HGSS-on BearPlume

[Stuart Hayden]

Some people from another forum suggested this build.

Pokemon:
Cleffa
Jirachi
2 Zekrom
2-2 Zoroark (B/W)
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
3-3 Beartick (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume (UD)

T/s/S
2 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
3 PONT
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 PETM

Energy
4 Rainbow Energy
4 DCE
7 Water

+1-1-0 on Vileplume line in case they get sniped
+Jirachi for countering other Vilepumes and Yanmega's.
-TRT because they weren't really needed.
- 1 PONT for +1 Collector for consistency.

 

[ShiningLion]

I got to play test mine a couple times. My lineup has been pretty successful so far, but also tedious to use. I think you may be right that TRT was not entirely needed. Judge is great because it knocks them down to 4 new cards and kind of foils their plans, but even with only 4 cards in hand they can have some draw power, especially if running Magnezone or Ninetales. TRT wasn't necessary, especially with Slowking Set up. I may change mine out for something else too.

Question about Jirachi. I like the idea, but how are you going to attach energies to him? His pokepower only works with psychic energies and Rainbow Energies are not considered as all types until they are in play, so can you even search for them with this power? Is the discard pile considered "in play"? You need one psychic energy on him first, plus another energy for each Pokemon you plan to devolve. That's not going to help against Yanmega unless you can spare a couple turns to put some energies on him while he's on the bench, and even then it will only buy you one turn, or he'll get sniped before you can use him (especially if you're using rainbow energies on him)

 

[chrataxe]

TRT is like the ultimate theorymon card: it ALWAYS sounds good until you actually try it.....then it NEVER works.

The less pokemon you run, the more consistent you become. You are making yourself run extra cards you don't need, just to let yourself play cards you don't need. If a card doesn't fit, don't force it (Zoroark). If it does, don't force the extras with it (Special Dark). And, do not sacrifice consistency for disruption, it NEVER works.

 

[ShiningLion]

i kid you not politoad is a necessary card because mew/vileplume/yanmega is nasty and you want to stay ahead of them at all times but these are my suggestions on what you should change also plz update your original post if you havent updated your changes.

Have you tried 1-1 Dodrio instead of Politoed? It won't free retreat beartic, but it will free retreat everything else in the deck and give Beartic a retreat cost of 1. It's stage 1 and faster by far than Politoed.

Just a thought. I haven't tried either yet, as I don't plan to use Beartic AT ALL if I see a Yanmega. That's why my zoroarks and Zekroms are in there. I'd only use Beartic if everything else useful got KO'd and i had no other option.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

I got to play test mine a couple times. My lineup has been pretty successful so far, but also tedious to use. I think you may be right that TRT was not entirely needed. Judge is great because it knocks them down to 4 new cards and kind of foils their plans, but even with only 4 cards in hand they can have some draw power, especially if running Magnezone or Ninetales. TRT wasn't necessary, especially with Slowking Set up. I may change mine out for something else too.

Question about Jirachi. I like the idea, but how are you going to attach energies to him? His pokepower only works with psychic energies and Rainbow Energies are not considered as all types until they are in play, so can you even search for them with this power? Is the discard pile considered "in play"? You need one psychic energy on him first, plus another energy for each Pokemon you plan to devolve. That's not going to help against Yanmega unless you can spare a couple turns to put some energies on him while he's on the bench, and even then it will only buy you one turn, or he'll get sniped before you can use him (especially if you're using rainbow energies on him)

His power is optional. You don't have to use it. And it was just a suggested build. I wasn't really planning on using it (aside from dropping TRT)

This is the build I'm currently thinking of

Pokemon
Cleffa
2 Zekrom
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume

TSS
2 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 PONT
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 PETM

Energy
4 DCE
4 Rainbow
9 Water

 

[ShiningLion]

The less pokemon you run, the more consistent you become. You are making yourself run extra cards you don't need, just to let yourself play cards you don't need.

There have been a handful of decks to win Worlds that were designed to have options rather than consistency. Ross Cawthon's deck this year (2nd in Worlds) had 27 pokemon so that he could pull what he needed for a specific situation, so consistency is not always what wins the game. His Trainer list was very erratic compared to most. There were several cards he only employed 1 or 2 of instead of a set of 3 or 4. I also don't agree that more pokemon = less consistency. Some of the poke-powers and abilities out there are just as vital as trainer cards. It just depends on your deck and what you're attempting to do with it.

This game isn't all about winning anyway, it's about creativity and fun. And personally I think a deck with options is a lot more fun than a deck with a formula you drill through every time you play.

