Africa

[CC-kun]

These people are starving. These are kids, the same age as the ones you play Pokemon with and some of them don't have parents and have to take care of their brothers and sisters. How would you feel if you know no one is trying to help and you have to watch your family die and you can't do anything about it and all you can say is they have nothing to offer. Man I hope you don't need anyone one day because I really hate people who think like that.

You know I see your point, but again start from home first. There may not be as many people starving and dying here, but we are and always been AMERICA, not Africa. When we solve our own problems then we should help others, I know that sound selfish and all, but if we give everything we have to helping others then what do we have left to help ourselves?

 

[edwarpy]

I actually am not taking any philosophy classes this semester. Won't be for at least 8 more months at least

I haven't bought a booster pack in many years.

And yeah, this is another stir-the-pot exercise. And here you are joining on and making this into a much bigger deal and highlighting to the world your ignorance.

I gave an honest, thoughtful response. And this is what you got? Really? Cheap character
assassination with a cheesy superior dance? What a dud you are.

You're talking about the condition of human suffering and your pie-in-the-sky dreams, but
I'm the one making a big deal? What a joke you are, little man.

Care to point out the ignorance, actually address something I said, o enlightened [DEL]one[/DEL] troll?

*plonk*

 

[CC-kun]

I gave an honest, thoughtful response. And this is what you got? Really? Cheap character
assassination with a cheesy superior dance? What a dud you are.

You're talking about the condition of human suffering and your pie-in-the-sky dreams, but
I'm the one making a big deal? What a joke you are, little man.

Care to point out the ignorance, actually address something I said, o enlightened [DEL]one[/DEL] troll?

*plonk*

"Applause" You sir have my respect, it may not be worth much, but it's something not many people have. :biggrin:

 

[pat460]

I gave an honest, thoughtful response. And this is what you got? Really? Cheap character
assassination with a cheesy superior dance? What a dud you are.

You're talking about the condition of human suffering and your pie-in-the-sky dreams, but
I'm the one making a big deal? What a joke you are, little man.

Care to point out the ignorance, actually address something I said, o enlightened [DEL]one[/DEL] troll?

*plonk*

kerpwnt?

ryan, you loose. period. Unless you come up with the greatest reponse ever, you cant beat 3 people that are all telling you you are wrong. gg

*plants victory flag*

 

[ryanvergel]

Nice Ryan, skip me because you have no response or is ir because you are agreeing with me, and saying that I am right? Please, PLEASE respond to my post, you have no idea how much I enjoy arguements like this, in which two people of similar intellects battle over a completely subjective subject. PLEASE respond, or give me at least the satasfaction of conceding.

Vaporeon, you ignored me as well. It isn't so much an "I will help you if you can help me later." thing. its mroe of a "There is no point in giving you help because if I help you now, within 2 years, all evidence of my help will have disapeared because of your stupidity."

Dont take the word stupidity wrong; I am not making fun of Africans. It isn't their fault. It is the fault of their culture as a whole for remaining uneducated. No one wants to help people who wont change. For instance, who knows if we were to build some sort of buiding to help them how long it would take for it to be destroyed in some tribal fight?

I would love to have a discussion with you, but as I told SPARTA- you can't have an intelligent conversation with someone who is clinging to racist ideas.

 

[ryanvergel]

1. Privately the US gives more. I did not attack the private affluence of America. I am criticizing the government, and still the general populace, but to a much lesser extent. The private population may give more than other countries, but that is NOT the case with the government. So, I did not present misinformation, you simply opted to show private vs government charity. This does not mean that we could not still give MORE.
2.

pat460 has a valid, practical point. When you save 50,000 souls today, you have not solved
the problem, you have only delayed/compounded it. Populations will adjust to account for the
resources available to support them.

