Card sleeve policy CHANGE

[ShadowCard]

This sure sounds like an April fools joke.

I'd like to think that POP would have called "April Fools!" when a third of the player base represented on pokegym (half if you count those who think Pokemon sleeves should be allowed and all other art-backs restricted), based on the current poll results, turned against them.

4) POP/PUI Does not owe us any explination and is doing so as a curtosey(sp) to us.

It's called customer service. Failure to communicate with your customers and satisfy their needs is how places lose business. Where I work, customers prefer driving longer to our store over a closer store of the same company because we have better customer service, but the other store has more products.

Except in this case, they're introduced something unpopular and now they're trying to smooth it over. They don't have to listen to us, but it is in their benefit for the majority of the player base to agree with them.

If you don't like the rules, there is always Magic or Yu-gi-ooooooh.

there's something you never want to say to a customer. That's something I definitely won't be repeating to my league players :nonono: . But I'll keep it in mind; yugioh is still prominent in my area

 

[SteveP]

Couldn't have said it better myself ShadowCard!

Wayne, where'd the POP is "doing their best" comment come from? This argument has nothing to do with that.

"Prevention is better than Redemption"

Sure, but this new policy just prevents players from marking art-backed sleeves. They can STILL mark cards in other ways.

"This new policy makes it easier to detect markings."

Sure, but with no reported markings in the last 4 years, are we really saying, "Markings have occured. We just haven't been able to detect them because of the art-backed sleeves."

 

[spookees]

Wow 13 pages!

Sure glad we banned art backed sleeves here in Az for over a year now.(could be 2 years now)....
Sure there were a few who griped but they understood the reasons why we banned them...

I love some of the art backed sleeves (awesome work!) just not for my Pokemon Decks.

 

[EeveeLover]

Wayne, where'd the POP is "doing their best" comment come from? This argument has nothing to do with that.

I said that because it seems that most here feel that this is being done to inconvinance them and make them buy new sleeves. I'm not happy either, but I would rather take some of the opportunity for cheating out than have someone out there win by doing this. POP/PUI is trying to make it harder for this to happen.

But of course this is like putting locks on the doors "it will keep the honest folk honest and the dishonest folk (and us judges) working harder".

 

[stevensadvice777]

wow,
i can't believe you guys (and gals) are actually this upset over having to use solid color sleeves...i love the artwork sleeves but it's no big deal if i can't use them at big tourneys (or little ones for that matter)....it's when they start running a ban list on the cards themselves that i will have issue (thats why i quit yugioh)

i guess if it is that important to you all you should let the powers that be know...but wow, they are just sleeves

 

[DukeFireBird]

I agree. As I've mentioned at least twice, it's an issue of consistancy. I really don't see any problem with the PokeBall sleeves. I don't think that Yasu would hear much kicking and screaming from POP if Japan requested that they be kept in the environment. The biggest trick would be how to word the rules to allow those sleeves specifically.



I think you mean Ultra Pro (I do the same thing all the time). :wink:

I can't really get into specifics about what deal was made with Ultra Pro, as I don't know those details and, if I did, I wouldn't be allowed to talk about it. Honestly, if the PokeBall sleeve issue is reversed, I could see PUI trying to talk Ultra Pro into something similar to those sleeves. As it is, I was looking at doing Professor sleeves, similar to the PokeBall ones, but was unable to get the pricing I was looking for (print run was too small).

So Mike, i take this to mean if Japan REQUESTS that the Poke Ball sleeves be legal, we can use them for Priemere events also?

yay for me going to Japan to talk to them about this...

 

[Daddiursa]

What PUI should be doing is using the 'Gym as a measurement of peoples opinion in this matter. If the artbacked sleeve ban is too controversal, PUI could very well come to this conclusion:

Ok, these sleeves are so important for the players out there that they would rather risk someone cheats with marked sleeves and win something, than playing without their artbacked sleeves.

Cheating amongst players is just as much our concern as PUIs, and - to some degree - we should be allowed to draw the line too, and say "ok, we are loosing more than we are gaining here - don't ban the artbacked sleeves". (Loss = the ability to use cool sleeves at premier events, Gain = we can now assume there will be less cheating, although we aren't sure art-backed sleeves played or will play a significant role in cheating).

I am sure if this was a problem that the player group felt was big, we would be all open for this kind of rule, but there is a limit to how much action you should take based on assumptions.