Yes, ultimately the more trainers you play the quicker you get set up, but, this deck is going to be minced meat against Yanmega without some support from other pokemon. Beartic and Zekrom are simply not good enough attackers against Yanmega to handle it alone.

---------- Post added 09/02/2011 at 03:40 AM ----------

His power is optional. You don't have to use it. And it was just a suggested build. I wasn't really planning on using it (aside from dropping TRT)

This is the build I'm currently thinking of

Pokemon
Cleffa
2 Zekrom
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume

TSS
2 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 PONT
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 PETM

Energy
4 DCE
4 Rainbow
9 Water

I like the consistency of your build. I think your version is the more consistent one, and mine gives more options for different matchups. These seem like two polar ideas and I think it would be exciting to play both and see how well they do. I'll probably try a build closer to yours at some point just to see how it treats me.

Oh, and when you post your deck lists do you think you could add the total number in each group next to the group heading (energy, pokemon, trainers)? I just find that very helpful in getting an overall view of the deck. Would help me out a lot, actually if you can! :thumb:

 

[Stuart Hayden]

[/COLOR]

I like the consistency of your build. I think your version is the more consistent one, and mine gives more options for different matchups. These seem like two polar ideas and I think it would be exciting to play both and see how well they do. I'll probably try a build closer to yours at some point just to see how it treats me.

Oh, and when you post your deck lists do you think you could add the total number in each group next to the group heading (energy, pokemon, trainers)? I just find that very helpful in getting an overall view of the deck. Would help me out a lot, actually if you can! :thumb:

No problem.


Pokemon (22)
Cleffa
2 Zekrom
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume

TSS (21)
2 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 PONT
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 PETM

Energy (17)
4 DCE
4 Rainbow
9 Water

I really wish Pokemon would allow side decks.

 

[ShiningLion]

What are side decks?

On a side note, after some testing, I realized I could use more water energy to use Icicle crash, so I added one and took out a special darkness. I am still holding onto just one special darkness for the potential to OHKO zekroms and reshirams. I'm not sure I wanna let that slip away. If I didn't have Twins to find that special darkness energy I'd say one wouldn't be worth it and throw them out altogether for more waters.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

What are side decks?

On a side note, after some testing, I realized I could use more water energy to use Icicle crash, so I added one and took out a special darkness. I am still holding onto just one special darkness for the potential to OHKO zekroms and reshirams. I'm not sure I wanna let that slip away. If I didn't have Twins to find that special darkness energy I'd say one wouldn't be worth it and throw them out altogether for more waters.

It's a set amount of cards (usually 15) that you can swap in for cards from your main deck in between matches.
So say my 4th Beartic was dead weight in a certain match or I had trouble retreating. I could swap out 1-1 Beartic line for 1-1 Dodrio before the next match.

Pretty much every TCG except pokemon allows them

 

[ShiningLion]

It's a set amount of cards (usually 15) that you can swap in for cards from your main deck in between matches.
So say my 4th Beartic was dead weight in a certain match or I had trouble retreating. I could swap out 1-1 Beartic line for 1-1 Dodrio before the next match.

Pretty much every TCG except pokemon allows them

Makes sense to me. I guess they expect us to do a lot of testing before tournaments. Though I've heard of people throwing together decks a week or two before them and doing well, surprisingly. I doubt that happens often.

Also I dropped my special darks both for more water... lol

 

[Stuart Hayden]

Posted the deck on Pokebeach and even though only a few people posted this is what they came up with.

Pokemon (21)
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (24)
3 Cheren
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Communication
3 Pokemon Collector
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (15)
4 Rainbow Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
7 Water Energy

 

[ShiningLion]

Posted the deck on Pokebeach and even though only a few people posted this is what they came up with.

I think the Pokemon Communications are impractical because as soon as Vileplume is set up they are dead weight. I have had no problem with my current build getting my Pokemon evolved quickly. Also the suggested build they gave you has no setup pokemon like Cleffa or Pichu. It's almost crucial that you use something like them to setup so they can KO it and let you use Twins as soon as possible.

One thing I wonder though is whether Copycat might work better than Judge. This deck congests the opponent's hand with lots of trainer cards they can't play, so Copycat might help you to pick up some extra cards and get to what you're trying to draw quicker. Once you've got them trainer locked and can control their draw power with Second Sight, Judge actually gives them a chance to refresh and grab a draw power Supporter that might get them out of the bind they're in. So it could work against you.