But why do I sense this is all academic, fodder for your next Philosophy class paper?
Judging intents is difficult, especially with e-words, but I'm not feeling real passion here,
brother. Seems like another stir-the-pot exercise. You're on a Pokemon forum. How can
you, with any good conscience buy a booster pack? How can you possibly ever level-up
again without being dragged down by the weight of how much rice and beans that X could buy?

Just bland, baseless assumptions about my intentions, and a cheap sarcastic parody of my own concerns over my greed. Very cool. Very funny and mature.

You're agreeing and aligning yourself with pat640, who is clearly and obviously racist and ignorant, and agreeing that there is a goodness and positive side to millions of people starving to death. You obviously have no compassion or care.

You gave an honest one, yes. Thoughtful, I disagree. You just spouted off nonsense about how you deserve to give yourself luxury (which I did not disagree with, I even said that I give myself luxuries, but this does NOT mean that we do not indulge far beyond our need and could instead help people)

You're talking about the condition of human suffering and your pie-in-the-sky dreams, but
I'm the one making a big deal? What a joke you are, little man.

I have pie in the sky dreams of hundreds of millions not starving despite our having the resources to help? You're not even making sense there. How is a dream of that nature, when we clearly and obviously have the means and resources to help? You're just unwilling and ignorant- convincing yourself that it is better for the world to NOT have these people.

Did you read the Hardin essay I tried to paste here, or at least realize that the argument ONLY works, and RESTS on the assumption that we are unable to help others, when we are.

kerpwnt?

ryan, you loose. period. Unless you come up with the greatest reponse ever, you cant beat 3 people that are all telling you you are wrong. gg

*plants victory flag*

I ignore you because you are a waste of time to respond to. This isn't about winning or losing. This is about millions of people dying every year while we gorge ourselves and overindulge and don't ask our government or ourselves to help those obviously in need.

This is about greed. All you're showing, pat, is that you're more concerned with "winning an argument "(which I don't think you're doing?), and this is purely another instance of obvious greed on your part. Why don't you care more about saving starving innocents than inflating your ego because I won't respond to your unintelligible posts.

 

[Ardoptres]

If I read this right, in 2008 the US government gave nearly $5.1 billion in aid to Africa. Thats a fair amount of money. Also remember that this is just money from the US government. It doesn't count individual donations, charities etc.

5.1? That's not much. Denmark gives about $2, if we say the exchange right is 5 DKK to $1. (it is higher right now, but 5 is pretty avg on the exchange thing).
And you are like a 641684684668468 times richer country than us. Lol.

 

[ryanvergel]

5.1? That's not much. Denmark gives about $2, if we say the exchange right is 5 DKK to $1. (it is higher right now, but 5 is pretty avg on the exchange thing).
And you are like a 641684684668468 times richer country than us. Lol.

The US Government gives out an abyssmal amount of aid to Africa for some reason, especially compared to other, namely European, nations.

We were also 30 years behind on the whole slavery issue too (emancipating a solid 30+ years after Britain, for example). Maybe in 30 years, after enough millions have died, people in this thread will get over their biases lol.

 

[PuRpLe]

didn't read the whole thread, forgive me

The racism word is being thrown around so stupidly/irresponsibly in this thread lolz. Sure, some statements about "inferior culture" sound it but most of the others are alright and I didn't get offended (and I am one racially sensitive person, trust me).

Anyway, I'm gonna quote from a book :

"...somebody who, while enjoying the money, previledge, and power" (of living in America and being Caucasian)
"...does nothing but offer verbal sympathy"
"..somebody who merely wishes that things will get better while having no intention of giving anything.."