 

[dld4a]

A. I don’t know if this has been brought up yet, but there is one minor way in which I think this ruling is going to have a negative impact. During WI States I dropped one of my cards when picking up after a game and someone found it and turned it in. Because I had unique sleeves it was recognized right away as mine and returned immediately. Invariably someone will lose a card during a large tournament at some point and having a large variety of sleeves usually makes it much simpler to correctly identify the owner.

B. The main reason this rule has been made is because of the potential inappropriateness of the art on a set of sleeves. As Mike has said, it is not so much what a HJ or TO thinks is inappropriate, but that a parent may think that something is inappropriate when a HJ/TO does not, thereby creating a negative impression of Pokemon in said parent. That combined with the much less relative (nearly non-existent, but hey better safe than sorry) issue of the potential cheating, and it becomes easy to understand why POP would make this decision.

The question is, “Is paragraph A, combined with the potential negative ramifications from current players who are not in favor of this rule, more important than paragraph B?”

For me it is so much not a big deal that I’m not concerned either way.

 

[TheDarkTwins]

I agree. As I've mentioned at least twice, it's an issue of consistancy. I really don't see any problem with the PokeBall sleeves. I don't think that Yasu would hear much kicking and screaming from POP if Japan requested that they be kept in the environment. The biggest trick would be how to word the rules to allow those sleeves specifically.

Does This Mean That If We Have These Sleeves And U were the TO, Would U allow Pokeball Sleeves To Be Allowed?? Just Wondering...

I think you mean Ultra Pro (I do the same thing all the time). :wink:

I can't really get into specifics about what deal was made with Ultra Pro, as I don't know those details and, if I did, I wouldn't be allowed to talk about it. Honestly, if the PokeBall sleeve issue is reversed, I could see PUI trying to talk Ultra Pro into something similar to those sleeves. As it is, I was looking at doing Professor sleeves, similar to the PokeBall ones, but was unable to get the pricing I was looking for (print run was too small).

:frown: :frown: :frown: :frown: :frown:

Drew

Edit - Hey Mike Could U do them but have a bunch of different ones made for Prize Support for the Premier Events??

 

[afirule]

i have never heard of anybody using marked cards EVER

surely a simple check by the head judge/judges of deck sleeves before a tournament would rectify this situation?! in manchester on saturday, the HJ checked my sleeves- three of them were a bit battered and scratched, so she told me to replace them. in the end, everything worked out fine. now, of course in a bigger tournament this could take a while, but surely its better than telling kids and adults alike to discard their favorite sleeves to buy new ones!

if i was a parent, i would most certainly be angry to hear that if my child wnted to play in premier tournament from now on, he or she would have to have entirely new deck sleeves bought in order to play!!

maybe mr liesik, you might suggest in the next player reward shipment, a shipment of these "non marked, opaque, single colourled" sleeves (not a quote, but its what you want....) to replace the deck tin themed ones we all went out and bought from Pokemon USA a few months ago?!

this is ridiculous! give us back our sleeves!

 

[Son of Leod]

So what's "art backed" mean? I've got some with some kinda sparkly things on the back, is that art?

 

[dragonspy900]

-.- now i have to use my penny sleeves. its a good thing i bought them at states

 

[Rulemaster]

Does This Mean That If We Have These Sleeves And U were the TO, Would U allow Pokeball Sleeves To Be Allowed?? Just Wondering...

They said NO ART BACKED SLEEVES...so no, you couldnt use them. its not up to the TO

 

[beatlerat]

And the ones wearing Dark Blue or Red glasses. What are they seeing that I can't. Remember the code books when we (some of older folks) were younger. You could decode messages with the different colored glasses.

Of course I am not saying any one wearing glasses is doing anything wrong....I am more concerned about the rulings during play that will affect the outcome of the match, not whether or not his artwork will.

 

[ninetales1234]

If it was really about inappropriate artwork, I see no reason why you couldn't just let the Head Judges determine whether the artwork is appropriate or not. They all (at least Vince and Derek) know what they're doing and have a good moral thermometer. Why take power away from the head judges to make decisions like this, especially when the alternative is so upsetting to so many people?

