Ok, ill be the first to argue this. How does Blaziken EX not change the game? It completely takes a format and mashes it into another. ANY card that literally is able to take 1 deck and put it over the top and name indusputably the best deck SEEMS to change the game to me. Granted a Blaziken EX deck wont be the deck to do this. it will be BAR but still its that cards ability that is throwing over the top. therefore the card IS chaning the game.
Ban Blaziken Ex: Save The Format
- Thread starter Tyranitar666
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TrueGamerX
New Member
Well about 85% of the people that go to the States Championships, will have BAR decks guaranteed. It is just a bunch of mirror matches.
"Oh I can set up my Blaziken faster WOOHOO", *opponent hands a cookie*
"Oh I can set up my Blaziken faster WOOHOO", *opponent hands a cookie*
Pidgeotto Trainer
New Member
Ok I'll debate a bit.
Wooper-Whether Blaziken ex is a deck or part of a deck, whether Gatr was a deck or just part of a deck, 1 Pokemon card CAN change the game. If 1 card makes 1 type of deck so much higher on the imaginary scale than all other decks, does it matter what we call that card whether the deck focus or not the deck focus? That 1 card puts BAR too high on the charts and that is why many of us think it should be banned. The deck is beatable sometimes but is still incredibly dominant. I don't want a format of 80% BAR and 20% BAR counters that there still isn't a really consistant one. Do you?
Wooper-Whether Blaziken ex is a deck or part of a deck, whether Gatr was a deck or just part of a deck, 1 Pokemon card CAN change the game. If 1 card makes 1 type of deck so much higher on the imaginary scale than all other decks, does it matter what we call that card whether the deck focus or not the deck focus? That 1 card puts BAR too high on the charts and that is why many of us think it should be banned. The deck is beatable sometimes but is still incredibly dominant. I don't want a format of 80% BAR and 20% BAR counters that there still isn't a really consistant one. Do you?
You want to know what I think?....::crickets heard chirping in the background::
Well fine, I'll tell you anyway. I think everyone here can agree that Blaziken EX on its own isn't that tough of a card. In order for it to be so "broken" you have to have a Ampharos and a firestarter Blaziken sitting on your bench, right? The Volcanic Ash attack discards two fire energy. Firestarter pulls them from the discard pile then Ampharos attatches them back to Blaziken EX. Is that the theory?
So, why would they ban the card? It isn't the card but the combo that makes it good.
What I think is that it was a mistake. I wonder if they anticipated it would be used this way, in combo with two other cards.
Rather than ban, wouldn't a better solution be to limit the ex pokemon? Either limit them to less than 4 per deck, or they could change the rule about EX pokemon being different than their namesakes. That way you could only have 4 Blaziken EX, without a Blaze firestarter, or you could choose to have two of each and you would run the risk of one being in your prizes.
To me this makes SO much more sense than banning a card. It just seems so un-American!
---Nicole
WeileMom
Well fine, I'll tell you anyway. I think everyone here can agree that Blaziken EX on its own isn't that tough of a card. In order for it to be so "broken" you have to have a Ampharos and a firestarter Blaziken sitting on your bench, right? The Volcanic Ash attack discards two fire energy. Firestarter pulls them from the discard pile then Ampharos attatches them back to Blaziken EX. Is that the theory?
So, why would they ban the card? It isn't the card but the combo that makes it good.
What I think is that it was a mistake. I wonder if they anticipated it would be used this way, in combo with two other cards.
Rather than ban, wouldn't a better solution be to limit the ex pokemon? Either limit them to less than 4 per deck, or they could change the rule about EX pokemon being different than their namesakes. That way you could only have 4 Blaziken EX, without a Blaze firestarter, or you could choose to have two of each and you would run the risk of one being in your prizes.
To me this makes SO much more sense than banning a card. It just seems so un-American!
---Nicole
WeileMom
mozartrules
New Member
WeileMom said:
Limiting EX Pokemon to four would not make a difference, the Blaziken deck is just fine with 2 Blaziken EX and 2 Rayquaza EX. Any limit lower than that would seriously impact other EX Pokemon and I don't think that is the way to go.