But, sometimes, I don't really those types.. it's true, many Africans are very old school. Why is HIV running rampant in most African countries? Because many people there believe contraception is against God and all that. Many will not hear otherwise at all. Now, I believe in God, but I believe if (s)he exists (s)he would want me to avoid sickness/destruction! I saw a documetary type program (and I forget exactly where in Africa it was) where the men like the women FAT. The program followed a young girl who was forced to live in a tiny hut and was forced to drink loads of goats milk 24/7 because she was too "skinny" and her chosen husband wouldn't marry her until she bulked up. And she wasn't skinny or starved at all. She was regular sized. Meanwhile, she said her grandmother who did the same thing and remained obese had health issues and could barely walk. Seriously, what the heck? The girl actually had some sense though, she said she wouldn't want to put her daughters through that. But to be honest, most people aren't like that and they will follow tradition despite how destructive it might be.

Also, most likely, those quotes = those who are acting so righteous in this thread. It's hiarious, seriously. Do you want people to apologize for living in America and having an mp3 player? Haha, sure bud! Trust me, I grew up dead broke/poor and live in public housing... but when I got a job and decided to buy myself something enjoyable do you think I'm going to feel guilty about it? Puh-leeze. I haven't been economically fortunate enough to buy a computer/laptop to be able to put music on the player yet but I do go to school & use the computers there and freeload of my friends who do have laptops.

Africa has all the potential in the world, but I admit, I have no clue where (in trying to help) it would need to start. The government is so corrupt, the people might elect a person but that person they elected to office will destroy them even furthur! Then also the donation thing, how much has America given in dollars? I'm guessing greed and corruption made most of that useless.​

 

[ryanvergel]

I'm saying that we all have luxuries and commodities and superfluous, outrageously wasteful things we could NOT splurge on and save lives. I never said people should have no luxury.

Please read my posts =\

 

[bullados]

I notice that you mention every single word here, except my own. Well, here it is again...

I have two words to say about this entire topic.

South Africa.

Here's a country that had everything, and I truly mean EVERYTHING, going for it. The richest repository of diamonds in the world. Amazing scenery. Tourist traps galore. A thriving economy (60s). Even though it was based on Apartheid, the country was generally in good shape.

Then, Apartheid ended (a good thing), and the entire country went to heck in a handbasket in less than 10 years.

The crime rate in the country is astronomical. My mother's brother was held up twice and mugged once. His wife was held up once. They refused to leave until they were held up in their own house. My father's mother lived in fear every day, wouldn't leave the house to go anywhere except pick up the kids and come right back to the house. Every house in Johannesburg is protected by 10-20 foot walls, and the garages are all gated, remote entry, front, sides, and top. And people are still robbed, mugged, and held up every day. Far more in Johannesburg than in New York City. People don't dare leave their houses to go on vacation, because squatters rule the country, and personal property has no meaning. Currently, the South African Rand is trading at about 10:1 to the US Dollar. That's 1 USD will buy 10 Rand. My sister went on a clothes shopping spree when we were last there. Bought at least 30 articles of clothing (not socks, nice stuff), and spent less than $200 on it. The lady at the counter had never seen so many clothes bought at once before. The supermarket closes at 5pm because the workers refuse to work beyond that for fear of raiders, and they close earlier on weekends. Their minister of health is famous for stating that AIDS isn't caused by a virus.

Until the native peoples of the region are able to control themselves and accept the help they are given, they can't be helped, and it's not worth trying.

 

[drmario]

1. Privately the US gives more. I did not attack the private affluence of America. I am criticizing the government, and still the general populace, but to a much lesser extent. The private population may give more than other countries, but that is NOT the case with the government. So, I did not present misinformation, you simply opted to show private vs government charity. This does not mean that we could not still give MORE.
2.

Thats good. If you haven't noticed the government isn't very good at spending their money. I would think that charities with limited budgets will be much more careful with how they spend their money. After all if the government goes over budget all they have to do it borrow more.

 

[Croatian_Nidoking]

So, what could an ordinary citizen do to reduce corruption and misery in the region and help overthrow the tyrannical governments there? For example, what charities would you folks recommend?

And no, I won't accept "nothing" for an answer.