I agree with you here. While I've never banned any art-backed sleeves at my non-premiere events and I am against doing it altogether, I think if one is to ban sleeves at his/her event, he/she should apply a simple principle:

Look at the youngest player in the event. Would you expect this image to scare him/her?

this is PUI's fault for making a retarded rule. We spend our money on YOUR sleeves and we can't even use them? Those sleeves are probably paying for quite a few people's paychecks over at PUI, and I'm pretty sure the majority of sleeve purchases are made by players who are in the OP (why else would you buy sleeves?) who will stop buying them. This policy is such a blunder by POP, although, given their recent moves such as reducing the number of Worlds invites to US players and instituting the one and done rule, POP is out to alienate its customer at every turn. This isn't as bad as WotC, but its trending in the wrong direction.

Remember: POP isn't doing us a favor by putting on OP, we're doing them a favor by buying cards and giving them good turnouts for media spots and advertising. I'm not going to lose my job if PUI eliminates its OP, but if PUI alienates its players enough to where they get fed up and quit, at least a few people will lose their jobs. Rules like this are complete bull and annoy even the casual player who goes to events for fun. Think about the 10- kid who won some sleeves at a tournament and is emotionally attached to them because they're "lucky" or something

PUI needs to correct this mistake and stop making more like it.

In addition I love how everyone is just simply IGNORING the fact that the back of a Pokemon TCG card is artwork. What don't you get?! Maybe instead of treating Dave Coleman II like a little child with responses like "What part of 'No' don't you understand?" you guys should be dealing with the inconsistencies and contradictions in your policies.

Ya know, I openly disagree with some of PUI's decisions from time to time, but I think your criticism in this thread is a little too extreme. WOW. You must be pretty angry.

BTW, thanks for that lesson in economics. Because I'm sure PUI has no idea that the selling of cards and the Organized Play program is an equally beneficial exchange. And thanks for reminding them that they need customers in order to stop from going out of business. I bet they had no idea that businesses have to be nice to their customers in order to succeed. What would they do without you, Moss?

Thanks for helping stick it to PUI. Yes, let's fight the oppressor, those big business men who care only about money and will do anything to get it, like alienate us little guys. You tell 'em Moss. Remind them that the purpose of OP is to maintain sales of the cards and they have to please us in order to maintain OP and continue to sell the cards. I tell ya, these guys are out to get us. We can't trust 'em. They're so mean. Good thing somebody's out there reminding them about basic economic principles (like not alienating your customers), because I bet they don't have anyone there with an ounce of customer relations knowledge.

No, nobody has cheated yet, but they're still banning all the Pokemon sleeves people spent money on because someone COULD cheat.

Funny, they don't allow sleeves because someone could cheat and hasn't, but they allow those hollowed-out engraved coins that are so blatently rigged. Its such a joke.

On a more serious note, has anyone done any scientific research on the fairness of these Pokémon coins? I haven’t noticed anything unfair about them. Just curious…

 

[LittlePichu]

oh well rules are rules, and they do have good point on the marking of the card with Art-backs. lol But it is kinda hard to find decented lastlonging, Sleeve that are Solded, Snice the styal of these pass years were hologram and Art-Backs. I know our leageu store doesn't sells Solded ones the last time I was there -.-

oh Well

 

[Myn_donos]

I really hope this is a late April Fools joke....

you and me both 'pop... you and me both :nonono:


Also.. i have sleeves(flat black) that i used ALL THE TIME, they have become faded and scratched, i looked at the ones i used for storing cards in my binder and they are shiney, they look brand new(despite being 8 years old). when one broke, i had to pull one from these prestine sleeves. and when i was shuffling it was clearly evident that it was the new sleeve. is this also going to be banned? that if a sleeve breaks, we cant use a sleeve from the same box because it has less wear and tear on it, and is thus marked???

 

[NoPoke]

Also.. i have sleeves(flat black) that i used ALL THE TIME, they have become faded and scratched, i looked at the ones i used for storing cards in my binder and they are shiney, they look brand new(despite being 8 years old). when one broke, i had to pull one from these prestine sleeves. and when i was shuffling it was clearly evident that it was the new sleeve. is this also going to be banned? that if a sleeve breaks, we cant use a sleeve from the same box because it has less wear and tear on it, and is thus marked???

even under the old rules that sleeve would be considered marked.

 

[jayh272416]

Hey, how about my shiny red and shiny green???

 

[NoPoke]

On a more serious note, has anyone done any scientific research on the fairness of these Pokémon coins? I haven’t noticed anything unfair about them. Just curious…

Yes I did. Its very easy, have a look at the edge profile. Its tapered. Then Roll one on a flat surface. It will always roll with a lean so that it falls tails.

However the coins don't have to be fair. PUI's rules say that their coins are to be considered as fair. Which isn't the same thing at all.