On the other hand, for decks with a lot of built in draw power like Ninetales, the Judge card can be a nice way to disrupt them and knock them down to size. Second Sight won't do you any good against Ninetales, because it doesn't matter what order you put their top three cards in, they'll get to draw all three if they want to.

But still I wonder which will be better for this deck... Judge or Copycat?

I went with more Judges simply because there are already 4 PONTS, and Copycat is similar in effect. Judge does give you an edge if you want to knock down your opponent's hand. I may go with 2 Copycats and 2 Judge for a while and see if that helps.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

Yeah. I will probably drop a Communications for Cleffa. Cause I don't like not running it. And the communications are good to get your vileplume out faster or set up a second beartic before dropping your vileplume. (Though you could just search for them with Oddish...iunno, I'll play test)

As for copycat. I'm not exactly sure. If you know they are hand locked it might be okay. But at the same time, once you have BearPlume out your hand will stay consistent because you won't be dropping anything except for the occasional energy on your second beartic or something.

I'm thinking something like this

Pokemon (22)
1 Cleffa
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (23)
2 Pokemon Communication
3 Cheren
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (15)
4 Rainbow Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
7 Water Energy

I will play test and see how often I use the communications. But if they end up dead weight I will likely do
-2 Communications
+1 Cheren
+ 1 Water Energy

 

[ShiningLion]

Oh, I forgot to mention. I've been using Professor Elm's Training method instead of the Communications and those have done pretty well. I have 3. You might try that out if it doesn't work with Communication.

 

[Stuart Hayden]

I will likely go that route actually. I don't need max Cheron really.

 

[PvtArellano]

My friend let me barrow his magneboar deck today for a tourney and I had a really tough time against this deck its actually pretty good
Posted with Mobile style...

 

[Stuart Hayden]

Did some switching around.

Pokemon (22)
1 Cleffa
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (22)
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Pokemon Communication
3 Rare Candy Professor
3 Pokemon Collector
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (16)
4 Rainbow Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
8 Water Energy

Seems a lot more consistent. I'll be able to do some more play testing this Sunday at league.
What I changed:
-3 Cheren
+2 POTM
+1 Water Energy

Depending on how the Pokemon Communications play out I may do -2 PC and +2 Cheren

 

[Stuart Hayden]

I totally screwed up my build. it actually looks like this:

Pokemon (24)
1 Cleffa
2-2 Zoroark (B/w)
2-2 Slowking (HGSS)
4-4 Beartic (Sheer Cold)
3-2-2 Vileplume (UD)

T/S/S (20)
2 Pokemon Communication
3 Rare Candy
3 Pokemon Collector
4 Judge
4 Twins
4 Professor Oak's New Theory

Energy (16)
4 Rainbow Energy
4 Double Colorless Energy
8 Water Energy

I may change the entire deck style. I've been play testing it for a few hours and I'm getting so many dead draws its ridiculous.

 

[YouAreHere]

its slowking
it maybe only stage 1
but its a horrible pokemon when drawing it as a basic xD
maybe:
1 cleffa
2-2 zoroak
2-2 slowking
3-3 beartic
2-2-2 vileplume
1-1 Reuniclus
2 pokemon communication
3 rare candy
3 pokemon collector
4 judge
3 twins
4 pont
2 seeker

4 rainbow
4 dce
8 water energy

doesnt draw much better but it works fine

 

[Stuart Hayden]

the 3-2-2 Vileplume line is in case an oddish gets sniped early. and beartic needs to run 4-4 since it's the main attacker and it needs to be out asap.
I plan on taking Slowking out altogether when the new Cobalion comes out; if not sooner since it's been more or less dead weight every game.

I'm doing some more play testing tomorrow at League.

What I'm actually thinking right now is
- 2 Slowpoke
- 2 Slowking
+1 Zekrom: Back up attacker, anti-Yanmega or Jirachi for anti-Vileplume, Gothitelle...etc.
+ 1 Vileplume (Undaunted): For consistency
+2 Cheren: I need straight forward draw power that isn't shuffle hand into deck and draw X or discard hand and draw x.

If I added Jirachi I'd drop 1 or 2 W Energy for Psychic Energy.

---------- Post added 09/11/2011 at 04:57 PM ----------

Play tested it for about 4 hours today against about 6 different people. The deck went undefeated but the Slowking line killed a lot of the speed in the deck. So I think for now i'm going to

-2 Slowpoke
-2 Slowking
+1 Vileplume
+3 Catcher

We'll see how that plays out.

Cleffa didn't do anything in anygame I played (out of all the games I played I drew Cleffa once) so I may drop Cleffa as well for something.