The problem with at most 4 Blaziken (regular or EX) is that that might affect other cards as well (Swampert comes to mind) and a more serious issue: This would be a rule change which is a much more dramatic change that banning a card.
I think we exactly are in the same situation as Rocket-On Feraligatr. We have a card (or more correct, a collection of cards) that works so well together that the deck is superior to all other decks [I define that losely as a deck that can play even with decks specifically designed to beat it]. We could take any part of the collection away in order to weaken the deck (Feraligatr would have been weakened a lot be removing Wrath or Thrash Exchange) to make a more competitive field.
Banning Firestarter Blaziken would be the most effective, one could ban Blaziken EX or even Rayquaza EX which at least would make the deck more vulnerable to water. Even taking Delcatty away would weaken the deck since one of the problems with Blaziken decks is that they can use Delcatty (with or without Oracle) and turn the discard that hurts other decks into an advantage.
Among the many options available to weaken the BAR + Blaziken EX deck banning Blaziken EX seems the simplest to me, but I would be open to banning Rayquaza instead (which could have the interesting effect that people would stop using Crystal Shard which again might make Salamance and Flygon more competitive).
I have seen a number of people in this thread saying that Blaziken will be beaten by decks in the coming two sets. That is hopefully true, but we don't want to make state and nationals a single-deck exhibition while we wait for salvation.
MilesReturns
Member
SuperWooper said:
That statement just bothers me...
1. First off, you missed the obvious, Genesis Cleffa... Secondly, there are tons more cards that have "changed" the game... Anything with a baby power, Metal Energy, Fossil Muk, Destiny Magcargo, Aquapolis Scizor, Rayquaza ex... The list goes on. Anything that shifts the metagame, just because of it's presence qualifies as a "game changer".
Remember Origins or GenCon last year? There might have been 5 decks that included Crystal Shard or Skyridge Ditto, now... since the release of EX: Dragon and a certain card named... Rayquaza ex (And no one say "There's other dragons!" because we all know that they're not used nearly as much...), many players now play these cards, just as a counter-measure to mainly one card. Crystal Shard went from being a worthless "shoebox" card to being a staple in a lot of players decks.. If that's not "game changing", then I don't know what is..
2. CPU Search and Prof. Oak didn't change the game, because there was nothing to change, those cards were released in the first set... That's like saying "Fire Energy changed the game".
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It doesn't really matter what anyone says in this thread, but the fact that one card has sparked so much discussion should be a clue that this card WILL change the game. What exactly does that mean? Not much, except that finding a way to beat it will become somewhat important, but it's not gonna kill the game. Frankly, I don't care if it gets banned or not... If it does, good for it... If it doesn't, then counter-decks will arise. Either way, I'm not gonna stop playing...
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NoPoke
Active Member
Wooper: I think you are understating the impact of any card that can do 100 damage to any pokemon. With the introduction of BlazipestEX the Bench is no longer a place where you build up you forces. Rather it has become the place where your opponent gets their next prize. 
Maybe we will have to refer to our actives as INACTIVES since unless they offer a significant threat to BlaziPestEX it will just ignore them and feed on your bench.Chomp Chomp Chomp Chomp Chomp game over!
Maybe we will have to refer to our actives as INACTIVES since unless they offer a significant threat to BlaziPestEX it will just ignore them and feed on your bench.Chomp Chomp Chomp Chomp Chomp game over!SuperWooper
New Member
TheDeuce said:
Genesis Cleffa, that's true. *smacks himself on the forehead* As for Computer Search and Oak not changing the game, they did. They were in every player's deck. Slowking, Cleffa, Search, Oak, they were is everybody's deck when they were legal. I'm not saying this is a qualification for changing the game, but it is pretty important.
I think G8r changed the game. It was an entirely new deck that would RUN OVER anything in its path. I played Murkrow/Erika's V-bell, simply because 1) it was a good deck, and 2) G8r was weak to grass - XP. Blaziken EX is making an existing deck stronger.
Here's the deal, from my standpoint: the BAR deck is the most powerful, overall, deck right now. Blaziken EX makes it harder to beat. But if you could beat BAR decks before, then just up your game a little bit. Become a better player, think of strategies and ways to beat it.
If you're that afraid, then everybody just play a BAR deck.