- Croatian_Nidoking

 

[PokemansForGeeks]

....and where do you get your mis-information? Americans are generous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_charitable_countries

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-25-charitable_N.htm

Sorry if it doesn't hit the 30+% mark you seem to want.

I've been where you are, maybe worse, living off 1$ cans of Hormel chili and a pack of
crackers. Because I've been there I don't wanna go back. I've worked hard to get whatever
little slice of success I have and I appreciate being blessed enough to be born in the time
and place to have that opportunity, cuz very few are.

I bust my hump in the salt mines 40+ a week. If I don't treat myself to a $10+ steak
dinner and a booster box here and there, it'll suck the life outta me. Maybe you'll
understand that in another 20 years.

I already carry burdens. Ya, I know it could be worse. Know what? It can always be worse,
get consolation out of that. The gov't skims a quick 1/3 off me. I need another 1/3. You're
asking for the other 1/3? Good luck, not looking to carry the burden of the world. It would be
irresponsible (to my family) for me to do so. Maybe you'll understand that in another 20 years.

Helping the nearby vs. helping the unknown halfway across the planet? Get real. If I help
my neighbor, it helps my environment, I see it. Maybe I pass him on the street, he tells me
about his new job, about the guy he helped, drops a Shaymin X on me. Beats shovelling cash
off into the great unknown.

pat460 has a valid, practical point. When you save 50,000 souls today, you have not solved
the problem, you have only delayed/compounded it. Populations will adjust to account for the
resources available to support them.

But why do I sense this is all academic, fodder for your next Philosophy class paper?
Judging intents is difficult, especially with e-words, but I'm not feeling real passion here,
brother. Seems like another stir-the-pot exercise. You're on a Pokemon forum. How can
you, with any good conscience buy a booster pack? How can you possibly ever level-up
again without being dragged down by the weight of how much rice and beans that X could buy?

Thank you for outlining why (most) Americans get such a bad name.

"I work 100000 hours a week! So I deserve to keep EVERYTHING I GET!!11!!1!!! Screw the community! Screw other people! I want my luxury steaks and pOKEMAN CARDS@!!!"

And the people that work just as hard and don't succeed? What do they get? A pat on the back?

Puh-leeeeez.

I don't know if any of you are Christian/religious but I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ focused mainly on helping the community (aka other people) instead of himself (aka selfishness)

But who would want to live there life like Jesus? lol

 

[moza]

The government can't give money it doesn't have, and yet we already do send billions of dollars in foreign aid even though we are so deep in debt it's rigoddangdiculous.

Even with the large economic hit the private sector and citizens have taken, we (citizens) still donate money privately.

What more do you want us to do?

I don't think companies right now have the capital to go to a far off country and build infastructure help warring tribes (don't call me racist, tribes to go to war >_>).

I don't think that many Americans would be willing to leave their friends, their family, and culture to travel to a far off country to try to start a farm to feed children.

However, we DO send food, we DO send money, we DO have the Red Cross and other altruistic groups that DO go out and help.

I don't know what more you want us to do, you yourself said you aren't able to travel to Africa.
Besides, why Africa and not India? People are STILL dying in China too! ...And Russia, and Mexico, and every other country on the planet.

Did you really choose Africa because you think they deserve it more, or are you just trying to get a point across?

 

[Ardoptres]

"Every other country in the world". I suppose you werent serious. Lol

 

[ryanvergel]

Did you really choose Africa because you think they deserve it more, or are you just trying to get a point across?

I chose Africa because this is the exact kind of mindset NOT to have. EVERYONE deserves to be fed.

 

[ryanvergel]

I notice that you mention every single word here, except my own. Well, here it is again...

I have two words to say about this entire topic.

South Africa.

Here's a country that had everything, and I truly mean EVERYTHING, going for it. The richest repository of diamonds in the world. Amazing scenery. Tourist traps galore. A thriving economy (60s). Even though it was based on Apartheid, the country was generally in good shape.

