC to Nintendo), so we cut them more slack. They don't have that excuse now, do they?

AND THE LIST GOES ON.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

edit, addendum: and ironically, most of those formats had *fewer* tournament-viable decks than the current format does.

You realize you're grossly simplifying. This has been a regular occurrence, but not with all other elements and not to the same degree. Few people like someone stealing from them, but most of us know that family member that will "borrow" something without asking, however when they "borrow" a pen is not the same as when they "borrow" a power tool and is not the same as when they "borrow" your credit card or your car!

One of the concepts people struggle to understand is proper format diversity. Having lots of decks that all play similarly is not the diversity we seek. Having decks that play differently but use largely identical lists also isn't "diversity". Is it rare to have that "ideal" format where a super majority of the card pool is used for the competitive format, and what is left is just "less competitive" and not filler, but that is still what we hope for and what Creatures, Inc. should be at least attempting to deliver.
 
I quit pokemon about 2 years ago or so to play Magic the Gathering. I see similarities, but one thing I wish pokemon would incorporate is the block rotation system they have. Basically each block has three sets and then you have what is called a core set. Sets come out every 3 months and rotation happen at the same time every year and you always know what is rotating out and when. At the very end of rotation you will have 2 blocks and 2 core sets = 8 sets. When rotation comes (october) the format rotates when the first set of the new block is released. Then the oldest block and core set will be rotated leaving you with the last block, last core set, and the newest set of the new block = 5 sets. AND IT"S THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR! If your confused about it, a pokemon example would be (Platinum = Name of Block). (Platinum, Rising Rivals, Supreme Victors = Platinum Block) (HGSS = Name of Block) (HGSS, Undaunted, Unleashed = HGSS Block) and a core set is a mix of old and new cards. It's helps shake up the format and usually has new mechanics that the other blocks don't have.
 
I quit pokemon about 2 years ago or so to play Magic the Gathering. I see similarities, but one thing I wish pokemon would incorporate is the block rotation system they have. Basically each block has three sets and then you have what is called a core set. Sets come out every 3 months and rotation happen at the same time every year and you always know what is rotating out and when. At the very end of rotation you will have 2 blocks and 2 core sets = 8 sets. When rotation comes (october) the format rotates when the first set of the new block is released. Then the oldest block and core set will be rotated leaving you with the last block, last core set, and the newest set of the new block = 5 sets. AND IT"S THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR! If your confused about it, a pokemon example would be (Platinum = Name of Block). (Platinum, Rising Rivals, Supreme Victors = Platinum Block) (HGSS = Name of Block) (HGSS, Undaunted, Unleashed = HGSS Block) and a core set is a mix of old and new cards. It's helps shake up the format and usually has new mechanics that the other blocks don't have.

This is easier when the TCG isn't a derivative of another product.
 
I quit pokemon about 2 years ago or so to play Magic the Gathering. I see similarities, but one thing I wish pokemon would incorporate is the block rotation system they have. Basically each block has three sets and then you have what is called a core set. Sets come out every 3 months and rotation happen at the same time every year and you always know what is rotating out and when. At the very end of rotation you will have 2 blocks and 2 core sets = 8 sets. When rotation comes (october) the format rotates when the first set of the new block is released. Then the oldest block and core set will be rotated leaving you with the last block, last core set, and the newest set of the new block = 5 sets. AND IT"S THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR! If your confused about it, a pokemon example would be (Platinum = Name of Block). (Platinum, Rising Rivals, Supreme Victors = Platinum Block) (HGSS = Name of Block) (HGSS, Undaunted, Unleashed = HGSS Block) and a core set is a mix of old and new cards. It's helps shake up the format and usually has new mechanics that the other blocks don't have.

I want to start off by saying I 100% agree with you.

The problem is that because the timing of the TCG depends on the timing of the video games, doing blocks is harder for them to do. Look, if I was in charge, I would synch the video game and card game releases so that blocks made sense, buttttt, they don't do that. The TCG is an afterthought really and unfortunately.
 
Warning: The following is "wall of text" response to another "wall of text". The post I responded to isn't that long, but when I actually researched "wall of text", its a pretty scant definition. My own post is the longer, but it looks absolutely gargantuan thanks to being a respond so a lengthier post.

S'funny, I remember some formats where it was different. Also... an ellipsis is just three sequential periods, as I just demonstrated. 16 is definitely overkill.[/quote]

Lots of dots for emphasis. Don't care about what constitutes a real ellipsis. This is a web forum, not a college exam.

No... I don't. :confused: When was this deck popular and are you using its most generic/common name? I went to the Researching Tower and the only Lugia ex I found was this one, a major component of Lugia ex/Blastoise ex/Steelix ex decks, known as "BLS" or "LBS" decks for short. It was one of the decks released as a World Championship deck... and alongside it was Suns and Moons, a deck built around cards that were all fairly inexpensive. If I remember correctly, you could build the deck for $40 USD.