TheDeuce, I like what you're saying, but IMO, I don't think it's changing the game. You know what card changed the game: Firestarter Blaziken. It gave Aquapolis Exeggutor power (for a limited time) it's giving Expedition Tales power, it's giving Rayquaza EX power, and it's now giving Blaziken EX some power.
Some of you may think: Blaziken has 100 HP! Blaziken EX can KO it. Let me play a BAR deck, too! If that's what you'll do, I should respect that. But I don't want to.
And if you want to look into the future, you know what I'll say.
But some people are saying ban it forever? No way. If it's until States, sure, whatever. I just don't think it's changing the game. Surely your opponent won't have two Blaziken EX pumped up, one right after the other? If this has happened, then you're screwed. Because it probably won't happen. They pick off about one or maybe even two pokemon with Volcanic Ash, so here's what you've gotta do: KO the Blaziken EX before he KOs you.Remember, Blazy EX is worth two prizes. And please don't play Whishcash.
Wooper
mozartrules
New Member
SuperWooper said:
Banning it until states would have no effect. One thing is that the first state is in two weeks, but the card isn't evn allowed in the CCs this weekend and next.
There is probably no need for an infinete ban, but it would be nice with one until Blastoise EX comes out!
FireFighter095ReBorn
New Member
Hey everyone i got to see some good arguemnets and i think this is what should happen for a topic like this to have a happy ending. Blaziken ex should run through states and if it has an effect of haymaker and unstoppible then we should let nintendo ban it but if there are ways to defend against it then we shoudl allow it to cross the threshold into nationals. Thats just my opinion on this delecate subject
Pidgeotto Trainer
New Member
By nationals, Blastoise ex might be out and then Blaziken ex probably won't be broken. I still don't want states to get dominated like this.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
"Might"? Boy, with how things have been going on around here, they'd be crazy not to have him out by the next set. Milotic will be around, for almost certain, but ya never know about turtle boy...
Gollee, a new set jut came out couple weeks ago, and we already need predictions on the NEXT set's contents...that's the only thing I'm truly worried about when it comes to BEX: Not enjoying the game, one set at a time!
Gollee, a new set jut came out couple weeks ago, and we already need predictions on the NEXT set's contents...that's the only thing I'm truly worried about when it comes to BEX: Not enjoying the game, one set at a time!
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posted by Shdwchu
Also, Skyridge Ditto will OHKO Rayquaza Ex as well as the lesser played Suicue Ex, Latias Ex, Latios Ex, Dragnite Ex, Raichu Ex and can take out Sneasel Ex. Of course the down side is that poor ol' 50 HP Ditto will not last if you do not OHKO these guys. Against an energy starved Blaziken Ex, of course Ditto could take out a benched Pokemon, but then after that he better run and hide, or use Pokemon Nurse, etc.
Yes, Alakazam would work. I have an Alakazam/Ditto deck that's a lot fun to play against ex's. Also, Alakazam will OHKO Gardevoir EX.
Also, Skyridge Ditto will OHKO Rayquaza Ex as well as the lesser played Suicue Ex, Latias Ex, Latios Ex, Dragnite Ex, Raichu Ex and can take out Sneasel Ex. Of course the down side is that poor ol' 50 HP Ditto will not last if you do not OHKO these guys. Against an energy starved Blaziken Ex, of course Ditto could take out a benched Pokemon, but then after that he better run and hide, or use Pokemon Nurse, etc.
Pidgeotto Trainer
New Member
Yes, because Blaziken ex will just ko Alakazam on the bench. You would need 2 out and DRE in your hand. Or 2 Abra and Rare Candy, Alakazam and DRE in your hand. Or keep in your hand Abra, Alakazam, Candy and DRE AND get it to the active AND make sure your opponent has Rayquaza out. Its not easy at all. And yes Ditto can copy all sorts of things but he has only 50 HP and to me the big downside is he will eat up just as much energy. (and much more likely of being ko'd right after.)
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
no, you don't. I've been playtesting the deck for weeks, and know that if they're without a ray or not running it at ALL (ie niniken ex), just a attach an energy to both. Then, when they discard for the attack (they'll have 2 energy CARDS on the BEX, most likely), attach DRE, and deal 150 with Syncroblast. Take that, sucka!!
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