Then, Apartheid ended (a good thing), and the entire country went to heck in a handbasket in less than 10 years.

The crime rate in the country is astronomical. My mother's brother was held up twice and mugged once. His wife was held up once. They refused to leave until they were held up in their own house. My father's mother lived in fear every day, wouldn't leave the house to go anywhere except pick up the kids and come right back to the house. Every house in Johannesburg is protected by 10-20 foot walls, and the garages are all gated, remote entry, front, sides, and top. And people are still robbed, mugged, and held up every day. Far more in Johannesburg than in New York City. People don't dare leave their houses to go on vacation, because squatters rule the country, and personal property has no meaning. Currently, the South African Rand is trading at about 10:1 to the US Dollar. That's 1 USD will buy 10 Rand. My sister went on a clothes shopping spree when we were last there. Bought at least 30 articles of clothing (not socks, nice stuff), and spent less than $200 on it. The lady at the counter had never seen so many clothes bought at once before. The supermarket closes at 5pm because the workers refuse to work beyond that for fear of raiders, and they close earlier on weekends. Their minister of health is famous for stating that AIDS isn't caused by a virus.

Until the native peoples of the region are able to control themselves and accept the help they are given, they can't be helped, and it's not worth trying.

What am I supposed to respond to? You posted a personal account of your experience in a specific country out of many on a continent.

I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say or do with that account. The South African country fell apart after the previous racist regime fell.

Okay, is that a good enough response? I guess I should tell some personal stories about my travels around the world too? Or is this some attempt to show that starving people don't deserve to eat because South Africa has corrupt politics and a failing economic system?

 

[yoyofsho16]

I feel bad about all those people suffering over there, I really do. BUT, if we keep trying to help others and never help our selves, WE will be the ones who will soon be suffering. It may sound selfish, but its just not possible for us to fix the entire world. Its up to THEM to start working together to find a way to solve their problems. All these countries with all these HUGE problems need to stop whining, actually try and DO something, and stop relying on everyone else to help them. Its like a homeless guy who whines and complains that he doesn't have any food or a home, yet, he isn't willing to actually pick his lazy butt up and go get a job.

There are soooo many things wrong with that statement.

First off, you have to have capital to help yourself out of a pit. You can't just say "Let's go buy supplies to make ourselves a better country!" That's not how it works. When you're dealing with some of the poorest nations (yet most densely populated) out there, you aren't just going to be able to do that, it isn't free.

Secondly, if we stop and help people just a little, we wont be suffering NEARLY as much as they will.

 

[pat460]

I would love to have a discussion with you, but as I told SPARTA- you can't have an intelligent conversation with someone who is clinging to racist ideas.

...You're agreeing and aligning yourself with pat640, who is clearly and obviously racist and ignorant, and agreeing that there is a goodness and positive side to millions of people starving to death. You obviously have no compassion or care.


...you're more concerned with "winning an argument "(which I don't think you're doing?),

Ok here we go.

I would love to have a discussion with you, but as I told SPARTA- you can't have an intelligent conversation with someone who is clinging to racist ideas.

Whats racist about my posts? Please show me. Really please do.

...You're agreeing and aligning yourself with pat640, who is clearly and obviously racist and ignorant, and agreeing that there is a goodness and positive side to millions of people starving to death. You obviously have no compassion or care.

Once again, show me my racism. And there IS a goodness in millions of people dieing. If they DIDN"T, we would overuse our food, water, energy, and land supplies at a rate that I cant really calculate, and we would ALL DIE. A solution to this problem would be for Africa to control their population, but they choose not to.And, I am not sure about the person you were responding to, but I dont have much compassion for people who wont change and obviously dont care that the world would to help them if they did.

...you're more concerned with "winning an argument "(which I don't think you're doing?),

I assumed I won because you ignored me as if you had no response. I am sure anyone would have done the same. And, I like to argue. Its a hobbie, so, yes I am concerned with winning.