Arithmetic as seen by Jimmy Ballard
- Thread starter BANGINBOX
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JandPDS
New Member
Awsome deck
Yes, I agree it is an excellent deck, I was very impressed with it when I saw it at regionals. IF you make one mistake against it when you go up against it, it can be fatal. You have to have a very careful strategy because once this deck gets set up it can really get on a roll. Good job. I feel that this is a much stronger deck then the Answer was, although that is just supposition on my part because I have never faced an Answer deck and I did play against this one.
Yes, I agree it is an excellent deck, I was very impressed with it when I saw it at regionals. IF you make one mistake against it when you go up against it, it can be fatal. You have to have a very careful strategy because once this deck gets set up it can really get on a roll. Good job. I feel that this is a much stronger deck then the Answer was, although that is just supposition on my part because I have never faced an Answer deck and I did play against this one.
UnKnOwN 111
New Member
100% True.....:thumb:
and the fact that they ALWAYS have an impact on the metagame makes it even better!
ryanvergel
New Member
Energy switch, attach WP, retreat gyarados/cresselia for free, BOOM!
I always liked the cess crystal in the deck. I tested it with 0-4 pluspower, 0-2 cess, and with a consistent engine and the deck has a lot of options. Cess crystal is still really unexpected against so many decks, and late-game you can cessation a banette and stop the opponent in their tracks. Or even unexpectedly use a cessation on gyarados if you have 4 energy.
It was an amazing deck, Jimmy. I wish I could've run it, but it was a known deck in FL with people either teching against it or taking it into consideration (garchomps around, ape, swampert in GG, lati-lock, etc).
From playtesting though, it had an amazing positive run. I only twice once with it while playtesting it at least 8 times. 3-0 vs magmortar (1 undecided), 0-1 vs chomp, and 2-1 vs GG.
The deck gives you OPTIONS. Options are the key.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
The 2 mentor made the deck a lot more consistent for discarding banettes early, which the deck sometimes ran into problems with, and also helped with consistent starts. I ran 2 roseannes with my 2 mentor and dropped the balls for celios/wager and pluspowers. It made the deck a tad harder vs GG, but with gyarados and banette GG is still a positive matchup, but being able to guarantee my draw and claydol (who was absolutely crucial for the deck's success) was worth it IMO, for me at least.
I also like 3 energy switch because I almost always needed them.
I also wanted to try to fit in a 1/1 lanturn to get back my psychic energies (and with energy switch allowing me a free attachable energy) or to drop a DRE with for 80+, which could be key for easy damage. 80 damage is the deck's main mark.
The deck is just crazy. If the opponent didn't know what you were running, you had such a HUGE advantage over them with the cards like warp, wp, cresselia, energy switch, lake boundary, pluspowers if ran, cess if ran, and just general tricks with damage manipulation. The opponent can't predict a double energy switch+attachment on a cresselia to hit for 80 damage on a gardevoir and take 2 prizes... or to hit a magmortar even if they healed after you banette attack them. Many, many options and trickeries.
Also, wager is pretty crucial IMO. Too often my opponents had exactly what they wanted and didn't need to fear about having their hand disrupted.
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(TYranitarFReak)
New Member
Thanks Jimmy, thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks.....!
What is pokemon tcg w/o you?
What is pokemon tcg w/o you?
Ardoptres
New Member
The deck just seems so random to me.
"Hey, Banette counters GG, lets play that! But wait, what about Magmotar?"
"Hmm, I dunno, Gyarados is the only think that might work"
"Yeah, I can't think of anything els, lets try that!"
"But how is Gyarados going to get damage counters on it vs. Magmortar?"
"I know! Lets just throw in some Cresselias! Jolteon* is such a bad starter anyways, and then you also need SSUs...."
"Yeah, but how is this ever gonna be consistent?"
"We'll just use Claydol, OK?"
"Yeah, but remember not to play Celio's or anything, you don't want GG to take advantage of that!!"
"Master- or Dusk Ball can fetch some pokemon! Lets hope it fetches Claydol along with the other pokemon when we need them!"
"Yesss. We broke the format. We're soooo good."
..End.
Kudos to those who did good with it though! :thumb:
"Hey, Banette counters GG, lets play that! But wait, what about Magmotar?"
"Hmm, I dunno, Gyarados is the only think that might work"
"Yeah, I can't think of anything els, lets try that!"
"But how is Gyarados going to get damage counters on it vs. Magmortar?"
"I know! Lets just throw in some Cresselias! Jolteon* is such a bad starter anyways, and then you also need SSUs...."
"Yeah, but how is this ever gonna be consistent?"
"We'll just use Claydol, OK?"
"Yeah, but remember not to play Celio's or anything, you don't want GG to take advantage of that!!"
"Master- or Dusk Ball can fetch some pokemon! Lets hope it fetches Claydol along with the other pokemon when we need them!"
"Yesss. We broke the format. We're soooo good."
..End.
Kudos to those who did good with it though! :thumb:
You nailed it... How dare you give our secrets....:tongue:
Do you seriously think this is how it came about? It was an evolution over time that finally pulled this deck together. Starting with the board control deck, I discovered that Cresselia was a great attacker to keep you in games. Then came THE ANSWER, which showed me the full potential of Gyrados. Benette seemed logical for the no energy attack, as I was attaching to Cress and Dos. But your so right... Claydol is for consistancy (who'd have thunk it?)... You got me there! What would we do without people of your intellegence? You are SOOOO smart...
