Been out of the loop for a while, but something caught my eye.
- Thread starter Nick15
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Rulemaster
New Member
whatup 15, havent seen you post for awhile. the delta species pokemon are different types, or have dual types, that arent what their usual types are.
RainbowRichards
Active Member
Nick15 said:
Didn't see them on a certain German site? Or at Pokebeach??
Yep, the latest set from Japan has WEIRD types - flyers of type Lightning (still weak to Lightning), water Pokemon of type Fire!!
They were created by the scientists of Holon (Horon) - borne of their evil, twisted technology (well, maybe not evil :lol
.You'll notice that many of the holos are dual type with Metal, as well.
It's the Delta Species Pokemon...
Professor_Chris
Active Member
I'm not sure I'd call it just a gimmick yet.Nick15 said:Oh, I see... so it's just a gimmic.
Didn't see them on a certain German site? Or at Pokebeach??
No, at my old, super secret source where I got all those spoilers from back in the day.
Light Pokemon were just a gimmick.
Crystal Pokemon were just a gimmick.
React energy was just a gimmick.
Gym Leader Pokemon were just a gimmick.
Delta Species looks like they might be around to stay since we're getting at least 3 sets (Delta Species, Holon Phantom, Miracle Crystal) entirely based off them. They'll probably stick around at least until the beginning of Diamond/Pearl and then maybe later we'll get some 4th gen delta species. So, I'd equate Delta Species more with Dark Pokemon. Though, honestly, I was hoping Delta Species would take the place of Dark Pokemon (The name "Holon Phantom" initially made me think of this) and we'd get Pokemon that are their normal type (or a weird one) plus Dark type to make them more playable with their other evolutions and versions (particularly Stage 2s).
Nick15
Member
Professor_Chris
Delta Species looks like they might be around to stay since we're getting at least 3 sets (Delta Species, Holon Phantom, Miracle Crystal) entirely based off them.
If Magic has taught me anything, it's that just because the designers make a lot of a special card type, it doesn't mean it's here to stay. I mean, for you Magic folk, when was the last all-Creature set you can think of? Or heck, what about Banding?
I dunno... I kinda figured the game's designers were out of ideas when they started to make ex Pokemon. Changing their types seems to be equally... uhm.. "out of idea"-ish, basically a gimmic. I've always frowned upon superficial changes to the game like, well, changing their type, and have felt that better cards would sell the set itself. But then again, I'm not trying to sell a game, so I don't know what will get people to buy them.
[shrugs]
React Energy
[looks it up on GIS] ... They made a single colorless energy card? [blinks] What else happened since FR/LG?
Delta Species looks like they might be around to stay since we're getting at least 3 sets (Delta Species, Holon Phantom, Miracle Crystal) entirely based off them.
If Magic has taught me anything, it's that just because the designers make a lot of a special card type, it doesn't mean it's here to stay. I mean, for you Magic folk, when was the last all-Creature set you can think of? Or heck, what about Banding?
I dunno... I kinda figured the game's designers were out of ideas when they started to make ex Pokemon. Changing their types seems to be equally... uhm.. "out of idea"-ish, basically a gimmic. I've always frowned upon superficial changes to the game like, well, changing their type, and have felt that better cards would sell the set itself. But then again, I'm not trying to sell a game, so I don't know what will get people to buy them.
[shrugs]
React Energy
[looks it up on GIS] ... They made a single colorless energy card? [blinks] What else happened since FR/LG?
ZoraJolteon
New Member
The only major thing not mentioned so far is there are now cards that are both Pokémon and Energy cards. Their names always begin with "Holon's"
ninetales1234
<a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p
I have felt that way for a long time. They may as well just name each new set: "EX- we're running low on ideas for new cards."Nick15 said:
I think it would be great if they could focus on making sets that change the game and add new strategy without having to invent new "types" of cards like δ Pokemon and Dual-type Pokemon that make no sense. Now, I can see why they came up with Supporters and Pokemon-EX (I don't see that as being the kind of thing that just screams, "OMG we ran out of good ideas! Please accept this strange new game mechanic (ie. δ Pokemon, React Energy) until we can come up with something good."). They wanted to make Pokemon that were super-powerful with a disadvantage that wasn't some restrictive Poke-body. Also, they wanted the game to be less of "Trainermon" and more about Pokemon, so they restricted the amount of good trainers people would use by makeing the really good ones supporters.
Don't get me wrong, I will play Pokemon forever; It's my favorite game. The current Modified metagame appears to be very diverse and PUI is doing a good job keeping it that way. I just think they should keep the game fun and diverse without adding so many strange characteristics to it. If they keep this up too long, we may be seing "Gothic", "Love", and "Radioactive" cards.
The card "types" are fine the way they are. Having nine colors of Pokemon (Colorless, Water, Fire, Gras, Lightning, Fighting, Psychic, Metal, Dark), five types trainers (Stadium, Supporter, TM, Poketool), and six basic energies is enough. They don't need to add any more. After RS, the game was headed in the right direction, but if we see any more of these superficial changes to the game then I think the game is headed in the wrong direction.
Perhaps they should start getting ideas from the fake card community (I'm sure there are plenty of people on the 'gym alone who could come up with some useful and not too broken card ideas). It would also be nice to add some of the older cards to Modified with reprints.
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Professor_Chris
Active Member
Personally, I think the type changes really do bring something new to the table.