Most of us don't have a huge problem with "expensive" decks when there's a reasonable alternative. What we have a problem with is when all decks built to competitive specifications are as expensive as they are now. Even adjusting for inflation, its hard to ignore what the need for Pokémon-EX and Pokémon Catcher have wrought.

Storm was the nickname the deck was given at the time. Akin to 'Blackout' being the originally given nickname for ZPS(T).

Also, you bring up World Championship reprints. I'll get back to this in a sec.

I remember when it was one of the best decks in the format and guess what? It was printed as a World Championship deck... alongside the previously mentioned B-L-S plus Suns and Moons. The fourth deck accompanying them Eeveelutions (not to be confused with the Skyridge theme deck of the same name).

Look at that; a format where we had decks built around Evolutions and decks built around Basic Pokémon competing against each other fairly well. I had my criticisms of the time, but what they got right they got right. For the record, the criticisms I recall I usually stand by, and they were often indicative of the problems I believe we are having now. For example, I warned people that this push for "T2" decks because of Rare Candy was a problem.

What the hell is Suns and Moons? You complain about me using the nickname Storm for LBS and then you follow it up with your own obscure deck nickname.

Speed Spread btw was an extremely basic-dominated format since the key cards of the deck were Absol ex and Jolteon STAR, and IIRC Speed Spread was well recognized as the BDIF at the time with very few viable counterplay options.

You mention World Championship prints again. Deferred again.

I remember when the Holon Engine was the preferred Trainer Engine, but how if you lacked it you had adequate alternatives... like several great Supporters and normal Trainers (now known as "Items") already available. The Holon Engine was so good because it was a collection of related Trainers, so it really doesn't compare too well; you can argue being such a collection made it worse, or you can argue that it made it better, but it most definitely isn't equivalent.

Every deck that won during those seasons were running the Holon Engine. Don't even try to say that wasn't the case. Especially once Holon's Castform came out. (remember the furor over Pidgey "Corner-locking" Castforms? only worked because of how cookie-cutter the trainer engines became during that format)

I'm not saying the engine made the format better. My point was about the price. You HAD to have the Transceivers and Mentors if you wanted to win.

The latter was a card that was naturally restricted to one per deck. I am not calling that "good"; I have stated frequently that if it was at all commercially feasible, I'd want sets to contain equally rare cards, and baring that (and something that is feasible), restrict the upper rarity to "chase cards" to entice collectors and please random little kids getting them in stores... chase cards that are not "unique" cards; reprints, pre-prints, alternate art/gimmick treatment of something in the same set.

The former was a pain, and... I didn't like it then either. Plus there were several alternative decks, at least some of which were not as pricey. The big thing is also... the game wasn't as old and had just had a major shift (WotC to Nintendo), so we cut them more slack. They don't have that excuse now, do they?

You have a very unfortunate view of where card rarities should lie. The thing is, while it WOULD be nice if the only 'chase' cards were reprints and SHINY! cards... look what happened the last time a set was entirely like that. Call of Legends was pretty universally hated. Now, granted, the set didn't really have anything else in it besides collectibles (the only competitive picks were either reprints or extremely deck-specific cards)... but it's still a perfect example: purely collectible ultra rares make for bad sales. Notice that the most expensive ultra rare every set is the most playable? Those are what drive sales.

It's either that or we watch Nintendo not make money on the game and slowly dissolve it because it's not earning them anything.

You realize you're grossly simplifying. This has been a regular occurrence, but not with all other elements and not to the same degree. Few people like someone stealing from them, but most of us know that family member that will "borrow" something without asking, however when they "borrow" a pen is not the same as when they "borrow" a power tool and is not the same as when they "borrow" your credit card or your car!

One of the concepts people struggle to understand is proper format diversity. Having lots of decks that all play similarly is not the diversity we seek. Having decks that play differently but use largely identical lists also isn't "diversity". Is it rare to have that "ideal" format where a super majority of the card pool is used for the competitive format, and what is left is just "less competitive" and not filler, but that is still what we hope for and what Creatures, Inc. should be at least attempting to deliver.

It's basically impossible to have that much of a card pool be viable. I've personally never seen it happen in any CCG and I've been playing all manner of CCGs competitively for more than a decade.

The most balanced and varied format of any CCG I've personally seen was Universal Fighting System, before they banned Defender of the Empire. That world championship had 10 of the game's 12 resource symbols represented in the top 16. It still wasn't a healthy format though, considering the aggro decks were winning on turn 2 and the control decks were locking their opponents out of the game almost completely on turn 3.


Now back to the World Championship reprints... you ARE aware that the WC decks are 100% non-legal right? Mew ex for example being Jason's WC deck... didn't affect the card's value in the slightest. If you wanted to pilot a Mew ex deck... you had to pony up. Same with Speed Spread. That juicy Jolteon STAR? Totally worthless, a showpiece.
 
To avoid getting lost in my usual ramblings, I'll answer two things. Doesn't mean I am ignoring the rest, just figure it is simpler this way.