And by the way... We DID break the format.... We ARE just that good..
Jimmy
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Banny/Gyarados is just part of it. The deck doesn't work without Cresselia lv.X (imho). It's Cresselia lv.X that moves damage counters around so Banette can OHKO those 130HP beasts. It's Cresselia lv.X that allows Gyarados to start attacking early by moving a damage counter on it. Even though I never saw it attack in my games with it, I could definitely tell Cresselia lv.X was a big part of the deck and was almost the glue that kept everything stuck together while Claydol was the gear that made sure everything kept working.
To compare your idea, a friend of mine had been playing Magmortar/Typhlosion since MT came out, but it was a dud. I ended up telling him recently about Magmortar/Typhlosion/Delcatty, how it was winning a lot of tournaments. Did he have the same idea, even though he was just missing one line? Not really. Same logic applies here.
To compare your idea, a friend of mine had been playing Magmortar/Typhlosion since MT came out, but it was a dud. I ended up telling him recently about Magmortar/Typhlosion/Delcatty, how it was winning a lot of tournaments. Did he have the same idea, even though he was just missing one line? Not really. Same logic applies here.
I really like Lanturn+Cress+Energy Switch combo, and since Gatr D is the rogue deck of choice around here, I can hit their weakness with it as well. The problem is that the deck is already a bit tight. Any idea on what to cut to fit in 1-1 Lanturn and another Energy Switch?
Tight is right. In my games with the deck, it seemed the usual setup was 2 Banette (1 active or 2 benched, ready to attack), 2 Cresselia lv.X (important to get 2 going, I think), 1 Claydol (important) and 1 Gyarados. I guess in some cases, the Gyarados might not be needed, but I feel the rest is pretty vital. You have to have the 2 Cresselia lv.X out, or it will take too long to move damage counters around. You have to have Claydol out. You might could go 1 Banette with a shuppet in hand, but then you leave yourself open to Wager.
It's a VERY tight deck.
It's a VERY tight deck.
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
The deck really doesn't work nearly as well with only 1 Cress. You are 100% right on that Prime.
I've also come to think that Claydol is one of the decks biggest weaknesses. As Jimmy pointed out it's in there for consistency ... but with a 2-2 line and a ball engine you don't always get it early and the deck really seems to need it. Depending on Claydol also hurts you somewhat vs Mags (can be OHKOed by Blaziken or Mags X) and PLOX since they can just make it dead space on your bench for stretches. Without Claydol the decks consistency as a whole suffers a lot, making it well worth it for your opponent to neutralize Claydoll as the long term effect can swing the game.
Cessation Crystal can also be problematic for the deck. No Dragon DNA, No Cosmic Power, & No Full Moon Dance basically forces Arithmetic into far less efficient options IMHO. Warp Point might send it to the bench but that will not help if they have two attached in play. Since Windstorm was so underplayed in general at Regionals I saw the decks playing Cess do this frequently for the continuous lock. In my testing ironically things T2 Blissey with Sableye and Cess gave Arithmetic far more problems than Mags or Garde.
With all that said the deck might appear at first glance to only be a G&G/Mags counter but that’s simply not the case. The three main attacking cards have amazing synergy and the whole does become more than the sum of the parts. Despite occasional blips due to a ball engine the deck simply sets up more times than not and it can easily set itself up to take multiple prizes in a single round, disrupt opponents with free retreat/warp point, and so much more.
It's worth noting that Arthmetic was the 3rd most winning deck in Regionals ... and given the small number of players using it relitive to things like G&G that's a big accomplishment!
I've also come to think that Claydol is one of the decks biggest weaknesses. As Jimmy pointed out it's in there for consistency ... but with a 2-2 line and a ball engine you don't always get it early and the deck really seems to need it. Depending on Claydol also hurts you somewhat vs Mags (can be OHKOed by Blaziken or Mags X) and PLOX since they can just make it dead space on your bench for stretches. Without Claydol the decks consistency as a whole suffers a lot, making it well worth it for your opponent to neutralize Claydoll as the long term effect can swing the game.
Cessation Crystal can also be problematic for the deck. No Dragon DNA, No Cosmic Power, & No Full Moon Dance basically forces Arithmetic into far less efficient options IMHO. Warp Point might send it to the bench but that will not help if they have two attached in play. Since Windstorm was so underplayed in general at Regionals I saw the decks playing Cess do this frequently for the continuous lock. In my testing ironically things T2 Blissey with Sableye and Cess gave Arithmetic far more problems than Mags or Garde.
With all that said the deck might appear at first glance to only be a G&G/Mags counter but that’s simply not the case. The three main attacking cards have amazing synergy and the whole does become more than the sum of the parts. Despite occasional blips due to a ball engine the deck simply sets up more times than not and it can easily set itself up to take multiple prizes in a single round, disrupt opponents with free retreat/warp point, and so much more.
It's worth noting that Arthmetic was the 3rd most winning deck in Regionals ... and given the small number of players using it relitive to things like G&G that's a big accomplishment!
every time any deck is posted, you say someone in your country ran it first, just like the blissey deck you guys "invented."
Ardoptres
New Member
No one invented Blissey lol.
ryanvergel
New Member
Chris Bianchi invented Blissey, actually.
ryanvergel
New Member
EDIT: He also invented GG.
You beat me to it =(
You beat me to it =(