The most noteable example I can think of is the upcoming Bellossom d. It is W type and can use the attack of any Bellossom in play. :O We already have a Bellossom that does more damage for 3 Bellossom in play that happens to be weak to fire (which is weak to water, obv). Being able to mix types in your lines really is something neat. Whether it is to cover weakness or help bad match-ups. And making them mixable with normal Pokemon makes this all the more easier. I like the Delta Species mechanic MUCH more than the Dark Pokemon mechanic. It's hard to run say Crobat ex and Dark Crobat while it's much easier to run Crobat ex and Crobat d. So, I think there is more method to the madness than just "we ran out of ideas." However, I do hope we get something a little more innovative from the Diamond/Pearl release.
The most noteable example I can think of is the upcoming Bellossom d. It is W type and can use the attack of any Bellossom in play. :O We already have a Bellossom that does more damage for 3 Bellossom in play that happens to be weak to fire (which is weak to water, obv). Being able to mix types in your lines really is something neat. Whether it is to cover weakness or help bad match-ups. And making them mixable with normal Pokemon makes this all the more easier. I like the Delta Species mechanic MUCH more than the Dark Pokemon mechanic. It's hard to run say Crobat ex and Dark Crobat while it's much easier to run Crobat ex and Crobat d. So, I think there is more method to the madness than just "we ran out of ideas." However, I do hope we get something a little more innovative from the Diamond/Pearl release.
Charizardian
New Member
Nick15 said:
1.EX: Team Rocket Returns is released.
2. Rock-Lock and Dragtrode is invented and own everything.
3. EX: Deoxys is released
4. Thanks to Acid Liability, Everything now is KO'd in one hit.
5. EX: Emerald Released.
6. Medicham ex is considred the greates card ever.
7. Jermy Maron wins worlds with a Nidoqueen deck.
8. EX: Unseen Forces is released.
9. Scizor ex is considred the greatest card ever.
10. EX: Delta Species is released.
11. People get angry about there only being 3 ex's in the set.
12. Mercuy becomes the next DragTrode.
13. EX: Legend Maker is released.
14. Arcanine ex is considred the greates card ever.
There have been some impactful rule changes and cards...
- Startup is run a little differently now (if you win to coin toss, you must go first)
- Fossils in your hand are treated like Basics for the purpose of mulligans. So if you have a handful of Fossils but no Basic, you must start with the Fossil.
- The Holon Voltorb/Electrode and Holon Magnemite/Magneton have mixed things up a bit, being both a Pokemon and Energy. Not exactly like the old Electrode that used a power (Buzzap) to turn into energy.
- Startup is run a little differently now (if you win to coin toss, you must go first)
- Fossils in your hand are treated like Basics for the purpose of mulligans. So if you have a handful of Fossils but no Basic, you must start with the Fossil.
- The Holon Voltorb/Electrode and Holon Magnemite/Magneton have mixed things up a bit, being both a Pokemon and Energy. Not exactly like the old Electrode that used a power (Buzzap) to turn into energy.
Tego
New Member
The only other thing these Pokémon do besides screaming "we ran out of ideas" is that they balance up the types in Pokémon. But that is a reallly important thing. Lightning was rarely played and people never used more than one Metal evolution line in a deck - this has changed now. Looking at it in the big picture, the Delta Pokémon help the game to become more balanced.
ZoraJolteon
New Member
On the other hand though, Holon Phantom managed to make the game even more biased against Grass types than it already is.
ninetales1234
<a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p
And making δ Pokemon was the only way to get people to play more lightning Pokemon? That can't be true...Tego said:
Tego
New Member
It is true. (By "rarely played" I don't mean that people chose no to play Lighting Pokémon, but that there were too few of them available). There are way too few Lightning types among the 386 Pokémon (ever noticed how many versions of Pikachu and Electrode exist?), so they had to make some non-Lighting Pokémon Lightning type to make things more balanced (Dragonite, Metagross). There are so few Lighting (and Metal) Pokémon in each regular expansion that it isn't even funny. And if the are any Lighting Pokémon, they're guaranteed to already have been printed in a recent set.
I still don't like the Delta Pokémon idea, though. I just understand how this helps adding more Metal and Lighting Pokémon into the game.
I still don't like the Delta Pokémon idea, though. I just understand how this helps adding more Metal and Lighting Pokémon into the game.
As a non-game design aspect, I'll clear up a small thing.
The Pokemon world is all about exploring and finding new (and sometimes very old) things. Delta Species Pokemon aren't a result of a mad scientist's tinkering (well probably not, I don't want to inhibit new thinking).
There is a small research village called Holon that was researching unique ...energy signatures(?) in the area...over time, they realized that the Pokemon had developed in such a way to adapt...or did the Pokemon change the area? (Chicken or the egg dilemna.) The scientists who investigate the area around Holon try to learn more about the world, through applying their knowledge and their study of the Pokemon around the village.
As far as game play goes, it challenges some standard deck construction ideas...for me personally, I'm always looking for new ideas to explore. (This isn't saying my way is the only way to enjoy the game.)
The Pokemon world is all about exploring and finding new (and sometimes very old) things. Delta Species Pokemon aren't a result of a mad scientist's tinkering (well probably not, I don't want to inhibit new thinking).
There is a small research village called Holon that was researching unique ...energy signatures(?) in the area...over time, they realized that the Pokemon had developed in such a way to adapt...or did the Pokemon change the area? (Chicken or the egg dilemna.) The scientists who investigate the area around Holon try to learn more about the world, through applying their knowledge and their study of the Pokemon around the village.
As far as game play goes, it challenges some standard deck construction ideas...for me personally, I'm always looking for new ideas to explore. (This isn't saying my way is the only way to enjoy the game.)
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