On the matter of World Championship decks... I didn't bring them up to demonstrate the availability of cards. I do not recall making that claim, either. This leads to a strange request; either here or via PM, let me know what I said that made you think otherwise. I'd like to avoid confusing people in the future (I do that enough already). I brought them up because we were discussing the format relevant to those decks; they are contemporaries of each other and of Mewtrick, a deck you brought up to prove how overpowered Mew ex was, if I understood correctly.

I felt it prudent to point out that not only were B-L-S and Mewtrick contemporaries, but at least someplace in the Top 4 of the three age brackets, we got to see two very different decks also (Suns And Moons and Eeveelutions). Also, if it wasn't clear Suns and Moons was inexpensive to build from legal versions of the cards, not from the World Championship decks.

What the hell is Suns and Moons? You complain about me using the nickname Storm for LBS and then you follow it up with your own obscure deck nickname.

I am sorry for not going into the detail I did with Lugia ex/Blastoise ex/Steelix ex with Suns And Moons; it was an oversight and I was not trying to confuse you or apply a double standard. The thing is, the situations are not the same. First, I really am sorry I didn't define the deck - notice I did explain two of three I brought up (you brought up Mewtrick yourself so I figured I was safe there). Second, it wasn't my own obscure nickname but the name printed on the 2006 World Championship version of the deck.

If you check Bulbapedia, there is even an article on it. No, it is not an article I wrote up between posts. :wink: When I referred to B-L-S, Eeveelutions, and Mewtrick, those are the official names for the other 2006 World Championship decks, which is why Suns And Moons is listed with them.

So... I still don't recall "Storm" being used for LBS. I do remember Suns and Moons being used for Solrock/Lunatone decks, even if only because that was the name for the build used for the 2006 World Championship decks and it was spread afterwards.

Wanted to clear that up while I digest the rest, because frankly I wonder if my post was understood at all.
 
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In my opinion, it's a disgrace to compare the 2006-2007 formats to the current format. I mean Miska's Worlds winning "Suns&Moons deck" (more familiary known as LunaRock) costed under 100 dollars! And you know what the funny part was? He didn't even have all the cards to that deck himself!

Also, you can't say MewTric won Worlds "hands down". Heck, I played MewTric and went 3-5 and so did many other players. It wasn't the deck It was the player. The player mattered back then SO much more than nowadays. The format was even so balanced that all the top4 decks were different in the Masters. Lots of "expensive" decks like Queendom(no EXs) and MetaNite (!) were amongs the top4 decks. Holon Engine was already in the format, but still e.g. MewTric didn't play it.

And when it comes to LBS or "storm", one of the best counters to it was RockLock, which (again) had no EXs in it! The beauty of the format was that anyone could build a rogue deck and do well with it. And there were a lot of rogue decks during the whole season. LBS was arguably the best deck out there, but a deck with a bunch of EXs, Poké-Powers and stage2 Pokémon was SO easy to counter thanks to Pidgeot d, Houndoom, Solrock, Battle Frontier, Cursed Stone, ATM Rock. And also, in the same format where MewTric was the best deck "hands down" LBS was the best deck and Lugia EX was a must? What?

And about Speed Spread. Tom won Worlds with it and the 2nd placing deck was Flygon!! A deck that no one expected and thus being exteremely cheap. And that year's Worlds were filled with crazy rogues like Meganium D/techs etc. What else, Yamato with Empoleon/Infernape? A deck cheap as a shoe. What I mean to say that all the arguments that Tagrineth made about the previous formats' were so over-exaggerated that I just felt I needed post to this topic.


edit, addendum: and ironically, most of those formats had *fewer* tournament-viable decks than the current format does.

I believe that Tagrineth played back then, because he had knowledge about the decks, but this sentence... Whoa, just whoa! I'm speechless.

P.S. Sorry for the rant. I just played the previous formats a week ago and they were and are so much better than the current format in every way that I just couldn't sit back and watch.
 
Guys, if they were to announce something at nats, they would've done it on the first round, where everyone was there. Not on the last day when a lot of people are already gone or not participating in the main event...
 
End of story, it's ridiculous. I am sure they have a plan, but... I am sure I can safely say that many people share the sentiment. I don't care what/if there is a rotation, all I want is at least an idea of when to expect news.
 
Some news would be nice, I want to know if its even worth investing in this format anymore or what. I still have a hand full of cards to buy for my deck but I dont want to buy them if I can use them for another year or so. People dont know when to sell off their cards or not.
 
This seems like when the license was shifting, and the 'Gym was of the consensus, "Give me good news or give me bad news, but don't give me no news."

Because even a few years ago when there was no rotation, there was still an official announcement about it in June.
 
This seems like when the license was shifting, and the 'Gym was of the consensus, "Give me good news or give me bad news, but don't give me no news."

Because even a few years ago when there was no rotation, there was still an official announcement about it in June.

Which leads me to believe that it has something to do something with X and y.
 
But they have to say something soon, x and y don't come out till October and we have to know the format for battle roads at the very least
 
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